Moral Question...

[Lups]

Originally Posted by P1et

I hope your kid and the mother of your child read this one day.

I actually get his point too. Suddenly to be locked away inside the house with a witch is not bad enough, if the baby only sleeps it seems pretty pointless but even with everything being a routine already I would not risk my balls (haha) by even trying to sneak a car into the equation.

I didn't have lows with any of the kids, but when my son was born with hemifacial microsomia (missing an ear, jaw is not growing correctly), waiting the first night for the brain scans, heart ultrasound, the nurse telling me she was sorry that happened, I was so angry my hubby actually kept people away from me because he feared I'd kill someone for saying anything stupid.

He brought me a laptop and I studied all night and was prepared for the mornings exams (oh well, tests).

Yesterday was his fifth birthday. Probably one of the hardest days every year in my life since I still am not over of all the stuff that happened that first year. Personal favorite by far is the mantra I sometimes still wakeup chanting. "in order to know, you need all the bad news there is. The bad eliminates the worst and with that we pick the next fight". Charming lol.

We had no warning of anything being off. Every damn scan was done and if we exclude my adrenaline habits, everything went by the book during the whole wait. Sure the chances of this happening to others are small, but from experience I truly would not take the risk of not having the time to be there.

This thread was originally in our segment of the forum and I truly believe meant just for fun. As far as I remember, the op is one of the good guys.

[P1]

Originally Posted by Lups

I actually get his point too. Suddenly to be locked away inside the house with a witch is not bad enough, if the baby only sleeps it seems pretty pointless but even with everything being a routine already I would not risk my balls (haha) by even trying to sneak a car into the equation.

I didn't have lows with any of the kids, but when my son was born with hemifacial microsomia (missing an ear, jaw is not growing correctly), waiting the first night for the brain scans, heart ultrasound, the nurse telling me she was sorry that happened, I was so angry my hubby actually kept people away from me because he feared I'd kill someone for saying anything stupid.

He brought me a laptop and I studied all night and was prepared for the mornings exams (oh well, tests).

Yesterday was his fifth birthday. Probably one of the hardest days every year in my life since I still am not over of all the stuff that happened that first year. Personal favorite by far is the mantra I sometimes still wakeup chanting. "in order to know, you need all the bad news there is. The bad eliminates the worst and with that we pick the next fight". Charming lol.

We had no warning of anything being off. Every damn scan was done and if we exclude my adrenaline habits, everything went by the book during the whole wait. Sure the chances of this happening to others are small, but from experience I truly would not take the risk of not having the time to be there.

This thread was originally in our segment of the forum and I truly believe meant just for fun. As far as I remember, the op is one of the good guys.

I don't get his point and don't agree with him. His (assumed) wife just went through 9 months of being pregnant, and just gave birth to HIS son or daughter. And here he's complaining about being bored after a week. How disrespectful. Being a new father myself, I understand there is little a man can do for the baby. But he can do everything for his wife.

I'm sorry to hear what you had to go through with your son. I hope he had a wonderful fifth birthday though

[Sara]

Originally Posted by Lups

I actually get his point too. Suddenly to be locked away inside the house with a witch is not bad enough, if the baby only sleeps it seems pretty pointless but even with everything being a routine already I would not risk my balls (haha) by even trying to sneak a car into the equation.

I didn't have lows with any of the kids, but when my son was born with hemifacial microsomia (missing an ear, jaw is not growing correctly), waiting the first night for the brain scans, heart ultrasound, the nurse telling me she was sorry that happened, I was so angry my hubby actually kept people away from me because he feared I'd kill someone for saying anything stupid.

He brought me a laptop and I studied all night and was prepared for the mornings exams (oh well, tests).

Yesterday was his fifth birthday. Probably one of the hardest days every year in my life since I still am not over of all the stuff that happened that first year. Personal favorite by far is the mantra I sometimes still wakeup chanting. "in order to know, you need all the bad news there is. The bad eliminates the worst and with that we pick the next fight". Charming lol.

We had no warning of anything being off. Every damn scan was done and if we exclude my adrenaline habits, everything went by the book during the whole wait. Sure the chances of this happening to others are small, but from experience I truly would not take the risk of not having the time to be there.

This thread was originally in our segment of the forum and I truly believe meant just for fun. As far as I remember, the op is one of the good guys.

