BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   7Post - 7 Series Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-18-2017, 11:17 AM   #23
Tacoma
Captain
Canada
945
Rep
749
Posts

Drives: BMWs for 30 yrs
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (0)

I disagree with the paying more for manual option.

I didn't get the survey (maybe US only?) but if the so called "Board of Drivers" are actually in favor of keeping the manual, then charging more for it will actually do the opposite and drive people away thus diluting the competitive advantage by offering it in the first place.

The end result would be even less people would order the manual and another nail in the coffin. Thus if the Board is in favor of keeping the manual, it should not support charging more for it.
Appreciate 1
Mikster56.50
      06-18-2017, 11:54 AM   #24
SanchoDivine
Captain
United_States
554
Rep
908
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 M3
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: San Antonio

iTrader: (0)

I enjoy the fact that I save a few thousand to get an MT which is my preference. I have driven the DCTs and while there are some things to like about it, there are couple things that I absolutely hate about it. It doesn't feel like driving and the paddles are equivalent to the old sportshift automatics with the difference being on the steering wheel instead of the shifter. What's the deal with it automatically putting the car in park if you open the door so that you can see how far your rear wheel is to the curb? Sure there are performance gains from the autos/DCTs and they are preferred for warranty reasons but IMO manuals are becoming a thing of the past because it's a dying skill that a lot of people just don't have. Companies won't invest in adding additional gears or making manuals higher performing because a majority of the population aren't able to use manuals.

Last edited by SanchoDivine; 06-18-2017 at 12:43 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2017, 12:42 PM   #25
///M-er-gized
Captain
///M-er-gized's Avatar
United_States
687
Rep
663
Posts

Drives: 2019 540i
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

People that prefer manual transmissions are much more passionate and vocal about it. People that prefer the DCT are in the majority, are less passionate about it, and less likely to voice their preference for it on Internet forums.
__________________
2019 540i | Black Sapphire | Black Dakota Leather with Blue Stitching | M Sport Package | Executive Tier | Driver Assistance | Parking Assistance | HK | M Sport Brakes | Leather Dashboard
2016 M3 | YMB | Black Extended Merino | CF Roof | CF Trim | DCT | Adaptive | Executive
Appreciate 3
M4_GTS1152.50
      06-18-2017, 12:47 PM   #26
SanchoDivine
Captain
United_States
554
Rep
908
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 M3
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: San Antonio

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-er-gized View Post
People that prefer the DCT are in the majority
99% of that majority prefer DCT because they are not proficient at driving manuals or in most cases have never driven anything but automatics.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2017, 12:50 PM   #27
iamwingman
Major
1204
Rep
1,184
Posts

Drives: 21 Carrera S, 23 Tesla Model S
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoDivine View Post
99% of that majority prefer DCT because they are not proficient at driving manuals or in most cases have never driven anything but automatics.
Uh huh. Little secret, it ain't that difficult to drive a stick.
Appreciate 1
CanAutM321104.50
      06-18-2017, 01:53 PM   #28
aerostar
Major
746
Rep
1,246
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
Uh huh. Little secret, it ain't that difficult to drive a stick.
Nobody said it's hard. He said they don't know how to.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2017, 02:08 PM   #29
iamwingman
Major
1204
Rep
1,184
Posts

Drives: 21 Carrera S, 23 Tesla Model S
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

He mentioned proficiency. Inidicating a level of difficulty involved. And if you manual or bust guys want to feel connected to your cars, why not try driving an un-synchronized manual.?But, as I said, driving a stick is not hard to do. The stick only people act as if it is some accomplishment to drive one.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2017, 02:15 PM   #30
Projectile
Second Lieutenant
Projectile's Avatar
Canada
28
Rep
251
Posts

Drives: 2017 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's on first View Post
I'm on my second M4. First on a MT, this one DCT. I'd 100% go back to a MT if I could.

