Tesla P85D Acceleration

[N55Nick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpaLgF1uLB8

[kingc0bra]

haha that's awesome, would love to get one!

[BMW269]

Tesla = Master of Illusion

[FC4]

Amazing cars in so many ways, but people really need to get a better sense of how they accelerate. They are only impressive at very low speeds...their 330' ETs (4.60-4.70s) are similar to that of most 10-second 1/4-mile cars. By the last 330' of a 1/4-mile, they are effectively accelerating at a pace of an average high-12 car (actually...slower than that).

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by FC4

Amazing cars in so many ways, but people really need to get a better sense of how they accelerate. They are only impressive at very low speeds...their 330' ETs (4.60-4.70s) are similar to that of most 10-second 1/4-mile cars. By the last 330' of a 1/4-mile, they are effectively accelerating at a pace of an average high-12 car (actually...slower than that).

Thats why 0-60 is for marketing

[tiltmode43]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Thats why 0-60 is for marketing

0-60 is also useful for every day driving, no?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by tiltmode43

0-60 is also useful for every day driving, no?

i guess. but its just little annoying to see people only looking at 0-60 runs for cars in general. these new electric cars are great to 60. but really fall off later on.

[NickyC]

That's pretty impressive. That car accelerates nearly as quickly as Tesla's cash burn.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by tiltmode43

0-60 is also useful for every day driving, no?

Can't tell if srs, but no...not even close to useful. People seem to think 0-60 indicates how fast a car is or how fast it will feel while driving. It's measured from the car at a stationary position launched as hard as possible. How often are people launching their cars on the street? If at any point while driving at any speed above 0 MPH, you decide to floor the accelerator, that 0-60 figure is moot as an indication of how fast that car is/feels.

[tiltmode43]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i guess. but its just little annoying to see people only looking at 0-60 runs for cars in general. these new electric cars are great to 60. but really fall off later on.

Yeah, pretty silly for people to look at ONLY a 0-60 figure. So many other factors to consider but people sure love to bench race!

P85D 1/4 mile is in the mid 11's so not too bad as a whole but up top, they definitely do fall off.

Originally Posted by FC4

Can't tell if srs, but no...not even close to useful. People seem to think 0-60 indicates how fast a car is or how fast it will feel while driving. It's measured from the car at a stationary position launched as hard as possible. How often are people launching their cars on the street? If at any point while driving at any speed above 0 MPH, you decide to floor the accelerator, that 0-60 figure is moot as an indication of how fast that car is/feels.

Yes, srs, but primarily responding to ezio's comment that 0-60 is for marketing purposes.

If a vehicle is capable of a 3.2 second 0-60 you better bet it will feel quick if driven properly! I do agree that cars with little torque and/or make torque up top will certainly drive differently than cars with torque down low due to power band, so 0-60 isn't a definite predictor of 'seat of the pants quick', but we're talking about a 691hp/687lb-ft electric car 0-60 of 3.2s. I think those figures are a pretty good indicator of how the car would feel on the daily.

[Vigilante375]

Stop light racing, happens everyday.

So it goes fast from a dead stop. Guess what else it does that NO other 100% electric car can do that is on the market right now.....go well over 200 miles on a single charge! And, get this, Tesla offers FREE charging stations for all their customers! Plus they are coming out with a program so you can swap your low battery for a fully charged one for $60 or so and it'll take about the same time to swap as it does for someone to fill up their gasoline powered vehicle! ZOMG!

Too bad everyone cannot see how great Tesla actually is with their giant leap in innovation for the all electric car.

[Red Bread]

People arguing about an electric sedan not being suitably fast over 100mph are funny.

[1chanc3]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

People arguing about an electric sedan not being suitably fast over 100mph are funny.

The problem isn't that they're fast- We all know the p85d is plenty quick.
It's that they can't hold that kind of speed for very long. The battery overheats pretty fast, thus putting the car in a reduce power state, limiting the car's output. I remember reading an article that the a p85d wasn't able to complete the nurburgring because it went into reduced power several times.

I'm sure the tech will improve over time, and I really hope it does. Besides me wishing the p85d had more aggressive looks (looks like a regular model s), I really like tesla and their cars.

[phantomF80]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Stop light racing, happens everyday.

So it goes fast from a dead stop. Guess what else it does that NO other 100% electric car can do that is on the market right now.....go well over 200 miles on a single charge! And, get this, Tesla offers FREE charging stations for all their customers! Plus they are coming out with a program so you can swap your low battery for a fully charged one for $60 or so and it'll take about the same time to swap as it does for someone to fill up their gasoline powered vehicle! ZOMG!

Too bad everyone cannot see how great Tesla actually is with their giant leap in innovation for the all electric car.

There is nothing magical about the 200+ mile range though. All they did is put a giant battery into a huge car. The car weights more than a Toyota Sienna, is wider than a Sienna, and is as long as a Panamera. When you compute the miles per kWh, its efficiency is actually quite a bit lower than i3, Leaf, and other electric cars. Also, the supercharger feature is actually a $2000 option on the 60kWh version of Model S, so it's not free for everyone.

I do like the battery swap technology, and is likely to solve the problem of long charge time, but there is a catch though. You have to return the "loaner" battery to Tesla and get your original battery back, otherwise they will charge you for the battery pack. So it's not as convenient as Elan made it sound to be, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

I am looking forward to the Model 3, but I think people are making Model S sound like some sort of magical technology when it really isn't.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by phantomF80

There is nothing magical about the 200+ mile range though. All they did is put a giant battery into a huge car. The car weights more than a Toyota Sienna, is wider than a Sienna, and is as long as a Panamera. When you compute the miles per kWh, its efficiency is actually quite a bit lower than i3, Leaf, and other electric cars. Also, the supercharger feature is actually a $2000 option on the 60kWh version of Model S, so it's not free for everyone.

I do like the battery swap technology, and is likely to solve the problem of long charge time, but there is a catch though. You have to return the "loaner" battery to Tesla and get your original battery back, otherwise they will charge you for the battery pack. So it's not as convenient as Elan made it sound to be, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

I am looking forward to the Model 3, but I think people are making Model S sound like some sort of magical technology when it really isn't.

So how else is a 100% electric car suppose to get over 200 miles on a single charge without a huge battery? Have you seen what kind of "battery" it is? Just a bunch of big positive and negative "AA" lookalike batteries that they put in a special order to achieve such efficiency. Plus everyone knows that an all electric car is going to weigh more than an SUV, especially one like the Tesla.

I was not talking about the super charger that is an option for the car, I was talking about the charging stations that Tesla made at certain gas stations across the country. That are free for Tesla owners to use to charge their cars.

They are taking a giant leap into this and who knows, 10 years down the road they might figure out how to charge the car better to extend its range while driving, make a 30% smaller battery with better a discharge rate or make the car a bit smaller too. They are the pioneers in this and are undertaking a lot.

Everyone is treating Tesla...well....like how the real Tesla was treated during his life. So sad.

[phantomF80]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

So how else is a 100% electric car suppose to get over 200 miles on a single charge without a huge battery? Have you seen what kind of "battery" it is? Just a bunch of big positive and negative "AA" lookalike batteries that they put in a special order to achieve such efficiency. Plus everyone knows that an all electric car is going to weigh more than an SUV, especially one like the Tesla.

I was not talking about the super charger that is an option for the car, I was talking about the charging stations that Tesla made at certain gas stations across the country. That are free for Tesla owners to use to charge their cars.

They are taking a giant leap into this and who knows, 10 years down the road they might figure out how to charge the car better to extend its range while driving, make a 30% smaller battery with better a discharge rate or make the car a bit smaller too. They are the pioneers in this and are undertaking a lot.

Everyone is treating Tesla...well....like how the real Tesla was treated during his life. So sad.

Don't get me wrong, I really applaud the effort that Musk is doing with Tesla. Heck, I am thinking of putting my name down for Model 3. My problem is that a lot of people think Model S is the best electric car, but what's making Tesla really stand out is its commitment to its eco system like you have pointed out, much like Apple is to iOS and its eco system. My concern is that people think it's cheap to operate a Model S, when in fact it may not be once you factored in the infrastructure that needed to be put into the house if you can't use supercharger or free station all the time.

And you are right, long range electric car is going to be heavy, but it doesn't have to be Model S heavy, especially when you consider the barebone interior of the car. Just like Bentley is able to make a 2.5 ton car go wicked fast by putting in a powerful engine, a big enough battery can make any car go far. Think of what Model S can do if it's 10% lighter? It can get much more range, or it can use smaller battery to achieve the same range, which would cost owners less to operate. And they can definitely achieve that if they want to. Heck, his other company builds rockets, which has no margin on weights. So he has people that knows weight optimization, whom I hope do transfer knowledge to Tesla for future models.

[ShocknAwe]

If you have to write a novella in order to defend an idea from simple attack, then the execution of the idea is substandard and personal feelings are involved.

Every iteration of their cars are better than the last, but it's still not as good as petrol or electric assisted petrol (hybrids of all kinds) and not worth considering until it is.

[phantomF80]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

If you have to write a novella in order to defend an idea from simple attack, then the execution of the idea is substandard and personal feelings are involved.

Every iteration of their cars are better than the last, but it's still not as good as petrol or electric assisted petrol (hybrids of all kinds) and not worth considering until it is.

I think it depends on the circumstance though. We just got an i3 for my wife, and have come to realize we can completely replace her X1 with it, since her commute is short enough that range and charging time would not bring any inconvenience.