Happy Birthday to your little one.

During my pregnancy I did the genetic testing and came back with the horrible news that I carry a gene for SMA. My ex wouldnt let them test his blood to see if he carried the same gene. My whole pregnancy I was terrified my baby would inherit the genes and be born with this disease.

There's only a 25% chance that your child will not inherit and be "normal." The good news is though BOTH parents have to have this trait in order for it to show. So even though I have this gene, as long as my partner does not, we will never have to worry.


I almost did not want to have baby shower because I was scared I was going to have a baby that wouldnt live long.

For those who dont know what SMA is,

"Spinal Muscular Atrophy (SMA) destroys the nerves responsible for controlling voluntary muscle movement, but does not affect intelligence. Muscles that control breathing, swallowing, head and neck control, walking, and crawling are the most severely affected."

[Lups]

Originally Posted by P1et

I don't get his point and don't agree with him. His (assumed) wife just went through 9 months of being pregnant, and just gave birth to HIS son or daughter. And here he's complaining about being bored after a week. How disrespectful. Being a new father myself, I understand there is little a man can do for the baby. But he can do everything for his wife.

I'm sorry to hear what you had to go through with your son. I hope he had a wonderful fifth birthday though

One of my best friends broke his toe two days after their second son was born. He literally cried in pain and whined about his sad fate while the wife had had hours of agony after 9 months of hell. She and I are as good with hormones so we both spent the whole time in the toilet if we even smelled any sort of food.

I probably haven't said this, but all I've read you posting here, I've always thought you are an exceptional man, a true rarity. Some men will never view the world as you do and they will never understand why the lovely kitten they married turns into a witch. I have nothing but respect for you because all this, you lead by example. Others will read this thread on their way to the marriage council and think to themselves you could've saved them the effort by writing this all sooner.

My son is fine. After all the heart scares, waiting for the signs of microtia merely being an extra and not the main problem, years of going through every mistake I could've made while pregnant and sorting the guilt that comes with the knowledge it was a simple virus and a bad luck that caused it, blowing up every time someone thinks less of him because his condition, I still consider myself the luckiest person alive to have him in my life.

[gtron]

dude... it's her third kid, she's on autopilot now. first-timer's are hypersensitive to everything.

wait for the car, it'll treat you better than the kid.

ps- i have no kids. i like cars better.

pps- i reserve the right to retract this post if i ever decide to have kids. haha

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by gtron

dude... it's her third kid, she's on autopilot now. first-timer's are hypersensitive to everything.

wait for the car, it'll treat you better than the kid.

ps- i have no kids. i like cars better.

pps- i reserve the right to retract this post if i ever decide to have kids. haha

Now you can't it's been quoted!

[Sara]

Originally Posted by gtron

wait for the car, it'll treat you better than the kid.

So when you're old and lying in your hospice bed your car isnt going to do shit. It's your children who will be lying in that bed with you, holding you, kissing you, holding your hand and giving you all their love.


OP, you better be there for your childs first few weeks of life, because I guarantee you they will be there for your last.

[grieverr]

Sara504 What reason did the father give for not wanting to get tested? That's pretty selfish on his part. Was he not interested in a possible condition the baby may have had?

I happily did every test and scan I could, even though people told me not to because in the end "it doesn't matter how the baby comes out, youll still love it". And that is true, but I'd still want to know!

On topic: I have 2 kids and they are my life. I constantly tease my wife and tell her I'm going to be a stay at home dad, since she enjoys her work and gets stressed dealing with the kids when I'm not around. In contrast, I'd take a bad day with my kids over a good day at work any time.
However, I think some of you may be jumping to the conclusion that the OP wants to abandon his wife in preference for a car. It may not be that serious.

Xtabi , I guess it really depends on how old your other kids are and how much support your wife will have. Will there be a mother-in-law or sister around to help? Are your other kids old enough to help as well?

To answer the question, yes, I think it's morally wrong to take paternity time for a car. Your company is one of the few that seems to value a father's worth, and you're gonna take advantage of that to pick up a car?!

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by minn19

That is really really sad in a lot of ways.

I took two months off when our daughter was born and it was one of the best things I've ever done in my life.

Hear, hear! I took the full time off with both my kids and it was the greatest thing i've ever done in my life. As my son heads off to prep school for hockey in 3 months I miss those days. It flies by. I'd do anything to have those 2+ weeks again with my infant son and daughter.

