Motor Trend vid: Camaro Z/28 vs Mustang Shelby GT350R

[Fundguy1]

I want the 2017 gt500. Supposed to be in the high 10s stock.

[hellrotm]

^
Eh, no thanks...different car. GT500 will be for the straight line junkies. GT350 is for the track rats.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Being Carlos back. Lever boy and jacktard suck,

[hellrotm]

Looks like the R package is worth about 2+sec around Chuckwalla.

GT350 - 2:00.2
GT350R - 1:57.87

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Looks like the R package is worth about 2+sec around Chuckwalla.

GT350 - 2:00.2
GT350R - 1:57.87

We'll see if the gt500 is straight line or track. No reason they couldn't make it handle ad good. Just a gt350 with more power. Looking at the small difference betweena gt350 and 350r, I'll take the 350 and keep all the extra comfort stuff, and use the extra money to get a set of the carbon fiber 350r rims. Bet that would close a good part of the time gap.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

No, closing of the Sainte-Thérèse killed the F-body. GM did a god awful job marketing it (and most other cars during the 90's to be honest). Then it was building a car (well, 2 cars) in a plant designed for a far larger production run - one a pony car of any brand couldn't do. It was an aging plant that they closed vs retooling and making vehicles that belong in it.

The just as aging Mustang had nothing to do with it.


Unique, sure. Character...not sure what that means. Robust - jury is out on that one. Forged internals but how many high HP boosted Boss 5.0's are running around (plenty of LS3's). Power wise, it make a bit more HP but less torque, so it's a wash, with the LS3 having a flatter power band. I'd much prefer the LS3 for it's much larger aftermarket offerings, easier to work on/mod, lower cost, lighter weight and overall power potential.

One of my best friends owned a Boss 302 for a stint, and I've spent hours driving it. And I've driven every application of the LS3 that GM has built. While the LS3 is a great engine- the 6MT C6 Grand Sport is my personal favorite- the Road Runner is a more charismatic and enjoyable engine imo. It revs higher, sounds better, and feels better better matched to it's purpose than the LS engines.

Oh, and the standard Coyote handles boost better than the LS3. The Road Runner handles it even better. Bolt on for bolt on, it'll make more power and be faster than an LS3. I've watched it played in my circle of car guys time and time again. You'll have go heads/cam to get the same N/A power ability out of an LS3. I prefer GM to Ford, but the Coyote is an impressive engine. Now it comparison to the LT1, that's a whole different story.

[See5]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

N

Unique, sure. Character...not sure what that means. Robust - jury is out on that one. Forged internals but how many high HP boosted Boss 5.0's are running around (plenty of LS3's). Power wise, it make a bit more HP but less torque, so it's a wash, with the LS3 having a flatter power band. I'd much prefer the LS3 for it's much larger aftermarket offerings, easier to work on/mod, lower cost, lighter weight and overall power potential.

Let's just say there's more than a few. And the new 2015+ Coyotes are almost as bulletproof under boost.

Not only are the RoadRunner internals great for boost, it came standard with CNC ported heads just like the LS7. And the valvetrain is rated to handle 8400rpm. Most people with boltons(like mine), have their rev limiters set around 7800-7900rpm and it still makes power up there. Definitely not your run of the mill V8.

[RM7]

But bigger and heavier engine and contributes to the poor front/rear weight bias. If the rest of the 302 was as impressive, it would be a serious machine, but the brakes, handling, suspension, wheels, etc., all held it back. Not so with the GT350, it's able to take its engine to its potential.

[See5]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

But bigger and heavier engine and contributes to the poor front/rear weight bias. If the rest of the 302 was as impressive, it would be a serious machine, but the brakes, handling, suspension, wheels, etc., all held it back. Not so with the GT350, it's able to take its engine to its potential.

Held it back?

The Boss 302 had more than enough to beat the E92 M3 at the track, which was its main mission. Never heard anything to suggest that it wasn't a "serious machine". Brembo brakes, adjustable suspension, first ever staggered tire setup on a Mustang(first use of Pirellis on a Mustang as well), etc. etc.

