Another interview w/ Frank van Meel, Head of BMW M (from Automotive Engineer)

[KevinM]

Look, I love old-school normally-aspirated M cars as much as anyone. Heck, I've been daily driving my E39 M5 for 11 years and have owned a Z4M coup since 2007. I just picked up my F80. Is it different? Yes. Is it fun? Hell yes. Am I glad that M is still able to make such cars, and with a manual transmission option at that? You bet. I'd certainly rather have that than M (or even BMW) be out of business or be swallowed up by a larger car company.

In terms of M badges, while I tend to agree with the sentiment that they are thrown around with abandon, BMW needs be be competitive in the market. Audi has their S series in addition to their RS performance cars, and now Mercedes is putting non-AMG engines in fully badged AMG cars (e.g., the new SLC43).

Long live M. I'll keep my old ones forever, but will still drive new ones until I don't find them fun to drive (or they take away my manual transmission, whichever comes first).

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Look, I love old-school normally-aspirated M cars as much as anyone. Heck, I've been daily driving my E39 M5 for 11 years and have owned a Z4M coup since 2007. I just picked up my F80. Is it different? Yes. Is it fun? Hell yes. Am I glad that M is still able to make such cars, and with a manual transmission option at that? You bet. I'd certainly rather have that than M (or even BMW) be out of business or be swallowed up by a larger car company.

In terms of M badges, while I tend to agree with the sentiment that they are thrown around with abandon, BMW needs be be competitive in the market. Audi has their S series in addition to their RS performance cars, and now Mercedes is putting non-AMG engines in fully badged AMG cars (e.g., the new SLC43).

Long live M. I'll keep my old ones forever, but will still drive new ones until I don't find them fun to drive (or they take away my manual transmission, whichever comes first).

Yep we had a new loaner 3er over the weekend. Same car as mine essentially but with sports suspension and thicker steering wheel... Covered in M badges

///Meaningless

[W///]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Look, I love old-school normally-aspirated M cars as much as anyone. Heck, I've been daily driving my E39 M5 for 11 years and have owned a Z4M coup since 2007. I just picked up my F80. Is it different? Yes. Is it fun? Hell yes. Am I glad that M is still able to make such cars, and with a manual transmission option at that? You bet. I'd certainly rather have that than M (or even BMW) be out of business or be swallowed up by a larger car company.

In terms of M badges, while I tend to agree with the sentiment that they are thrown around with abandon, BMW needs be be competitive in the market. Audi has their S series in addition to their RS performance cars, and now Mercedes is putting non-AMG engines in fully badged AMG cars (e.g., the new SLC43).

Long live M. I'll keep my old ones forever, but will still drive new ones until I don't find them fun to drive (or they take away my manual transmission, whichever comes first).

I honestly think the MT will go first, but we'll see. At that point, I'll bow out myself, and start getting more old school M's. I also want an 8 series at some point.

That's the thing I don't understand. I'll have 3 M3's by early next year I hope. I don't expect them to be the same cars. As a matter of fact, I'm glad they are different.

Not sure why people think that BMW will make another E30 M3.

[Bimmer-Mac]

It seems to me that ///M is currently trying to rebrand itself by adding more M-Performance models and others that it wouldn't have produced in the past (i.e. X5/6).

I think that as consumers and BMW-lovers, we should just learn to embrace the M-Perf. models. BMW is marketing these directly to Audi's S models and Mercedes-AMG models. "S" and "AMG" sound more appealing to the average consumer, and by BMW adding the M-Performance it sounds like it's more aligned with he competition.

I have a feeling that the electrification might not neccesarily be just hybridization- it might be something more like what Audi has done with the new SQ7/Bentyga where a 48-Volt system help to reduce turbo lag. To me, that would be a technology I would fully support in a full-bore ///M model.

[raysspl]

This is a nice interview piece shrouded by marketing speak

[JRobUSC]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

Synopsis: BMW’s M division used to lead the competition by producing iconic performance cars, but those days are long gone for M in particular and BMW in general. BMW will continue proliferating the market with predictable, M-badged, turbocharged products, while resting on the laurels and legacy of yesteryear’s iconic M cars. Finally, we will continue cashing in on our long-ago-earned reputation for as long as we possibly can.