Originally Posted by Lups

She'll just kill you if she sees even this thread.

Seriously. Divorce or Death will be in your future...quickly. And you may pray for the latter.

Listen, while I disagree with his thought process, I tend to understand it. We guys get these "great" ideas that upon initial thought sound like they are no-brainers. In reality, they are bad bad bad ideas that never should have seen the light of day. Usually a bit of reflection reveals this.

Choosing to forgo that parental time-off so you can use it later to do a European Delivery may SOUND in your head like a good idea, but hell man.....it's not. And your wife will NOT think so. If she says ok to it, don't kid yourself, you'll be paying for that decision for the rest of your life. She will not let you forget it.

Originally Posted by gtron

dude... it's her third kid, she's on autopilot now. first-timer's are hypersensitive to everything.

wait for the car, it'll treat you better than the kid.

ps- i have no kids. i like cars better.

pps- i reserve the right to retract this post if i ever decide to have kids. haha

Spoken truly by someone who has no kids.....and trust me, if you keep that perspective, you'll continue that trend. You'll have no choice in the matter.

Tell a woman after having any number of kids that they just go into "autopilot" and you'll have one less working testicle.

Incidentally, kids are great. They change your life in multitudes of ways you cannot even imagine. And yes, I like cars too.

[Sara]

Originally Posted by grieverr

Sara504 What reason did the father give for not wanting to get tested? That's pretty selfish on his part. Was he not interested in a possible condition the baby may have had?

I happily did every test and scan I could, even though people told me not to because in the end "it doesn't matter how the baby comes out, youll still love it". And that is true, but I'd still want to know!

On topic: I have 2 kids and they are my life. I constantly tease my wife and tell her I'm going to be a stay at home dad, since she enjoys her work and gets stressed dealing with the kids when I'm not around. In contrast, I'd take a bad day with my kids over a good day at work any time.
However, I think some of you may be jumping to the conclusion that the OP wants to abandon his wife in preference for a car. It may not be that serious.

OP, I guess it really depends on how old your other kids are and how much support your wife will have. Will there be a mother in law or sister around to help? Are your other kids old enough to help as well?

To answer the question, yes, I think it's morally wrong to take paternity time to go for a ED. Your company is one of the few that seems to value a father's worth, and you're gonna take advantage of that to pick up a car?!

Honestly, because he's an asshole.

He didnt go with me for my first appointment. He only went to one scan, the down syndrome scan to "make sure our baby was normal." He was disappointed in that scan because the technician told us I was carrying a girl and he didnt want a daughter. He wanted a son. After that scan was over was when I got the results that I carried the SMA gene and it would be wise to test him to see if he had it too so we would know what our options were and if our baby would be at risk. Regardless, he wouldnt go because he was a dick. Either way I would have loved her anyway. He wasnt even there when I gave birth to her. Why? Because Sales Manager meetings are more important to him to be in attendance for. I labored and gave birth without him there. He strolls in the hospital an hour after she was born and wants to hold her? No way. Get away from me.
You can see why I had extreme post pardon depression. I live in a two story home with the upstairs open to below layout. I had many thoughts of throwing myself over the railing and visions of hanging my self with an internet cable from the chandelier in the foyer. It was awful the first two months. I cried non stop. Now I look back and cant believe I ever thought those things but it's really true about how depressing it can be.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Sara504

Happy Birthday to your little one.

During my pregnancy I did the genetic testing and came back with the horrible news that I carry a gene for SMA. My ex wouldnt let them test his blood to see if he carried the same gene. My whole pregnancy I was terrified my baby would inherit the genes and be born with this disease.

There's only a 25% chance that your child will not inherit and be "normal." The good news is though BOTH parents have to have this trait in order for it to show. So even though I have this gene, as long as my partner does not, we will never have to worry.


I almost did not want to have baby shower because I was scared I was going to have a baby that wouldnt live long.

For those who dont know what SMA is,

"Spinal Muscular Atrophy (SMA) destroys the nerves responsible for controlling voluntary muscle movement, but does not affect intelligence. Muscles that control breathing, swallowing, head and neck control, walking, and crawling are the most severely affected."

I think you got the worse fate. I had no idea anything was wrong so I just went on with the life during the pregnancy. It takes more strength to go through the what if's beforehand than what I did.

