Car & Driver trashes the 7er

[lowlevelhell]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review

[AlteBMW]

Thanks for the link. I don't get C&D any longer. Tired of their puerile prose. The review is not that far off, however. I happen to think Integral Active Steering is a must in this car and changes the way it handles dramatically. The car I test drove for 3 days a year ago did not have it. I ordered it with mine (delivered end of November 16) and the difference is quite noticeable. Does it make the 7 handle like a 3? No. More like a 5, but if you want 3 series handling, you'd better get a 3/4 series. If you want old style BMW handling, get an M2. I have a 3 wagon, but I prefer the 7. Maybe because I am an old fart now, but I have driven a lot of cars in my time, and my current 7 is my favorite.

[lowlevelhell]

Originally Posted by Weinschela

Thanks for the link. I don't get C&D any longer. Tired of their puerile prose. The review is not that far off, however. I happen to think Integral Active Steering is a must in this car and changes the way it handles dramatically. The car I test drove for 3 days a year ago did not have it. I ordered it with mine (delivered end of November 16) and the difference is quite noticeable. Does it make the 7 handle like a 3? No. More like a 5, but if you want 3 series handling, you'd better get a 3/4 series. If you want old style BMW handling, get an M2. I have a 3 wagon, but I prefer the 7. Maybe because I am an old fart now, but I have driven a lot of cars in my time, and my current 7 is my favorite.

Everyone who pays more for a handling option swears it's a must, and that all cars without it are undriveable.

The biggest failing of modern auto journalism is that they've created this idea that any body roll makes a suspension crap, which is a very shallow way to judge a suspension's characteristics.

[AlteBMW]

Originally Posted by lowlevelhell

Everyone who pays more for a handling option swears it's a must, and that all cars without it are undriveable.

The biggest failing of modern auto journalism is that they've created this idea that any body roll makes a suspension crap, which is a very shallow way to judge a suspension's characteristics.

It's only a must for me. And yes I agree about body roll. Nevertheless, the 7 will not handle like a 3 series. Just as a S class will not handle like a C class or an A8 will not handle like an A4. Unreasonable expectations will always lead to disappointment. Reviews should not compare 7 series to smaller BMWs as the conclusion will almost have to be that BMW has "lost its way." Compare a 7 to other cars in its class. They're all a series of trade-offs. I just happen to like the trade off choices BMW has made better than the MB trade off choices. I owned an S class, and E classes, (still have an E class wagon (PLEASE bring 5 series wagons to the US!!!)). I also owned an Audi A4 and A6. I just happen to like my 7 very much as my current choice. That does not mean anyone choosing something else is making a bad choice; it only means it is the right choice for me.

[lowlevelhell]

Originally Posted by Weinschela

It's only a must for me. And yes I agree about body roll. Nevertheless, the 7 will not handle like a 3 series. Just as a S class will not handle like a C class or an A8 will not handle like an A4. Unreasonable expectations will always lead to disappointment. Reviews should not compare 7 series to smaller BMWs as the conclusion will almost have to be that BMW has "lost its way." Compare a 7 to other cars in its class. They're all a series of trade-offs. I just happen to like the trade off choices BMW has made better than the MB trade off choices. I owned an S class, and E classes, (still have an E class wagon (PLEASE bring 5 series wagons to the US!!!)). I also owned an Audi A4 and A6. I just happen to like my 7 very much as my current choice. That does not mean anyone choosing something else is making a bad choice; it only means it is the right choice for me.

Couldn't agree more. All the journos are convinced that any Bimmer that doesn't handle like an E46 is the death knell of BMW.

[Nivarox]

I generally like Car And Driver reviews but this review had some kiboshes, some thrash words to blemish G11 7 Series sorry I wouldn't buy either of these at all
When you have a hi tech LED display key you will eventually have to charge it just like any other battery operated device , do you understand you test writers , staffs ?
It's a physical and centrifugal force that the heavier the car the less agile it is ,what's wrong with some body roll unless it doesn't put the handling into danger
G11 7 Series the best 7 Series ever made

[TXSTYLE]

I was at my dealership last week for service and again spent some time inside and out with a new loaded out 7. From the inside, things are lovely! Even though I still can't get over the tablet sticking out of the dash! But what really let's me down is the ultra bland exterior styling. I actually like the new 5er more. Of course it's too cramped in the back seats for me to consider.
The G11 literally looks like a 4 Series that has been enlarged.
Case in point... I was dining at the new Del Frisco's at Legacy West recently and there are always exceptional cars valet up front. There was a new G11, Panamera Turbo, S Class, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, and Audi R8 next to each other. The G11 didn't command attention like the others.
I believe the forthcoming 8 Series is a whole other story and will hold its own no matter what's parked beside it.