Did you read a different article? Because I didn't see any of what you just said in his comments.

[bunker]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

Synopsis: BMW’s M division used to lead the competition by producing iconic performance cars, but those days are long gone for M in particular and BMW in general. BMW will continue proliferating the market with predictable, M-badged, turbocharged products, while resting on the laurels and legacy of yesteryear’s iconic M cars. Finally, we will continue cashing in on our long-ago-earned reputation for as long as we possibly can.

I don't think "synopsis" means what you think it means...

[chris82]

Originally Posted by eau_rouge

"Hybrid powertrains are just a matter of time because it depends on the progress in electrification."

Hi guys!

I've just received the copy of the british trade magazine "Automotive Engineer", which is the official magazine of the European Cooperation of Automotive Engineers.

There is yet another interview with the head of the M division, Frank van Meel. As Automotive Engineer focuses on topics like powertrain and drivetrain, the interview is about the powertrain concepts and carbon fibre usage within the M GmbH in the near future. There is a lot of talk about the electric, M-badged vehicle as well, but please, see and read for yourself.

PDF is attached as well, for better reading experience.


Attachment 1442028

Attachment 1442029

The fact that he's posing in front of one of the SUVs really says a lot....

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Mac

It seems to me that ///M is currently trying to rebrand itself by adding more M-Performance models and others that it wouldn't have produced in the past (i.e. X5/6).

Guess you are aware that the X5M has been around for at least 7 years. Not exactly a current development.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Mac

It seems to me that ///M is currently trying to rebrand itself by adding more M-Performance models and others that it wouldn't have produced in the past (i.e. X5/6).

I think that as consumers and BMW-lovers, we should just learn to embrace the M-Perf. models. BMW is marketing these directly to Audi's S models and Mercedes-AMG models. "S" and "AMG" sound more appealing to the average consumer, and by BMW adding the M-Performance it sounds like it's more aligned with he competition.

I have a feeling that the electrification might not neccesarily be just hybridization- it might be something more like what Audi has done with the new SQ7/Bentyga where a 48-Volt system help to reduce turbo lag. To me, that would be a technology I would fully support in a full-bore ///M model.

Evaluation of an M version of the X5 began a very long time ago. F90 M5 will have a 48v electrical system...

[Bimmer-Mac]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Guess you are aware that the X5M has been around for at least 7 years. Not exactly a current development.

Yeah, I know it has, but I would argue it was still the first of BMW really starting to change what ///M was. Just look how the E53 X5 had it's "regular" models, then instead of a X5M it had the X5 4.8is.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Mac

Yeah, I know it has, but I would argue it was still the first of BMW really starting to change what ///M was. Just look how the E53 X5 had it's "regular" models, then instead of a X5M it had the X5 4.8is.

So what is ///M exactly?

[Nothing]

Can we politely ask him to stop sticking the M badge all over non-M cars. I know that might not be a popular request but let's face it, if you use the M designation on non-M specific cars you really water down the meaning of the brand. Look at Lexus with the F line. They are so desperate to get their F branding to catch on it's almost an option on every model. It's just a sporty bumper and some wheels. Let the IS-F and RC-F stand for something. The same goes with the M cars. My E46 330Ci had M stickers on the wheels and the steering wheel. It made no difference to the car. So why have them? Ford doesn't shove RS and SVT on cars that don't deserve it.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Nothing

Can we politely ask him to stop sticking the M badge all over non-M cars. I know that might not be a popular request but let's face it, if you use the M designation on non-M specific cars you really water down the meaning of the brand. Look at Lexus with the F line. They are so desperate to get their F branding to catch on it's almost an option on every model. It's just a sporty bumper and some wheels. Let the IS-F and RC-F stand for something. The same goes with the M cars. My E46 330Ci had M stickers on the wheels and the steering wheel. It made no difference to the car. So why have them? Ford doesn't shove RS and SVT on cars that don't deserve it.

That would require time travel back to 1978 to prevent the E12 M535i from seeing the light of day. M 3 digit and M Technik models have a longer history than M single digit regular production models.

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

I had the pleasure of driving a C Coupe for an extended period of time. That package is superior to the 4 series. BMW needs to step up their game. We're falling behind. I'm all for innovation, and moving forward. It just hurts to see cars like the AMG GT, and the Rebadged VW R8 halo cars, while BMW is putting out 'Special Edition' cars like the M6 Competition Edition or our Halo car, the i8. Our competitors are thriving with Twin Turbo V8's and naturally aspirated V10's.

I understand that times have changed, but we can't just rest on our laurels. It's a sad day when you start hearing a Mercedes is 'more fun' to drive than it's BMW counterpart.

They are all the same, dude. Relax. They are all mass produced cars.

How does the ture AMG compare to the true M? Exactly

[Golfgeek]

Originally Posted by bunker

I don't think "synopsis" means what you think it means...

"You keep using that word..."

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Good read IMO.
Meel addressing electric power in a "pure M" was interesting nomenclature.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by MrBens

Oups... "V6 engine" ?

doesn't surprise me that the head of M (the way things have been going) doesn't have a clue what engines are going into the cars.

[ABPReader]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

doesn't surprise me that the head of M (the way things have been going) doesn't have a clue what engines are going into the cars.

Even BMW's website talk about v6 engines..

[vladberca]

M2, M3, 4 with Comp Pack, MT available for all of them... these are some good signs from M Division.
Curious to see the next Z5...
M Pack is a big plus for the fans who like the sporty design. Not everyone can have / need an M Car.. so there is something available for everyone

[Law]

Originally Posted by miamiten

That would require time travel back to 1978 to prevent the E12 M535i from seeing the light of day. M 3 digit and M Technik models have a longer history than M single digit regular production models.

You see, BMW's marketing has worked because this is exactly what they want people to think, that the current MPAs are some sort of offspring or descendants of the M535i, when it is far from the truth.

The M535i wasn't just a 5er with a sport package slapped with M-badges to help it sell better.
It was available only with a dogleg manual transmission and was equipped with a standard LSD from the factory (not "port install" or "dealer install").
Chassis and suspension components were modified/strengthened, shocks made by Bilstein, wheels by BBS, brake rotors had a thicker and vented construction, and Recaro seats were standard equipment.
Final assembly was finished by hand at the BMW Motorsport GmbH facility in Preussenstrasse.
Where it fell short of being a "full" Motorsport vehicle was that the motor was an M30 (BMW AG motor).
That all changed when they took the same formula above but stuck the M1's motor into the engine bay with the E28, spawning first M5.

Based on the above formula, neither the M235i or the X4 M40i, etc. are similar in philosophy or quality of construction.
The only thing they have in common is the "M" badge whilst not being full M-cars.
But understand that the M535i was developed by BMW Motorsport GmbH as a special vehicle, not as a segment filler designed to follow market trends.
That's the difference.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Law

You see, BMW's marketing has worked because this is exactly what they want people to think, that the current MPAs are some sort of offspring or descendants of the M535i, when it is far from the truth.

The M535i wasn't just a 5er with a sport package slapped with M-badges to help it sell better.
It was available only with a dogleg manual transmission and was equipped with a standard LSD from the factory (not "port install" or "dealer install").
Chassis and suspension components were modified/strengthened, shocks made by Bilstein, wheels by BBS, brake rotors had a thicker and vented construction, and Recaro seats were standard equipment.
Final assembly was finished by hand at the BMW Motorsport GmbH facility in Preussenstrasse.
Where it fell short of being a "full" Motorsport vehicle was that the motor was an M30 (BMW AG motor).
That all changed when they took the same formula above but stuck the M1's motor into the engine bay with the E28, spawning first M5.

Based on the above formula, neither the M235i or the X4 M40i, etc. are similar in philosophy or quality of construction.
The only thing they have in common is the "M" badge whilst not being full M-cars.
But understand that the M535i was developed by BMW Motorsport GmbH as a special vehicle, not as a segment filler designed to follow market trends.
That's the difference.

Actually, you'd be surprised how much work in conjunction with the folks at Garching goes into those MPA's.

Can't say the same about the Msports.

Still though, I've said it many times. All I care about is the car I'm driving. Not once have I cared when a 5GT Msport has pulled up next to me at the light while I'm in my E92 M3 about how that car is diluting the M brand. It's just 100% irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. If it helps them build cars like the M4 GTS or something like a 911 fighter, then great.

No different than how the 911 guys were bitching about how there are Porsche SUV's everywhere. Who cares?