Nothing prepares the future parents to all the things they could have to face and when something does go wrong, every damn thing in the world is heavier to carry. When we adjust to the new realities in our world, we find the pieces in us that were missing.

I know what happened to my son is rare and probably out of 200 k members here one or two will face the same kind of situation. What I learned was that even in the darkest moment of the first night facing the possibility that my son could be severely damaged mentally, physically and I actually could lose him early and that before morning I wouldn't know anything concrete, I felt lucky to have him. He looked like a rotten potato, the ugliest baby ever made, the nurses expected a meltdown from me, it seemed everyone thought that was the only way to handle the situation.

At six am I got an email listing surgeons, solutions, hearing aids, renovations needed for our house. Even after being together for six years it truly surprised me how well my spouse knew me and the amount of strength he gave me. If anyone has to go through anything like this, my tip is to remember your strengths, let yourself be weak, handle the nightmares and even when life seems ugly, hopeless and scary, it is still okay to love every second of it.

[grieverr]

Originally Posted by Sara504

Now I look back and cant believe I ever thought those things but it's really true about how depressing it can be.

That was heartbreaking to read. I'm glad you see it that way now and that you're feeling better and enjoying your daughter. Hopefully, you can surround yourself with good people going forward.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Sara504

Honestly, because he's an asshole.

He didnt go with me for my first appointment. He only went to one scan, the down syndrome scan to "make sure our baby was normal." He was disappointed in that scan because the technician told us I was carrying a girl and he didnt want a daughter. He wanted a son. After that scan was over was when I got the results that I carried the SMA gene and it would be wise to test him to see if he had it too so we would know what our options were and if our baby would be at risk. Regardless, he wouldnt go because he was a dick. Either way I would have loved her anyway. He wasnt even there when I gave birth to her. Why? Because Sales Manager meetings are more important to him to be in attendance for. I labored and gave birth without him there. He strolls in the hospital an hour after she was born and wants to hold her? No way. Get away from me.
You can see why I had extreme post pardon depression. I live in a two story home with the upstairs open to below layout. I had many thoughts of throwing myself over the railing and visions of hanging my self with an internet cable from the chandelier in the foyer. It was awful the first two months. I cried non stop. Now I look back and cant believe I ever thought those things but it's really true about how depressing it can be.

That is unbelievably horrible. I'm very sorry that you had to go through that. I can't wrap my head around how bad people can be to each other and their own kids sometimes. Just blows my mind.

[minn19]

A lot of really great things being said in this thread at the same time though. Here's to all of the parents and spouses that put their selfish desires aside and put their families first!

Sorry, Xtabi I know you weren't coming at this from a totally selfish point of view and seemed to more make it a fun thread, but you've been here long enough and know how these things go.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Bluex

Hear, hear! I took the full time off with both my kids and it was the greatest thing i've ever done in my life. As my son heads off to prep school for hockey in 3 months I miss those days. It flies by. I'd do anything to have those 2+ weeks again with my infant son and daughter.



Seriously. Divorce or Death will be in your future...quickly. And you may pray for the latter.

Listen, while I disagree with his thought process, I tend to understand it. We guys get these "great" ideas that upon initial thought sound like they are no-brainers. In reality, they are bad bad bad ideas that never should have seen the light of day. Usually a bit of reflection reveals this.

Choosing to forgo that parental time-off so you can use it later to do a European Delivery may SOUND in your head like a good idea, but hell man.....it's not. And your wife will NOT think so. If she says ok to it, don't kid yourself, you'll be paying for that decision for the rest of your life. She will not let you forget it.

I've said this before but damn you know your shit!

I have too male friends who have had THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST ideas for their vacation. First timers are the worst because they just don't take subtle hints, the second timers just think all will go well because they already know it all, third timers just are so sick of the wives complaining they truly think running away can be done.

My friend is expecting a fifth kiddo, I texted him a link to this thread and he told me to write here that he's taking two months off, expecting to go back to work exhausted and that at best if he gets really lucky, he can take the eldest fishing for a few hours before he is done with his "holiday". Knowing the wife I expect all this to be true.

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by Lups

I've said this before but damn you know your shit!

I have too male friends who have had THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST ideas for their vacation. First timers are the worst because they just don't take subtle hints, the second timers just think all will go well because they already know it all, third timers just are so sick of the wives complaining they truly think running away can be done.