No doubt.
Well, I missed MT after an e92 with DCT (my first non MT after 20 yrs) so I got an e92 6MT, then got an F82 6MT, and now I'm finally ready to give up the MT and very pleased with DCT. It's a great blend of both worlds with better performance. The question comes down to fun, and for me, after nearly 30years with MT, it just wasn't that fun anymore ...

Who knows? Ma be I'll get bored and want a MT next time, but I doubt it.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten: 996Targa6MT, 997C2S6MT, e92DCT, e926MT, F826MT
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2017, 03:14 PM   #31
FC
Lieutenant
233
Rep
510
Posts

Drives: '21 F90, '23 BGTS 4.0, '21 GTI
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northeast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
He mentioned proficiency. Inidicating a level of difficulty involved. And if you manual or bust guys want to feel connected to your cars, why not try driving an un-synchronized manual.?But, as I said, driving a stick is not hard to do. The stick only people act as if it is some accomplishment to drive one.
My experience is that aside from "car people," the majority of people who can drive stick (which in the US is an extreme minority) doesn't do so well.

I've spent time in other countries where people typically get manual cars because they are cheaper (especially years ago) and most drivers managed to drive stick adequately at best. Usually the timing of shifts was awful, a ton of clutch slipping, some jerkiness, etc.

Most of these people would much rather drive an automatic, and in large part was because they could not drive stick well.

And to suggest driving a stick is no more difficult than an automatic is absurd, never mind doing so well.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2017, 03:56 PM   #32
SanchoDivine
Captain
United_States
554
Rep
908
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 M3
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: San Antonio

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
Uh huh. Little secret, it ain't that difficult to drive a stick.
What I meant was some people know how to make a manual transmission car move, but they don't really have enough experience to know how to row between gears smoothly or deal with a lot of the other scenarios like traffic on hills, etc. It's not hard to make a car with a manual transmission move, but it takes more than driving a manual for the first time to do it well. The rev matching feature and other assist make it easier but it still wont help you know which is the best gear to switch to at a given speed.

Automatic transmissions will eventually make manual and pseudo manual (DCTs) cars disappear and not too much longer the self-driving cars will take over so the debate on transmissions is a short lived one.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2017, 06:25 PM   #33
gatorfast
Major General
gatorfast's Avatar
United_States
4969
Rep
6,854
Posts

Drives: 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoFla

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
He mentioned proficiency. Inidicating a level of difficulty involved. And if you manual or bust guys want to feel connected to your cars, why not try driving an un-synchronized manual.?But, as I said, driving a stick is not hard to do. The stick only people act as if it is some accomplishment to drive one.
Geeze defensive much?
Appreciate 1
      06-18-2017, 07:07 PM   #34
E92 M Sport
Lieutenant
E92 M Sport's Avatar
United_States
287
Rep
398
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Did my part and took the survey. Plus MT is a great anti theft feature!
__________________
2016 M4 MW/SS 6mt
Appreciate 1
angelr187.50
      06-18-2017, 09:31 PM   #35
captainaudio
World's Foremost Authority
captainaudio's Avatar
United_States
1181
Rep
4,535
Posts

Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoDivine View Post
99% of that majority prefer DCT because they are not proficient at driving manuals or in most cases have never driven anything but automatics.
Most of the people that I know that prefer DCT are very proficient at driving manuals. Many of them are professional race drivers and several of them hold track records and have won national championships. Most of the others drove MTs for many years and many still own cars with manual transmissions.
__________________

Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England
Appreciate 1
      06-18-2017, 10:30 PM   #36
SanchoDivine
Captain
United_States
554
Rep
908
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 M3
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: San Antonio

