BMW survey: Future of the manual transmission

[Fundguy1]

How do I get into the survey group?

[FC]

It's hard to argue that manuals are better than a good AT/DCT. And at the track, I would definitely prefer to shift as fast as possible (to say nothing of exposing yourself to a money shift).

But for enjoyment and not speed, I feel the MT wins. Soon enough there will no longer be MT's. That's pretty hard to deny. So while I still can, I will get a MT. Also, on the F8X it's no contest: The DCT is a $3K expense.

Right now BMW has a key selling feature in having the only MT in European sport sedans.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I know a guy who is a driving coach for Ferrari. He told me that Ferrari re-programed the DCT in some of their cars because customers were complaining that it was "too smooth" and they wanted to feel a "kick" when it shifted. Apparently to them the illusion of performance was more important than actual performance.

I think there is something to this idea. In my car, I cannot even tell the car shifted much less feel a kick. I love it for that, but once in awhile, it would be nice to have a larger gap between gears just for the fun of it. Having a mode that eliminates 3 (or 4) of the 8 gears on command would interest me, even though it's most likely the slower way to get there. Speed isn't everything.

[fbsm]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I think there is something to this idea. In my car, I cannot even tell the car shifted much less feel a kick. I love it for that, but once in awhile, it would be nice to have a larger gap between gears just for the fun of it. Having a mode that eliminates 3 (or 4) of the 8 gears on command would interest me, even though it's most likely the slower way to get there. Speed isn't everything.

I think they call that a manual transmission......

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by fbsm

I think they call that a manual transmission......

I did say "once in awhile". I love MT. Drove MT for 30 years or so. If I get a weekend car, it will have MT. Day to day driving, the 8AT in the BMW and the 9AT in the Merc, and I'm sure others, are just plain awesome bits of engineering. A skip gears mode would be a great option in my mind.

[F30inthe6ix]

I spent almost a year digging through various F30s trying to find exactly the one I wanted that had the MT I needed. Came to a compromise with my car...no M-Sport Package, but everything else and standard was good enough for my first venture into BMW.

My next car will definitely be an M-Sport model, and also once again a standard one.

[fbsm]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I did say "once in awhile". I love MT. Drove MT for 30 years or so. If I get a weekend car, it will have MT. Day to day driving, the 8AT in the BMW and the 9AT in the Merc, and I'm sure others, are just plain awesome bits of engineering. A skip gears mode would be a great option in my mind.

If I lived in/around your neck of the woods I would have an AT as a DD as well

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by fbsm

If I lived in/around your neck of the woods I would have an AT as a DD as well

That's how I feel. MT in traffic isn't that much fun. I'm lucky enough to manage my schedule to avoid too much traffic, but still I'm among 7 million people in the Bay Area. I've got a 3-car garage and only two cars, so a weekend MT car is still a possibility. One can dream.

[captainaudio]

I commuted in and out of Manhattan in MT cars for years, Never really bothered me.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by RichR

I believe I read in the latest issue of Motor Trend that the F90 M5 will not.

Yes, that's true. Even though he wasn't absolutely explicit, GrussGott was probably referring to the M4 and below.

But, I'm sure the smaller cars will offer a manual for at least a few more years. I certainly hope so.

Although we don't know for sure yet, my personal belief is that the M2, M3, and M4 will continue with a manual transmission option for the next generation (Gxx) models. However, and the survey seems to be worded in a way to specifically get feedback on this point, for the M3 and M4 at least, I would not be surprised to see it become a no-cost option rather than standard equipment. This would mean that the price of the ZF automatic (which will replace the DCT in the next generation of M cars) will be baked into the base price and thus you'll pay for it either way.

Beyond that - some ten years from now - things get quite a bit less certain. I could see perhaps the M2 keeping the manual transmission if indeed we are still dealing with ICE powered vehicles (which will very possibly be predominantly PHEV by then) and not pure electric vehicles. Once we get to the latter, transmissions themselves go bye-bye so the whole thing becomes moot. At that point, we will be thankful when a car still has the ability to be operated non-automously.

[bd307]

Originally Posted by FC

It's hard to argue that manuals are better than a good AT/DCT. And at the track, I would definitely prefer to shift as fast as possible (to say nothing of exposing yourself to a money shift).

But for enjoyment and not speed, I feel the MT wins. Soon enough there will no longer be MT's. That's pretty hard to deny. So while I still can, I will get a MT. Also, on the F8X it's no contest: The DCT is a $3K expense.

Right now BMW has a key selling feature in having the only MT in European sport sedans.

They will actually charge for opting in MT as an option whereas DCT is standard and included with the price of car. It gives me that feel from the survey.

That will allow them to continue offering MT as an option while keeping up with the margin on a low volume option like MT.

Not agree with it, but it is what it is and at least an option is offered to those who want an M car with MT.

[rockstar93]

Wasn't targeted by the survey, but intrigued at some of the responses in this thread. For the record I'm a manual transmission guy, and in favour of keeping the manual, even as an extra-charge.

It all boils down to the R&D, certification, and distribution costs of having multiple transmissions. I work for a large auto manufacturer and one of the biggest initiatives is lowering the number of trims and possible vehicle combinations. The number of colours are being reduced, individual options are being dropped in favour of 'packages', and the manual transmission is slowly being phased out of our models due to low demand (1-2% of total). This is all to minimize distribution costs of moving cars across the country, to have the 'right car at the right place' and reduce dealer trades.

I completely understand the thought to pass on the costs to the end-consumer, as the MT would be the more expensive transmission when you factor in volume. Paying slightly more beats not having the option at all.

It's interesting to see some people very against the idea of there being a premium on the MT over AT, when this is so widely accepted on the used market (E46 M3, P-cars, 90-00's Ferrari's, etc.), it's supply and demand.

I'm sure BMW wants to keep the MT, and keep that image as (one of) the only luxury manufacturers to keep the option, but something has to give. More consumers are demanding the AT/DCT so it's getting more and more expensive to keep a second transmission. Their choices are 1) decrease profits, 2) drop the MT, 3) charge a premium for the MT, or 4) increase the price of the car across the board.

Number 1 isn't gonna happen, and none of the other options are going to keep everybody happy.

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by fbsm

No MT then no BMW for me.

These german marketing tards are irritating

~half of all VW GTI sales are MT's

Could that be driven by price in the parsimonious ROW?