My friend is expecting a fifth kiddo, I texted him a link to this thread and he told me to write here that he's taking two months off, expecting to go back to work exhausted and that at best if he gets really lucky, he can take the eldest fishing for a few hours before he is done with his "holiday". Knowing the wife I expect all this to be true.

Trial and error, my dear Lups , trial and error.

I'd like to think i'm not an asshole, generally speaking....but i've made some poor decisions in the past. Probably enough that I can recognize them when I see others making them, on site...immediately. lol.

I've seen the effects of PPD and I know that nobody needs the stabilizing nature of a father more than a mother who has recently given birth. 1st or 7th birth, it doesn't matter. Your job is to be there and do whatever is needed...but beyond that, you WANT to.

It's the little details in life when you do the right thing that fulfill us far more than picking up a new bmw in europe.

Honestly, not to come down on the OP, but me personally, I couldn't live with myself being in Europe while my wife just gave birth. I think it would sicken me...i'd never be able to enjoy the car.

The greatest moment in my life continues to be at the birth of my first son, the baby gets handed to me immediately (momma was busy having her insides scraped out...) and the very first thing he does is grab onto my finger with his hand and squeeze HARD. He's 15 now, and that instant was a life defining moment for me. No M car is worth those moments.

[grieverr]

Originally Posted by Bluex

Honestly, not to come down on the OP, but me personally, I couldn't live with myself being in Europe while my wife just gave birth. I think it would sicken me...i'd never be able to enjoy the car.

I already mentioned that I think it would be wrong, but to lighten things up a bit...

The OP said he has up to a year after the birth in which he can take the time off. My assumption was he will be there when the baby is born, although having his normal work schedule. The OP would use his one month at a later date, whenever his car was ready.

That's where I said that I think it would be wrong to take advantage of a company that actually valued the father's time with his family.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Bluex

Trial and error, my dear Lups , trial and error.

I'd like to think i'm not an asshole, generally speaking....but i've made some poor decisions in the past. Probably enough that I can recognize them when I see others making them, on site...immediately. lol.

I've seen the effects of PPD and I know that nobody needs the stabilizing nature of a father more than a mother who has recently given birth. 1st or 7th birth, it doesn't matter. Your job is to be there and do whatever is needed...but beyond that, you WANT to.

It's the little details in life when you do the right thing that fulfill us far more than picking up a new bmw in europe.

Honestly, not to come down on the OP, but me personally, I couldn't live with myself being in Europe while my wife just gave birth. I think it would sicken me...i'd never be able to enjoy the car.

The greatest moment in my life continues to be at the birth of my first son, the baby gets handed to me immediately (momma was busy having her insides scraped out...) and the very first thing he does is grab onto my finger with his hand and squeeze HARD. He's 15 now, and that instant was a life defining moment for me. No M car is worth those moments.

Yup, those do it! In many cases it's also us women who have no clue on what to expect even if the kiddo is not the first. The sheer amount of stupidity I've demonstrated over the years with kids is unreal. I also can pinpoint the moment the inner idiot has taken over but unlike you, I still haven't learned to stop myself before the situation is a full blown disaster.

I've been babysitting an infant all spring because of my weird hobbies. A few times when I've delivered the baby back to his foster parent, I've sat in the lights thinking why does anyone have kids voluntarily. I get to take him back but this has given me a view to the life of a single parent how it would've felt to have no support from the spouse. I'm willing to bet if things had gone this way in our house, someone would be missing vital body parts.

because of all the bad moments, the horror one feels when the first kiddo is laid in our hands and we learn what the word love truly means, the ER trips, the fights, the letdowns, the times when we feel hopeless and scared makes the car more special too. the pure magic of getting into our M's, starting them up knowing we have five minutes to ourselves while getting milk makes the car more special and gives us the strength to go back home and live through an other day of difficult situations and questions.

"mom, why does your friends have cool cars and you drive that thing? Could you buy something nice next time? Something faster than a dinosaur?"

Yup. Milk needed in the evening.

[KingOfJericho]

As someone who works long hours for a company that does not provide any paternity leave, I do think it's fucked up to see someone squander theirs on a car. My wife gave birth to our son a month ago and she still desperately needs my help at home (we also have a 22 month old) but I'm stuck with no choice but to work. It's reasons like this that give companies pause about offering such perks. You're ruining it for those of us who legitimately need the time to help our growing families...