[Dash52]

Wow...I love my 2017 740i Msport, etc. All Black. It drives like a big luxury car. I replaced my 2015 X5 and its night and day. NO complaints. Too many S class cars on the road where I live. Panamera Turbo looks like a swollen Porsche. Rolls Royce?Bentley? BMW different car for a lot less...still turns heads.

[hinckley]

I don't think that this article is particularly unfair. Traditionally, the 7 distinguished itself from the rest of the class by being the sports car of luxo barges. But the 7 - as well as most of the BMW lineup - has moved more mainstream/luxury. That's no crime as it sells more cars and makes the company more profitable. But it's left the 7 in kind of a no man's land, especially this tester with the smaller engine and none of the sportier kit (including M Sport pack). So we're left with a vehicle that drives like an S Class, but is not as stylish inside or out . . . a nice car without any attribute that sets it apart from the class leaders.

[TheBry]

Originally Posted by lowlevelhell

Couldn't agree more. All the journos are convinced that any Bimmer that doesn't handle like an E46 is the death knell of BMW.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by hinckley

I don't think that this article is particularly unfair. Traditionally, the 7 distinguished itself from the rest of the class by being the sports car of luxo barges. But the 7 - as well as most of the BMW lineup - has moved more mainstream/luxury. That's no crime as it sells more cars and makes the company more profitable. But it's left the 7 in kind of a no man's land, especially this tester with the smaller engine and none of the sportier kit (including M Sport pack). So we're left with a vehicle that drives like an S Class, but is not as stylish inside or out . . . a nice car without any attribute that sets it apart from the class leaders.

I previously owned a 2012 F02 740Li. I stepped up to that car from a 2008 E93 M3 (the only V8 ever offered in an M3). I now own a 2016 G12 750i (my second 7-Series).

I have a pretty long work commute (45 miles each way) and have put a LOT of highway miles on my G12 -- daily driver. I can say hands-down that the G12 kicks the F02's ass in terms of driving dynamics and "feel". The key here was the move from a semi-air suspension (where the F02 only offered air shocks in the rear and traditional shocks up front) to having an adjustable four-wheel air suspension with Adaptive mode. This car glides over imperfections, and tightens up in curves. It's pretty incredible, but I did pay a premium for that experience, by optioning the hell out of the car (basically ticking every box when ordering) and am fully aware of that.

I took the car in for service earlier this week, and was given a loaner -- a 2017 330i. The loaner has very few options. I've had the loaner 330i for three days, while the dealer waits for tires to arrive, and let me tell you I cannot WAIT to be back in my G12 750i -- for the ride and handling, but also for the interior which is leaps and bounds above anything available in a 3 Series.

Bottom line: articles like the C&D review are always subjective and rarely compare apples to apples. BMW wouldn't be making these cars if people didn't want them.

[AlteBMW]

Similar experience here. I had some bumper damage that needed to be repaired so from last Friday to yesterday I drove my 328ix (wagon). Sure, its a 3 series, and it handles like the small car it is. It is a fine car. But I could not wait to get back into my G12.

[talaipwros]

“This car soaks up miles like a sponge. It rides almost as well as a Rolls-Royce and is nearly as quiet to my ear.” —K.C. Colwell, senior technical editor

sounds like a praise to me!

[NewQ]

Maybe.

It does ride pretty well, but mine thunks harder than I would expect over potholes and drain covers, and speed bumps make it porpoise.

I thought this Active Comfort Drive with Road Preview camera system was supposed to prep the suspension for this and even out bumps and potholes, especially speed bumps.

I can't say whether the competition would be any better without some objective back-to-back comparison though. The S-Class's Magic Body Control certainly glides over speed bumps like it's no problem, and the new A8 teasers seem to indicate a similar level of sophistication.

Maybe the 7's equivalent system isn't as good.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by talaipwros

“This car soaks up miles like a sponge. It rides almost as well as a Rolls-Royce and is nearly as quiet to my ear.” —K.C. Colwell, senior technical editor

sounds like a praise to me!

I was thinking the same thing. This article was candid, but it didn't trash the new 7.

[TheBry]

Originally Posted by NewQ

I thought this Active Comfort Drive with Road Preview camera system was supposed to prep the suspension for this and even out bumps and potholes, especially speed bumps.

It does a great job of that. One of my favorite features on my G12 750i.

Bear in mind, the Active Comfort Drive with Road Preview (Executive Drive Pro?) is only active when in Adaptive Mode. You should also ensure there is sufficient space between your car and the car in front of you so the cameras can effectively read the road ahead. I find about three car lengths does the trick at highway speeds.

[NewQ]

Originally Posted by TheBry

It does a great job of that. One of my favorite features on my G12 750i.

Bear in mind, the Active Comfort Drive with Road Preview (Executive Drive Pro?) is only active when in Adaptive Mode. You should also ensure there is sufficient space between your car and the car in front of you so the cameras can effectively read the road ahead. I find about three car lengths does the trick at highway speeds.

I've struggled with this for a while now. I've had the car for over a year, and have seen conflicting documentation as to whether the camera functions just in Adaptive or in all modes. Some say it only works in Adaptive, some BMW documentation seems to suggest it works in all modes, but it doesn't explicitly state it.

I'm also in the upper Midwest, so our roads may be so bad, the camera just can't keep up.

[TheBry]

Originally Posted by NewQ

I've struggled with this for a while now. I've had the car for over a year, and have seen conflicting documentation as to whether the camera functions just in Adaptive or in all modes. Some say it only works in Adaptive, some BMW documentation seems to suggest it works in all modes, but it doesn't explicitly state it.

I'm also in the upper Midwest, so our roads may be so bad, the camera just can't keep up.

I had the same conflict, as an early adopter (received my factory ordered G12 in early April 2016). Some would say the road preview cameras only worked in Adaptive mode, while others said the road preview cameras were active in all modes. I drive 45 miles to work each way every day (90 total every day), so, since I drive the same route / roads daily, when I took delivery of the car, I did some testing of my own. Within the span of a single week, I drove an entire day in Comfort Plus mode, and used that as the floor -- the softest and least responsive the car would be on the highway. It was a great ride, if not a little waft-y. The next day, I drove in Comfort mode. The ride was a tad stiffer, yet still very compliant and comfortable. On the third day, I drove in Adaptive mode. For the most part, Adaptive mode "felt" like Comfort mode at highway speeds, however, I noticed slightly better chassis composure when rolling over expansion joints in the highway (at speed). To my rear-end, firmly planted in the driver seat, this sensation confirmed the system was doing what it was supposed to do -- but only in Adaptive mode.

One other thing about Adaptive mode is the system sensing your driving style -- the system can seamlessly move between a more luxury or sport oriented driving style dynamically. Sliding into the more sporty end of the spectrum seems to be gated by speed. You've got to be traveling over 81 MPH for the suspension to tighten up. Give it a shot, and you'll see what I'm talking about (of course, you'll be significantly breaking speed laws on most highways).

I've also tested Adaptive mode with and without navigation guidance, and noticed a bit of a difference there as well. As advertised, when I had route guidance running, the car knew in advance about upcoming curves in the highway, and I sensed the transmission downshifting (one gear), and the suspension stiffening ever-so-slightly, when I entered those bends. To confirm this, I drove home that day without route guidance active, and the chassis didn't exhibit any sense of having predicted those same curves. Very subtle, but the nav feature combined with Adaptive mode works as advertised.

[NewQ]

That's interesting. I haven't done an analysis to that level of detail.

To keep the thread on topic, I would usually want the softest setting, so maybe Comfort Plus is what would be closest to the "Rolls-Royce" ride referenced in the review.

[c63er]

My biggest complaint with the 7 is the interior. It always feels like what a 12 year thinks luxury is, big buttons and cheesy lcd displays. Feels also a bit like a what someone from the 80s would think the future was.

There's overall just way too much going on in there.

Bmw missed the point of what makes true luxury in a car like this and seemed to have gone with non us focus groups in designing the interior and it came out a bit like some kind of homer mobile on the inside with a 2x splash of cheesy.

The 7er is a big outlier in the interior mood compared to German rivals right now. I think it will work for the random tech head who doesn't understand true luxury, but otherwise would fall flat.

Interior is a huge factor in this segment.

Exterior is of course magnificent.