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      07-14-2017, 10:00 PM   #23
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Maybe in 20 years but not in 10
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      07-14-2017, 10:06 PM   #24
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poor oil countries , they going to suffer
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      07-14-2017, 10:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RABAUKE View Post
So my two cents. Lets assume that EV's are where we're going. There are lots of folks who won't be able to buy one for decades, they will continue to buy $500 beaters or $3000 used cars. What's government going to do, just stop the sale of gasoline? Governments sole purpose is to get re-elected, they won't force voters out of their cheap gas powered cars if that means getting voted out of office......they don't care more about the environment than they do about getting re-elected. Lets see how much global warming matters when push comes to shove at election time.
Good point. On the other hand I can see California just straight out banning ICE. Why? Because of what else is going on.

It's now illegal in this state to have a toilet that uses more than 1.28 gallons per flush (prior standard was 1.6 gallons per flush). Same draconian rules for all fixtures, kitchen, bath, and so on. Technically you're breaking the law if you didn't complete retrofits on 1/1/17.

Want to sell the house? Replace. Want to get a permit for a remodel or additions? Replace. Want to use the modified retro 1920s fixture you spent a ton on that uses 1 gallon/flush? Illegal. Must be destroyed. Must be manufactured to use 1.28.

Too poor to afford replacing all of your fixtures at once (thousands in some cases)? "Poverty is no excuse for non compliance" is the word from our legislators and regulators.

Meanwhile they're building 30,000 new homes 20 miles away from me. Glad we are "saving" water for the 90,000 people that will add.

/Rant

Point is folks in some states will gladly ban ICE just like ammo/gun sales, toilets and showerheads as they keep electing folks who align with the voter's wishes. Or they'll vote directly via proposition or amendments to tax it to death. Smoking would be a perfect example, voters just pushed that to the highest level in the land.

ICE may not be "out" everywhere, but I expect no ICE be reality sooner than later in this state and in many countries for the very reasons you cite: voters want it. And voters rarely take the hit/impact on the less fortunate into account in their "moral indignation" when passing laws (who this would impact the most severely).

Last edited by Finnegan; 07-14-2017 at 10:22 PM.
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      07-15-2017, 09:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Those of you who don't think the auto industry will be blindsided by this, I give you this list...
Your analogy falls well short in this instance.

Consider that:

- We are talking about an entire industry with dozens of players, not just one or two companies.

- Almost none of the corporations are sitting on their hands waiting to be pushed out by the Teslas and Lucids of the world. They are well aware of the changes coming, and they are investing heavily in EV, autonomous tech, and ride sharing.

With all the hype, what is happening right now is that misinformed hand-wavers are looking at what Tesla is doing today, ignoring the fact that they are not making any money doing it, and then drawing the incorrect conclusion that everyone else must be completely checked out, detatched from reality.

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EV will do to the ICE what ICE did to the horse and buggy, except it will happen in a much faster pace. Mark my word.
Right. But it won't happen until it is practical. This is simply not playing out on a ten year timetable. And I don't believe you think that it will either. You're not sticking you're head out and jumping on the OP's claims because you are sensible enough to see why it can't occur that quickly.

And that again, was the entire point of my post - yes, we know what's coming, but, no, it's not coming by 2027. Anyone who does think it is coming by 2027 should refer to my second post in this thread and challenge yourself to complete the exercise I gave the OP. I'll bet you can't do it, look at what you come up with, and honestly stand behind it. If you can, well, then put your money where your mouth is and start shorting the stocks - you're going to be rich, right?
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      07-15-2017, 09:31 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron_jeremy View Post
Having only ICE drivetrain is coming to an end fast, ICE will be gone in 10 years time.
I'm not so sure, I think the EV/battery technology is a long way off, lets talk about transport trucks and buses for example, the batteries that would be required to move that much weight and have the range needed aren't going to be around in 10 years (to my way of thinking anyway).

Also, this isn't a 1979 Pinto forum, it's a luxury car forum, the folks on here can afford to entertain the idea of buying a new car every couple of years. Have a look around, theres lots of folks out there who can't afford a new car, ever. So with manufactures still producing lots of ICE, those are the cars that will be being purchased used in the next 2-15 years, so the production would almost have to stop now to illuminate them in the next decade.
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      07-15-2017, 09:39 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RABAUKE View Post
I'm not so sure, I think the EV/battery technology is a long way off, lets talk about transport trucks and buses for example, the batteries that would be required to move that much weight and have the range needed aren't going to be around in 10 years (to my way of thinking anyway).