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by Lups

because of all the bad moments, the horror one feels when the first kiddo is laid in our hands and we learn what the word love truly means, the ER trips, the fights, the letdowns, the times when we feel hopeless and scared makes the car more special too. the pure magic of getting into our M's, starting them up knowing we have five minutes to ourselves while getting milk makes the car more special and gives us the strength to go back home and live through an other day of difficult situations and questions.

"mom, why does your friends have cool cars and you drive that thing? Could you buy something nice next time? Something faster than a dinosaur?"

Yup. Milk needed in the evening.

Agreed! Makes it all the more special.

Btw, my 15 year old texts me while in Germany asking for a pic of the new car. I get it to him and then nothing else from him...no text back, no email....nothing. But what he DOES do is post it up on Instagram to show all his friends/followers.

That little shit, that I lovingly reflect back to gripping my fingers for the first time, just wanted to get a pic to show off to his friends...lol. Gotta love teenagers.

Kids...you know I love em'

[Xtabi]

Originally Posted by minn19

Sorry, Xtabi I know you weren't coming at this from a totally selfish point of view and seemed to more make it a fun thread, but you've been here long enough and know how these things go.

Thank goodness M! You are very much correct! I truly only made this thread to joke around with my friends here on the forums. I would never in a MILLION years put anything before the happiness, wellbeing, and welfare of my family. I have an amazingly wonderful wife of 10 years and two phenomenal children that I love to no end.

Nothing is greater on this earth than being a father to little ones. They are truly a gift from God. I am so excited to have the blessing of #3 and can not wait until she gets here.

One other fact I left out is that I work from home so I also get to see all of my kids grow up. I miss out on just about nothing in their lives. It is so incredibly awesome. Truly blessed I am.

My parents are both 82 and raised me with nothing but love and instilled in me the importance of family and hard work. Hence why I have a very happy marriage and wonderful career. Quite honestly the biggest issue I have is my inablility to spend money lol. Hence why I have yet to get the M3! Hell one year of my bonus more than covers the cost of the damn thing. It is just the way I was rasied. My wife, friends, family and even my financial advisor tell me to buy...but I just can't bring myself to do it. ARGGHH Lol I came so close during the winter too. I have a quote for an M3 BELOW invoice (ordered) and that was before my company's fleet discount of another $1,500. Someone give me a good swift kick please!

Anyhow, I am very sorry the nature of my post was miss interpreted by some. I had no intent to hit a nerve, or bring up any bad past experiences you may have had.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Xtabi

Thank goodness M! You are very much correct! I truly only made this thread to joke around with my friends here on the forums. I would never in a MILLION years put anything before the happiness, wellbeing, and welfare of my family. I have an amazingly wonderful wife of 10 years and two phenomenal children that I love to no end.

Nothing is greater on this earth than being a father to little ones. They are truly a gift from God. I am so excited to have the blessing of #3 and can not wait until she gets here.

One other fact I left out is that I work from home so I also get to see all of my kids grow up. I miss out on just about nothing in their lives. It is so incredibly awesome. Truly blessed I am.

My parents are both 82 and raised me with nothing but love and instilled in me the importance of family and hard work. Hence why I have a very happy marriage and wonderful career. Quite honestly the biggest issue I have is my inablility to spend money lol. Hence why I have yet to get the M3! Hell one year of my bonus more than covers the cost of the damn thing. It is just the way I was rasied. My wife, friends, family and even my financial advisor tell me to buy...but I just can't bring myself to do it. ARGGHH Lol I came so close during the winter too. I have a quote for an M3 BELOW invoice (ordered) and that was before my company's fleet discount of another $1,500. Someone give me a good swift kick please!

Anyhow, I am very sorry the nature of my post was miss interpreted by some. I had no intent to hit a nerve, or bring up any bad past experiences you may have had.

The thread went to a different direction but we from that side of the forum know you well enough to know you meant this as fun which is badly needed in our corner. Bad timing though, I've been stressing over old and new traumas for a few weeks now and apparently this took the hit to unload them all.

It's still a great and needed thread. To the youngsters having their first kids this will be a helpful read and to us old folks a place to boast how special we are. Everybody wins.

Thanks op.