The GT350 team took its concept and fleshed it out even more.

[PandaM3]

Seems to be there are a bunch of Black Friday weekend specials on the Z28... $25,000 off
http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-...a-r-1744593201

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

But bigger and heavier engine and contributes to the poor front/rear weight bias. If the rest of the 302 was as impressive, it would be a serious machine, but the brakes, handling, suspension, wheels, etc., all held it back. Not so with the GT350, it's able to take its engine to its potential.

LOL, what?

You have clearly never driven a Boss 302.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Seems to be there are a bunch of Black Friday weekend specials on the Z28... $25,000 off
http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-...a-r-1744593201

Cause it's being replaced, the new ss is cheaper, just as fast, and more modern, they need to unload them while they can.

[PandaM3]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Cause it's being replaced, the new ss is cheaper, just as fast, and more modern, they need to unload them while they can.

I know it's getting replaced

still... $50k for a car that can beet a 911 Turbo S and GTR on a track... sounds like a great deal... just can't get over that horrible GM interior tho...

http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevr...-r-comparison/

OTOH... if you're saying the new SS is just as fast around a track as the Z28... sooo then you're saying it's quicker than the 911 turbo s and GTR and can getter a faster than 7:37 around the Nürburgring Nordschleife? I think the new SS is just quicker 0 to 60.

[FriskyDingo]

The new SS is about as quick in a straight line. It's got nothing on the Z around a track.

[RM7]

Yep, the Z had a lower top speed than my SS, because the Z28 was meant for the track.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

We'll see if the gt500 is straight line or track. No reason they couldn't make it handle ad good. Just a gt350 with more power.

No doubt the next GT500 will be amazing. But I would prefer the high revving NA voodoo for track use.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Looking at the small difference betweena gt350 and 350r, I'll take the 350 and keep all the extra comfort stuff, and use the extra money to get a set of the carbon fiber 350r rims. Bet that would close a good part of the time gap.

Agree. GT350 is a better value. Although the R will most likely hold their value, being a more limited production.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by See5

Held it back?

The Boss 302 had more than enough to beat the E92 M3 at the track

If you are comparing the "track" version of the Mustang, it's only fair to be comparing the track version of the M3, right? The GTS. As far as I know, that one time it beat the M3 wasn't consistently repeatable, but we have a Honda Civic Type R beating an M3 too, it depends on many factors obviously and this isn't about the M3.

Maybe "never a real contender" is a better way to put it? The old Mustang chassis had some inherent limitations that would always keep it from performing at the level of other cars. This is not in dispute.

Now with the new chassis, the weight bias, the solid rear end, the brakes, the tire width, the shocks, etc, are not holding the car back from being competitive.

[Vigilante375]

The new SS just as fast as the Z/28? Uh huh, in a straight line it can hang with it but thats about all. And they already had this deal before with the Z/28 as well as other GM products. 20% off cars that have been sitting on dealers lots for a certain amount of time.

And the only real thing that held the Boss 302 back was its solid rear axle. That was about all. Still, its cheaper car that can rival a M3. But I'd rather have a 1LE!

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

I know it's getting replaced

still... $50k for a car that can beet a 911 Turbo S and GTR on a track... sounds like a great deal... just can't get over that horrible GM interior tho...

http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevr...-r-comparison/

OTOH... if you're saying the new SS is just as fast around a track as the Z28... sooo then you're saying it's quicker than the 911 turbo s and GTR and can getter a faster than 7:37 around the Nürburgring Nordschleife? I think the new SS is just quicker 0 to 60.

The new SS has the straight line speed of the z/28 and the handling/braking of the zl1. I think thats the best way to compare it with older models. Taking the "weakest" parts of the zl1 and z/28, although not exactly that weak lol. I think you understand what i'm getting at.

[Irishsig]

Not familiar with the reviewer...
But yeah he is a bit of a giddy retard

[fcman]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

If you are comparing the "track" version of the Mustang, it's only fair to be comparing the track version of the M3, right? The GTS.

Nope, "track" version would be the Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Regular Boss 302 is a true street car so M3 vs Boss 302 comparison is valid.