Also, this isn't a 1979 Pinto forum, it's a luxury car forum, the folks on here can afford to entertain the idea of buying a new car every couple of years. Have a look around, theres lots of folks out there who can't afford a new car, ever. So with manufactures still producing lots of ICE, those are the cars that will be being purchased used in the next 2-15 years, so the production would almost have to stop now to illuminate them in the next decade.
Agreed.

Seems to me that the people predicting the demise of ICE dont get out of the cities that they live in very much and have a very myopic view of the world

Might get some interesting answers/blank stares from the same folks if you ask them where their last 3 meals came from, how it was raised/harvested etc etc

Anyone that thinks that agriculture, trucking, logging, shipping or a raft of other industries are moving to electric any time soon is smoking crack and not considering the reality of how these industries operate and the conditions/environment they operate in.
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      07-15-2017, 09:42 AM   #29
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Bro..OP....I dont care and it wont matter to me. Im gonna have my 2 E46 M3's. Gonna Get my Toyota Tundra and an Alfa Romeo(not sure what model yet) When ICE is gone............<<This Guy>> Not a damn care in the world would be given. Go ahead drive your electrics kids
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      07-15-2017, 11:57 AM   #30
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I think the ONLY reason car companies are going to EV is politics.

If governments weren't threatening car companies with these ridiculous emission laws nobody would care wtf Tesla is doing. But government pressure is making this happen. EVs dont make a regular person's life any easier, better or cheaper.
The environmental benefits are minor at best as most new cars are very low emission vehicles already.

As the case with everything that comes from the government - be careful what u wish for. Personally I have not seen even ONE Tesla station in all of NYC and only see Teslas in multimillion dollar neighborhoods. Even if every person wanted to buy EV tomorrow there is no infrastructure that exists to support that and Tesla has nowhere close to the capacity to build all those cars.

The fact that BMW, MB, audi, Porsche are Germany based companies means they are on a lot of pressure as most of Europe is onboard that EVs are the greatest thing ever.

Last edited by R N M; 07-15-2017 at 12:05 PM.
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      07-15-2017, 12:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
I think the ONLY reason car companies are going to EV is politics.

If governments weren't threatening car companies with these ridiculous emission laws nobody would care wtf Tesla is doing. But government pressure is making this happen. EVs dont make a regular person's life any easier, better or cheaper.
The environmental benefits are minor at best as most new cars are very low emission vehicles already.

As the case with everything that comes from the government - be careful what u wish for. Personally I have not seen even ONE Tesla station in all of NYC and only see Teslas in multimillion dollar neighborhoods. Even if every person wanted to buy EV tomorrow there is no infrastructure that exists to support that and Tesla has nowhere close to the capacity to build all those cars.

The fact that BMW, MB, audi, Porsche are Germany based companies means they are on a lot of pressure as most of Europe is onboard that EVs are the greatest thing ever.
That and subsidies making hypebrids and EV's closer to being competitive.....

Remove the subsidies and incentives and they have a very hard time being competitive
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      07-15-2017, 03:28 PM   #32
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Not until my dad's generation is gone. He wants good ol fashioned gasoline not no computerized electro jetsons mobiles. Cars go vroom vroom not buzz buzz
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      07-15-2017, 07:28 PM   #33
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something like 13000 EV's sold in Canada last year, how many of those were bought by government for fleet vehicles, or other government agencies and corp. that just want subsidies. I suspect that the actual front line consumer purchasers aren't worth mentioning.

were way more than a decade away from full ev conversion.
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      07-15-2017, 07:46 PM   #34
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The Top Gear take on EV's

I give you Jeremy Clarkson:

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      07-15-2017, 08:49 PM   #35
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Um, no. More likely by far is tesla is out of business and ev cars are still a novelty.
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      07-15-2017, 09:02 PM   #36
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So these will become useless?
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      07-15-2017, 09:11 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RABAUKE View Post
I give you Jeremy Clarkson:

So true. Multiply the battery envirimental waste vs prius, add $15,000 in upfront cost you could spend buying 225,000 miles worth of gas, and I give you the EV with limited range and long refueling times. Sounds like the future to me.
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      07-15-2017, 09:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
I think the ONLY reason car companies are going to EV is politics.

If governments weren't threatening car companies with these ridiculous emission laws nobody would care wtf Tesla is doing. But government pressure is making this happen. EVs dont make a regular person's life any easier, better or cheaper.
The environmental benefits are minor at best as most new cars are very low emission vehicles already.

As the case with everything that comes from the government - be careful what u wish for. Personally I have not seen even ONE Tesla station in all of NYC and only see Teslas in multimillion dollar neighborhoods. Even if every person wanted to buy EV tomorrow there is no infrastructure that exists to support that and Tesla has nowhere close to the capacity to build all those cars.

The fact that BMW, MB, audi, Porsche are Germany based companies means they are on a lot of pressure as most of Europe is onboard that EVs are the greatest thing ever.
Yes but that's changing. We finally got the admin pushing the bogus climate change agenda out of office.
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      07-16-2017, 02:34 AM   #39
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Where's the electric to power all these electric cars going to come from?
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      07-16-2017, 03:29 AM   #40
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No worries when ICE is gone self driving will be mandatory and I'll be too old to care
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      07-16-2017, 10:22 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Chappers 71 View Post
Where's the electric to power all these electric cars going to come from?
There you go again inserting logic into the equasion

I'd like to know what these folks think they're going to do when the power periodically goes out?

Its not uncommon for folks to lose power for a day or more.....hell we lost power a couple years back for 9 days due to a storm

I'll take that diesel wagon I have that will go 550 miles without refueling over an EV that might go 225 miles and then has to be charged....with my generator that runs on petrol? WTF
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      07-16-2017, 11:10 AM   #42
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1. fossil fuels are a limited resource. we will continue to use petroleum for other industries even if transport turns to ICE. we need to save as much as possible.

2. EV will eventually take over the ICE. That's no question. Not in a decade, but maybe in our lifetime. The cars have proven themselves. There are many different ways to have a aero emissions vehicle without the use of batteries (hydrogen for example). It's the infrastructure that is the issue.

3. If you like cars, then you must realize that we NEED EVs on the road as soon as possible. Despite what the narrow minded think, electric vehicles will SAVE the ICE. By conserving the amount of fossil fuel we have left, the EV will be the main transport for everyone whereas the ICE will continue to be for the enthusiasts... weekend joy rides, Motorsport, etc. Think about horses being used for recreational purposes. Tld the same thing for the ICE.

4. There is absolutely no reason why ANYONE should be against the development of electric power in automotive applications. Hey have proven themselves in economy, emissions, and motorsport. They will continue to become better and better while at the same time being the saving grace of the ICE that we grew to know and love.
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      07-16-2017, 11:30 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danniexi View Post
1. fossil fuels are a limited resource. we will continue to use petroleum for other industries even if transport turns to ICE. we need to save as much as possible.

2. EV will eventually take over the ICE. That's no question. Not in a decade, but maybe in our lifetime. The cars have proven themselves. There are many different ways to have a aero emissions vehicle without the use of batteries (hydrogen for example). It's the infrastructure that is the issue.

3. If you like cars, then you must realize that we NEED EVs on the road as soon as possible. Despite what the narrow minded think, electric vehicles will SAVE the ICE. By conserving the amount of fossil fuel we have left, the EV will be the main transport for everyone whereas the ICE will continue to be for the enthusiasts... weekend joy rides, Motorsport, etc. Think about horses being used for recreational purposes. Tld the same thing for the ICE.

4. There is absolutely no reason why ANYONE should be against the development of electric power in automotive applications. Hey have proven themselves in economy, emissions, and motorsport. They will continue to become better and better while at the same time being the saving grace of the ICE that we grew to know and love.
Who pays for all the extra power stations that would have to be built & what about the emissions from them?
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      07-16-2017, 11:39 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RABAUKE View Post
I'm not so sure, I think the EV/battery technology is a long way off, lets talk about transport trucks and buses for example, the batteries that would be required to move that much weight and have the range needed aren't going to be around in 10 years (to my way of thinking anyway).

Also, this isn't a 1979 Pinto forum, it's a luxury car forum, the folks on here can afford to entertain the idea of buying a new car every couple of years. Have a look around, theres lots of folks out there who can't afford a new car, ever. So with manufactures still producing lots of ICE, those are the cars that will be being purchased used in the next 2-15 years, so the production would almost have to stop now to illuminate them in the next decade.
Come on Man, you had to go to "this isn't a 1979 Pinto forum"? I owned 4 Pintos, either a '72 or '73 (the '79s sucked). They were a decent car for the day.
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