BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   7Post - 7 Series Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-15-2014, 12:15 AM   #1
aus
Major General
United_States
888
Rep
9,031
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (10)

Revolutionary turbo tech from MB of all places

I saw this on the Road and Track Facebook wall and thought it was pretty cool.
They deconstructed a turbo so the turbine with exhaust gases are in the back of the engine while the compressor is up front via a shaft through the engine.



Hot gases stay in back away from the intake side.
Imagine such a turbo crossing the block of the I6 in the S55? That would be revolutionary. Have all the exhaust gases on the right side and the intake air on the left side.

.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 12:41 AM   #2
gago1101
Private
gago1101's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
98
Posts

Drives: '18 911 GT3
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
I saw this on the Road and Track Facebook wall and thought it was pretty cool.
Hope this translates into MB building real sports cars for the road from the ground up rather than boats turned into high-horsepower cars.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 01:29 AM   #3
mark0006
Banned
0
Rep
6
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

That looks awesome, lets see which tuner will develop a turbo like this for a street car.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 06:38 AM   #4
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Cool tidbit, thanks for sharing

Very smart folks at work here

I guess one of the drawback of such a system in the increased inertia caused by the long shaft that slows down turbo response. Having the electric motor/generator on the turbo most likely compensates for the added inertia.

However, IMO, this setup would not be effective on a conventional non-electrically driven turbo and would result in too much lag.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 07:13 AM   #5
Imola3
Second Lieutenant
Imola3's Avatar
324
Rep
237
Posts

Drives: Mk.7 Golf R
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

They are dominating in F1 now because of this. Brilliant engineering if you ask me
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 07:22 AM   #6
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I am a bit puzzled by the thread title though.

Revolutionary turbo tech from MB of all places.

While it is true that MB are not necessarily renowned for their sports cars, innovation has continuously been partof their history. Many technology firsts appeared on MB vehicles. Heck, the two founders independently and concurently invented the gas powered motor vehicle .

Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-15-2014 at 03:18 PM..
Appreciate 1
      04-15-2014, 07:35 AM   #7
/// M sa
Major
/// M sa's Avatar
240
Rep
1,418
Posts

Drives: F80 MG
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Delmarva

iTrader: (0)

I have said it all along, turbo engines are the way of the future.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 12:47 PM   #8
ybbiz34
Brigadier General
ybbiz34's Avatar
670
Rep
4,959
Posts

Drives: 2023 330i M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by //M sa View Post
I have said it all along, turbo engines are the way of the future.
The way of the future, indeed.



Also, this thread probably belongs in the General Automotive sub-forum.
__________________
Current: '23 G20 M Sport 330i
Current: '20 X253 GLC300 SUV
Gone: '20 W205 C43 Sedan
Gone: '18 W205 C43 Sedan
Gone: '13 W204 C63 Sedan
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 12:52 PM   #9
ybbiz34
Brigadier General
ybbiz34's Avatar
670
Rep
4,959
Posts

Drives: 2023 330i M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gago1101 View Post
Hope this translates into MB building real sports cars for the road from the ground up rather than boats turned into high-horsepower cars.
You mean boats like these?



__________________
Current: '23 G20 M Sport 330i
Current: '20 X253 GLC300 SUV
Gone: '20 W205 C43 Sedan
Gone: '18 W205 C43 Sedan
Gone: '13 W204 C63 Sedan
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 02:01 PM   #10
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
You mean boats like these?



The SLS amg is so badass......the SLS BLACK is even more badass. Not a fan of the c class amg's much anymore. But very curious what the new one will look like - for some reason the C class gets so dated so quick.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 02:02 PM   #11
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

I'm pretty sure 90% of the ppl on here would take an ///M6 over this boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
You mean boats like these?

Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 02:06 PM   #12
Arcoril
Second Lieutenant
United_States
112
Rep
210
Posts

Drives: 991 C2S, AP2 S2000
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Torrance, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gago1101 View Post
Hope this translates into MB building real sports cars for the road from the ground up rather than boats turned into high-horsepower cars.
Right. Because the current M5, M6, M6 GC, X5M, and X6M are really light and agile.

Based on what insiders are saying, the upcoming W205 C63 sheds a fair number of pounds over the current W204 and will likely be comparable to the F80/F82 in terms of weight. The upcoming 911-fighting SLC is also being tuned by the same person who tuned the 991 Carrera. So yes, MB does have some serious cars on the horizon.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 02:09 PM   #13
JoeFromPA
Colonel
1791
Rep
2,995
Posts

Drives: '15 AW M3 6MT Stripper
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SE PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Cool tidbit, thanks for sharing

Very smart folks at work here

I guess one of the drawback of such a system in the increased inertia caused by the long shaft that slows down turbo response. Having the electric motor/generator on the turbo most likely compensates for the added inertia.