On the other hand, I wouldn't get an electric car to replace my F80 as my primary car. I will have to charge too often (even with a P85D), and I don't have the time to wait for a 7 hours charge at home or drive out of the way to go to a supercharger.

But technology is maturing fast. I am really looking forward to next gen electric cars.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by FC4

Can't tell if srs, but no...not even close to useful. People seem to think 0-60 indicates how fast a car is or how fast it will feel while driving. It's measured from the car at a stationary position launched as hard as possible. How often are people launching their cars on the street? If at any point while driving at any speed above 0 MPH, you decide to floor the accelerator, that 0-60 figure is moot as an indication of how fast that car is/feels.

Typically if a car has a fast 0-60 time, it also means it can likely accelerate from say, 30-60 quickly too which is useful for everyday driving.

Is it the most useful metric? No as it dings high revving, low torque motors more than those with higher and flatter torque curves but it does give some indication. Usually you can find the metrics of rolling times to various speeds in instrumented tests by magazines.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Typically if a car has a fast 0-60 time, it also means it can likely accelerate from say, 30-60 quickly too which is useful for everyday driving.

Is it the most useful metric? No as it dings high revving, low torque motors more than those with higher and flatter torque curves but it does give some indication. Usually you can find the metrics of rolling times to various speeds in instrumented tests by magazines.

Not true. Many fast cars suffer from poor response/gearing/lag (lots of different reasons it can happen) when on a roll vs the launched start 0-60 with or without roll out. I'd say less so now with new automatic transmission coding/tech. AWD vs RWD impacts roll race vs dig race times as well, the GTR is probably the best example of that. All agree it's remarkably fast, and has one of the best (if not the best) launches of all cars, but from a roll can be easily beaten by a "slower" car.

Sort of out of the discussion of an electric car though.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by phantomF80

But technology is maturing fast. I am really looking forward to next gen electric cars.

I'm still waiting.....

[NickyC]

A little article on Tesla thanks to our friends at Zerohedge.

An excerpt:

"In fact, Tesla is not a Toyota in the making; it is a Wall Street scam in plain sight. It has been a public filer for seven years now, and here are the horrific figures from its financial statements.

Since 2007 it has booked cumulative sales of just $6.1 billion, and that ain’t much in autoland; it amounts to about one week of sales by Toyota and two weeks by Ford. Its cumulative bottom line has been a net loss of $1.4 billion, and the losses are not shrinking—-having totaled nearly $300 million for 2014 alone.

More significantly, during its entire seven years as a public filer, Tesla has failed to generate any net operating cash flow (OCF) at all, and has, in fact, posted red ink of $500 million on the OCF line. During the same 7-year span ending in Q4 of 2014, its CapEx amounted to a cumulative $ 1.8 billion.

So go figure. Combining OCF and CapEx you get a balance sheet hemorrhage of nearly $2.4 billion. The real question, therefore, is not why Tesla was worth $35 billion, but why it wasn’t bankrupt long ago?

The answer is that it was and should be now. Tesla would not have even made it to its Goldman-led IPO without a $500 million bailout by Uncle Sam. That the hard-pressed taxpayers of America were called upon to underwrite a vanity toy for the wealthy—–and one peddled by a serial milker of the public teat—is surely a measure of how deep crony capitalist corruption has penetrated into the business system of America.

But even these egregious windfalls do not begin to compare with the gifts showered on Elon Musk by the money printers in the Eccles building. Tesla has stayed alive only because it has been able to raise billions of convertible debt in the Wall Street casino at yields which are the next best thing to free money. In short, it has been burning massive dollops of cash for years and replenishing itself periodically in capital markets which are rife with momo speculators flying high on cheap carry trades and the Fed’s buy-the-dip safety net.

During the spring of 2014, for instance, it raised $2.3 billion of 5- and 7-year money at interest rates ranging between 25bps and 125bps. That’s right. This company is a red ink spewing rank speculation, but the money printers have enabled it to raise cash that costs virtually nothing on an after tax basis. Call it free money for the Telsa bonfire of the vanities.

True enough, these miniscule interest rates were attached to convertible bonds—-so supposedly the “upside” justified giving a proven red ink machine free money. Yes, and the strike price on those converts implied a market cap of about $50 billion!

In truth, Tesla’s true losses are even greater than its accounting statements suggests. For instance, it has booked upwards of $500 million of revenue and profits owing to ZEV (zero emissions vehicle) credits. The latter were invented by Al Gore after he finished inventing the internet, and amount to nothing more than bottled air—-clean or not.

Also, Tesla’s affluent customers pocket about $10,000 per vehicle of Federal and state tax credits, meaning that taxpayers have fronted another $500 million or so to stimulate Tesla sales."


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...nters-vanities