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Most of the people that I know that prefer DCT are very proficient at driving manuals. Many of them are professional race drivers and several of them hold track records and have won national championships. Most of the others drove MTs for many years and many still own cars with manual transmissions.
I don't really know what to say here. All I can decipher is that you don't know many people and that a number of them will have a manual car.
Appreciate 1
      06-18-2017, 10:33 PM   #37
GrussGott
Lieutenant General
GrussGott's Avatar
United_States
18113
Rep
11,746
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 Comp Indv
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Newport Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Wow that's telling. I have a manual but was thinking of trying a DCT next time around. I enjoy the manual very much though but was curious if the DCT would amp up the performance another notch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's on first View Post
DCT is absolutely quicker. No question. I'd still go back.
Depends on what you bought the car for:

* If you're daily driving it and don't do much track/canyon work then I'd definitely stay 6MT - just way more fun

* If your core reason is you're trying to hit that time or keep up with that one dude, then definitely get the DCT

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoDivine View Post

99% of that majority prefer DCT because they are not proficient at driving manuals
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
He mentioned proficiency. Inidicating a level of difficulty involved. And if you manual or bust guys want to feel connected to your cars, why not try driving an un-synchronized manual.?But, as I said, driving a stick is not hard to do. The stick only people act as if it is some accomplishment to drive one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Geeze defensive much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Most of the people that I know that prefer DCT are very proficient at driving manuals. Many of them are professional race drivers
0.5% of the time, hyperbole works every time.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.
Appreciate 1
trey1001125.00
      06-18-2017, 10:37 PM   #38
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY
Banned
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY's Avatar
No_Country
4992
Rep
4,139
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (1)

and i thought this thread wasn't going to become a dct vs. manual thread. what the fuck was i thinking
Appreciate 3
      06-18-2017, 10:48 PM   #39
GrussGott
Lieutenant General
GrussGott's Avatar
United_States
18113
Rep
11,746
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 Comp Indv
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Newport Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
and i thought this thread wasn't going to become a dct vs. manual thread. what the fuck was i thinking
Bimmerpost's Law: eventually all threads become manual vs DCT

Said differently, given enough time, all threads will revert to the master thread: manual vs DCT.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.
Appreciate 2
CanAutM321104.50
      06-19-2017, 12:51 AM   #40
tchiers
Private First Class
63
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: 2016 F80 M3
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Got my survey email, added to the chorus of "I bought this car because it has a manual, and if you axe it, you risk losing my business" Let's hope it helps.

I'm at least a little optimistic - I remind you all that BMW made a stick available on the F10 M5 in North America only because of the demands of the customer base here.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2017, 01:22 AM   #41
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

With all huge changes it's time for BMW to offer a "purist" version of the M3 to complement the fast version ( CS ). We need an R model. MT, NA, Hydraulic Steering, Lightened. Anyone here doubt it will sell like hot cakes and become an instant classic selling at 2x asking? I sure don't doubt it taken what happens when Porsche goes down this route.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2017, 01:45 AM   #42
Colinv6
Colonel
Colinv6's Avatar
4012
Rep
2,806
Posts

Drives: 2020 M4 comp, Mexico / Opal
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tchiers View Post
Got my survey email, added to the chorus of "I bought this car because it has a manual, and if you axe it, you risk losing my business" Let's hope it helps.

I'm at least a little optimistic - I remind you all that BMW made a stick available on the F10 M5 in North America only because of the demands of the customer base here.
I think this is the way it will go, North America will get a MT but the majority of markets won't, here in the UK we couldn't really care less anymore, we love our DCT's and to even see a manual M3/4 is a rarity.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2017, 05:48 AM   #43
trey100
Colonel
trey100's Avatar
United_States
1125
Rep
2,564
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
and i thought this thread wasn't going to become a dct vs. manual thread. what the fuck was i thinking
What happens when BMW takes away the manual option in the next iteration? Do these threads just become DCT vs an imaginary transmission ?
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2017, 06:56 AM   #44
captainaudio
World's Foremost Authority
captainaudio's Avatar
United_States
1181
Rep
4,535
Posts

Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoDivine View Post
I don't really know what to say here...
You demonstrated that with your previous post.
__________________

Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England

Last edited by captainaudio; 06-19-2017 at 09:59 AM..
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 AM.




7post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST