What next? Cayman S vs. Stingray Z51

[Nitrousbird]

Originally Posted by SMV_M4

I'm sorry, but to insinuate American cars are more reliable than German, or frankly any European vehicle, is a bit odd. The single worst performer in reliability tests by JD Powers AND Consumer Reports was Jeep, an American vehicle - subsidiary of Chrysler (poor reliability as well). American cars have improved immensely, but not so much as to eclipse proper European cars.

You must have your Euro blinders on. European cars are maintenance hogs, so while in-warranty many owners don't realize how many things are being fixed while in for regular maintenance.

We have two European cars (my 335, wife's A4). We knew the maintenance and repair issues prior to purchasing either.

Originally Posted by gtron

Didn't like the 996 (drove a Carrera 4), and I was dead set on getting one prior to driving it. I wanted a daily driver. The interior was awful - just a sea of carpet and felt cheap. People complain about the C5 Vette interior, yet it is far nicer than the 996. Buddy with me has a C5 and also agreed. I thought I'd be impressed with the braking and it was okay but nothing impressive. Handling was good but nothing outstanding. Acceleration wasn't anything special. Road noise was downright awful, with awful around town manners.

Neat toy, but for the money, there are much better toys to pick.

[SMV_M4]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

You must have your Euro blinders on. European cars are maintenance hogs, so while in-warranty many owners don't realize how many things are being fixed while in for regular maintenance.

We have two European cars (my 335, wife's A4). We knew the maintenance and repair issues prior to purchasing either.

And they are still more reliable than American cars.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by gtron

what about the current VW cover ups? does that mean porsche is out too? you sir, have chosen neither option for op.

Safety related cover ups is the issue. I can give a damn about fuel efficiency ratings when nobody cares to have real life ratings and companies are allowed to use bogus test methods

[swanson]

Originally Posted by SMV_M4

And they are still more reliable than American cars.

I disagree. I would trust to drive an American car cross country then I would any European car.

[Viffermike]

To expound upon the CR list supplied ... the C7 Corvette was recently named the fifth least-reliable individual model by CR. Here's the story in USA Today.

(That list includes two M-Bs, a Hyundai, an Acura, an Infiniti, a Nissan, two Cadillacs, a few Fords/Dodges/Lincolns/Chevys, a Jeep, and a Fiat. No Porsches, BMWs, VWs, Audis, etc.)

Also, about the shout-out on the Jag F-Type: that car is basically a stripper at that base price. Add a decent amount of typical options and it goes to $80K quick.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SMV_M4

I'm sorry, but to insinuate American cars are more reliable than German, or frankly any European vehicle, is a bit odd. The single worst performer in reliability tests by JD Powers AND Consumer Reports was Jeep, an American vehicle - subsidiary of Chrysler (poor reliability as well). American cars have improved immensely, but not so much as to eclipse proper European cars.

Well that, and Fiat actually owns Chrysler....

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gtron

prepare for flame.

not by me but because of those broad strokes panted across a german car forum. lol


but i will post this since it relates directly to the cayman s (note 6 and 10):

Problems per 100 vehicles really has nothing to do with reliability. People bitch about stuff like HMI issues in these data...

Case in point from the USA today article:

"The same problems, however, crop up among many of the cars on the list. They include balky transmissions, leaks, climate controls that don't control the climate and a raft of issues around fancy navigation and in-car entertainment systems."

For example, the seat in my Z4 creaks like an old man, bitches every time I move, but that's got nothing to do, with the 15,000 trouble free driving miles I put on the car since December last year and the absolute joy I get from driving it.

[ErvGotti]

OP you have to be specific on what you want. You said your Z4 35i didn't have the oomph of power you we're looking for yet you're looking at the Cayman S. That flat boxter 6 will have no where near the amount of torque and low to mid range grunt your Z4 had. The interior IMHO of the C7 is on par with the Cayman, and styling is in the eyes of the beholder. My vote would go to the C7 Vette if power is a top priority for you.

[baege]

Yah, so I went from a 2014 Cayman S to a 2015 Corvette back to a 2016 Cayman S (all manual tranny). Only had the vette 3 weeks. That's how much less I liked it than my CS. I even tried to buy my old car back from the Porsche dealer who had bought it from me, but because it had sold I made the choice to give up the vette and go carless for about 6 weeks to get another CS.

So clearly the 981CS was a much more enjoyable vehicle for me. What did I like more: visibility, compact size, nimbleness, throttle response is much more immediate and electric, to me the flat 6 sound is better than the vette's v8 even with performance exhaust (I thought the vette sounded good, but just not distinctive like the flat 6, more like a truck than the race car sound that to me the CS provides), better shift action, the mid engine handling, turn in, rotational feel, the looks (subjective), the quality and feel of the interior. About the only thing the vette had over the CS was low rpm torque and a better ride (more supple and soaked up bumps better).

As to which is right for you, depends on what you value:
do you want rockstar looks (vette gets way more attention), huge power, and the targa roof?
maybe you value you those things over driving engagement and connection to the road?
Some people do and for them the vette is the right choice.
But if you want the car that will bring you the most driving joy, that will connect you most with the driving experience...well I'd say CS all the way.

[baege]

here's a link to my more detailed comparison

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1146838

[CedarZ4]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Never got a chance to reply as the search was put on hold due to work, but it has begun again!

Very thorough review baege. I haven't had an opportunity to test drive a Corvette yet as they seem to be the holy grail to Chevy dealers and don't let you touch them... but haven driven the Cayman your review seems spot on with what I would expect from the C7, "it still feels a little less refined, precise and buttoned down."

When I test drove the 981CS, I have to say I was a lot more impressed than I thought I would be. Even though with the standard interior, it is a huge step up from my last-gen Cayenne. Quality overall seemed above average, but nothing to write home about. The thing that surprised me the most was cabin sound. Having the engine right behind you really lets you hear the growl. It had the Sport Chrono but no Sport Exhaust. Coming from the Z, my biggest complaint was the lack of engine/exhaust note. The engine being a few inches from your ear really solves that problem. However, as a DD I'm afraid it will become annoying and old after the new-car honeymoon phase is over. In terms of driving, what I expected from Porsche. Very planted. Balanced. Confidence inspiring. Also very peppy without needing to ring it to 6 grand, which is what I liked most about the N54 engine; low end torque. However, with 19' rubber (no PASM or sport suspension) the ride was pretty jarring and steering a bit stiff to my liking for DD. I can see where the hype for the car comes from though. It does fantastic things and I imagine it being a track hero. However, to me it seems like a street-able track car, while I'm looking more for a track-able street car.

Impression on the C7. Again, I didn't get to test drive it as it was "dealer policy." I may try another dealer or rent one for a day to give it a swing. First impression, it looks a lot better than it does in pictures. It looks great in picture but the rear and the rear-quarter view looks way too jagged and angular. Not so much in person, which is a good thing. Interior wise, huge step up from the C6 without a doubt. Design wise I think is top-notch and better than Porsche's. However, in terms of material quality it is not quite up to par. 3LT Napa leather felt hard and rough (similar to the standard leather on the 981), very different from the Napa leather I had on my Z that was very supple and smooth. However, it isn't bad and I'll be spending most of my time driving and not feeling up the interior anyway so I give it a score of "Pass". The manual targa top also seems like a good plus as it does offer decent open air experience especially coming from a convertible while maintaining the nice curves of a coupe. What really won me over was when they fired her up. That V8 growl was unreal. Put it into track mode and a light rev into 2-3k had me sold. Pending an actual drive, the Vette may be the winner purely from the sound aspect which just stole my heart from a spiritual and emotional aspect. It was THAT good.

This also made me realize my next car has to have a V8. I've added the F-Type V8 (as someone has already mentioned), SLK55, and C63 to the "maybe" list. The MB's not so much, but the Jaguar is a real contender. Only caveat is fixed top. It's also much more expensive than the C7 (Z06 territory).

I have no doubt the CS is THE driver's car and would out-perform the Vette in terms of overall fun. However, it's not a dedicated track toy and will be used for DD commute with occasional spirited drives. I think the C7 checks more boxes than the Cayman for my needs.

Any other V8 cars I'm missing that I should be considering?

[gtron]

Originally Posted by CedarZ4

Thanks for the responses everyone. Never got a chance to reply as the search was put on hold due to work, but it has begun again!

Very thorough review baege. I haven't had an opportunity to test drive a Corvette yet as they seem to be the holy grail to Chevy dealers and don't let you touch them... but haven driven the Cayman your review seems spot on with what I would expect from the C7, "it still feels a little less refined, precise and buttoned down."

When I test drove the 981CS, I have to say I was a lot more impressed than I thought I would be. Even though with the standard interior, it is a huge step up from my last-gen Cayenne. Quality overall seemed above average, but nothing to write home about. The thing that surprised me the most was cabin sound. Having the engine right behind you really lets you hear the growl. It had the Sport Chrono but no Sport Exhaust. Coming from the Z, my biggest complaint was the lack of engine/exhaust note. The engine being a few inches from your ear really solves that problem. However, as a DD I'm afraid it will become annoying and old after the new-car honeymoon phase is over. In terms of driving, what I expected from Porsche. Very planted. Balanced. Confidence inspiring. Also very peppy without needing to ring it to 6 grand, which is what I liked most about the N54 engine; low end torque. However, with 19' rubber (no PASM or sport suspension) the ride was pretty jarring and steering a bit stiff to my liking for DD. I can see where the hype for the car comes from though. It does fantastic things and I imagine it being a track hero. However, to me it seems like a street-able track car, while I'm looking more for a track-able street car.

Impression on the C7. Again, I didn't get to test drive it as it was "dealer policy." I may try another dealer or rent one for a day to give it a swing. First impression, it looks a lot better than it does in pictures. It looks great in picture but the rear and the rear-quarter view looks way too jagged and angular. Not so much in person, which is a good thing. Interior wise, huge step up from the C6 without a doubt. Design wise I think is top-notch and better than Porsche's. However, in terms of material quality it is not quite up to par. 3LT Napa leather felt hard and rough (similar to the standard leather on the 981), very different from the Napa leather I had on my Z that was very supple and smooth. However, it isn't bad and I'll be spending most of my time driving and not feeling up the interior anyway so I give it a score of "Pass". The manual targa top also seems like a good plus as it does offer decent open air experience especially coming from a convertible while maintaining the nice curves of a coupe. What really won me over was when they fired her up. That V8 growl was unreal. Put it into track mode and a light rev into 2-3k had me sold. Pending an actual drive, the Vette may be the winner purely from the sound aspect which just stole my heart from a spiritual and emotional aspect. It was THAT good.

This also made me realize my next car has to have a V8. I've added the F-Type V8 (as someone has already mentioned), SLK55, and C63 to the "maybe" list. The MB's not so much, but the Jaguar is a real contender. Only caveat is fixed top. It's also much more expensive than the C7 (Z06 territory).

I have no doubt the CS is THE driver's car and would out-perform the Vette in terms of overall fun. However, it's not a dedicated track toy and will be used for DD commute with occasional spirited drives. I think the C7 checks more boxes than the Cayman for my needs.

Any other V8 cars I'm missing that I should be considering?

i can't say for sure but i think you quit hearing it or get use to it rather than find it annoying. i only noticed it when i wanted to after awhile. for example, i knew i was going to take off quickly and i wanted to hear the joy so the music would be muted and my ears focused. other than that, i wouldn't notice.

imo, you should get the CS before they change out the flat six for a turbo four. you can always sell it then get the C7 later.

finally, i wouldn't buy a car from them if they didn't let me drive it. i mean, it's not like it's $200k. maybe they think it is. if they believe you're a real buyer, then they shoud let you drive your future car. i would almost feel insulted like they think i wasn't serious or something. then again, it might be different there. i don't think they give a crap here and will give the keys to anyone. haha

now that i think of it, chicago was like that too. i called to schedule a test drive of a gtr when i lived there and they were telling me no, i would have to do a credit check first and all kinds of crap. i told them to eff off and i wouldn't have a credit pull just to drive a car. the manager called me back and invited me in and explained that kids call all the time trying to take it out for a joy ride. i get it but still felt a little annoyed for some reason.