However, IMO, this setup would not be effective on a conventional non-electrically driven turbo and would result in too much lag.
Have you seen the shaft size on many supercharger configurations? Granted, they are belt driven, but still - it's all about the engineering behind it.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 02:10 PM   #14
ss134
Brigadier General
ss134's Avatar
United Kingdom
229
Rep
3,899
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Germany/UK

iTrader: (1)

Merc are on a bit of a roll and some of their new cars are getting rave reviews- the A45 AMG has been universally praised for it's handling , suspension and motor. It has trounced the M135i in every comparo I've read despite when optioned the same not being much more expensive. Normal BMW wins such as the steering , suspension, handling and fun factor were not evident and went to the Merc and despite the M135i being a great car it seems Merc have upped their game while BMW continue to soften their cars for the masses. Worrying times ahead for BMW.
Let's hope they get the M3/4 right because I'm betting the new C63 will be a great car. The last gen just fell short as a drivers car but was close in many instances to taking the M3s crown in this segment. The AMGs have always had fantastic motors but could this be the gen where Merc finally steals BMWs thunder on handling and fun as well?
Can't wait for first reviews of the new Ms - the M5 and 6 no longer outshine their competitors in the same way their predecessors did- let's hope the M3/4 can bring back some old school BMW magic because at the moment I feel that BMWs reputation as the keen drivers choice ( including M) are living off their history and great cars from the past- new M3/4 need to be great.
__________________
2014 AW F80 M3 DCT
2011 AW E90 M3 DCT - Sold
2010 JZB E90 M3 DCT - Sold
2009 6MT E90 LCI 335i M -Sport - Sold

Last edited by ss134; 04-15-2014 at 02:17 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 02:16 PM   #15
Gonven
Lieutenant
Gonven's Avatar
623
Rep
568
Posts

Drives: BMW X6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Portugal

iTrader: (0)

What a great idea , thanks for posting this
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 02:47 PM   #16
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
2067
Rep
8,898
Posts

Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Mercedes innovation

Very cool. Not so surprising that Mercedes is innovating since Gottlieb Daimler patented the technique of using a gear-driven pump to force air into an internal combustion engine in 1885. I was just at the Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart and saw some very cool stuff.
Attached Images
 
__________________

Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA
2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 03:04 PM   #17
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Have you seen the shaft size on many supercharger configurations? Granted, they are belt driven, but still - it's all about the engineering behind it.
I am not sure what you want to imply... superchargers and turbos are very different animals.

A supercharger is mechanically connected to the engine so its speed is directly proportional to the engine speed regardless of load. A supercharger compressor spins at a much lower speed than a turbo and therefore needs to be much bigger to supply the same mass flow. Due the larger size of the compressor, the lower rotational speed and how it is driven, the inertia of the shaft has negligible impact on a supercharger.

Since a turbo is free spinning, inertia is extremely important for response time. With the high rotation speeds involved and the relatively small and light compressor and turbine wheels, the weight of the shaft is certainly not negligible here.

This is the reason we don't see that many (not to say none) "split" turbos on high performance applications out there. IMO, it is the avenue of the electric motor/generator on the turbo that allows this concept to work.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-15-2014 at 06:02 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 03:21 PM   #18
Imola3
Second Lieutenant
Imola3's Avatar
324
Rep
237
Posts

Drives: Mk.7 Golf R
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Very cool. Not so surprising that Mercedes is innovating since Gottlieb Daimler patented the technique of using a gear-driven pump to force air into an internal combustion engine in 1885. I was just at the Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart and saw some very cool stuff.
I visited over the last summer, great museum. Porsche and BMW were also impressive. Hopefully the next time I am in Germany its for a delivery
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 04:20 PM   #19
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1309
Rep
2,787
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gago1101 View Post
Hope this translates into MB building real sports cars for the road from the ground up rather than boats turned into high-horsepower cars.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 04:22 PM   #20
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1309
Rep
2,787
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
I'm pretty sure 90% of the ppl on here would take an ///M6 over this boat.
Wouldn't be surprised. The M6 is fat worthless pig.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 04:33 PM   #21
kyleb350
Brigadier General
kyleb350's Avatar
United_States
422
Rep
4,709
Posts

Drives: '21 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Milwaukee

iTrader: (6)

I know there's little chance of seeing details, but I'm curious how that shaft is fed through the engine to the front and what it's made of in order to keep it's mass down.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 04:48 PM   #22
The Automotive Enthusiast
Retired BMW Genius
The Automotive Enthusiast's Avatar
United_States
2888
Rep
3,404
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

MB has been innovating for years now. Stability Control? Traction Control, ABS. They were the first to implement the technologies. MB knows their stuff. They've been innovating with cars like the SLS line of cars, and their Black Series line. It's BMW who's fallen behind.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 AM.




7post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST