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      03-11-2018, 07:12 AM   #67
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Is it me or have they removed the hockey stick on the side of the car?
Hard to tell, the vent is still there as someone pointed out but it appears to be smaller/thinner than before so the stick may be gone or may not...no definitive answer to that yet unfortunately, I personally don't mind the hockey stick but do realise that many don't like it.
Yeah. It was quite controversial when the car came out. I think it looked pretty dope on the m sport package. But yeah. Would be interesting if they completely ditched the hockey stick
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      03-11-2018, 07:50 AM   #68
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It should be "Bayerische Motoren Werke".

BMW Blog reported on 10/21/2017 "One of the interesting moves BMW will be making is switching up the roundel and logo on its higher-end luxury products. So rather than the blue and white roundel that we've come to know, it will instead go old-school, with a black and white roundel and the brand's full name, "Bayerische Motoren Werke" spelled out around it. This design will be present on the cars themselves as well as all marketing for them."

http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/10/21/bm...age-marketing/
I don’t believe they will put the black and white logo with the full brand name on the cars themselves, until we get some sort of spyshot or a direct quote from a brand representative. So far it isn't clear if the journalists have been reporting an actual information or have just been interpreting and extrapolating.

Although not impossible, messing with the iconic white and blue logo would seem like an unnecessarily bold and risky move. Moreover, not on any model but on the very high-end new model range that is meant to spearhead and establish the brand's credibility in the luxury segments, and ultimately see its image trickle down the lineup. The blue and white roundel has cristallized such a strong identity in the public's eye that tempering with it might not at all give off a more upmarket feel but rather disorient the client more than anything. The link to all the glorious BMWs of the past would be severed. Also, technically speaking, I'm not sure how well the relatively long 'Bayerische Motoren Werke' phrase would fit around the roundel in lieu of the traditional B M W letters.

If the new luxury products have a quality build, a strong design language, and an upmarket feel over the other models while still maintaining a sense of immediate brand identity, then there is no need for a special logo that would behead the lineup of its top models, quite the opposite.

Last edited by advantage20; 03-11-2018 at 08:25 AM..
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      03-11-2018, 09:07 AM   #69
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Am I the only one who think the full digital instrument cluster doesn't really fit the luxurious style of the 7 series? IMO too sporty and too mclaren-ish. Would look nice in the upcoming 3 and 8 series though.
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      03-11-2018, 09:09 AM   #70
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Is it me or have they removed the hockey stick on the side of the car?
The hockey stick seems to be thinner and in this pic it looks like a brushed finish
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      03-11-2018, 10:53 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Pelo Cat View Post
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Originally Posted by itsmorich01 View Post
Is it me or have they removed the hockey stick on the side of the car?
Hard to tell, the vent is still there as someone pointed out but it appears to be smaller/thinner than before so the stick may be gone or may not...no definitive answer to that yet unfortunately, I personally don't mind the hockey stick but do realise that many don't like it.
Yeah. It was quite controversial when the car came out. I think it looked pretty dope on the m sport package. But yeah. Would be interesting if they completely ditched the hockey stick
In the review of the M6 GC Adrian van Hoodynk indicated that they would be cleaning up the lines on models in the future ..
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      03-11-2018, 04:18 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymac1 View Post
Am I the only one who think the full digital instrument cluster doesn't really fit the luxurious style of the 7 series? IMO too sporty and too mclaren-ish. Would look nice in the upcoming 3 and 8 series though.
No, I think a few of us are in that camp as well (traditional dials preference, digitally produced mind you)...the quandary they likely have is that usually the tech filters down from the top down for new innovations so unless they had introduced it with the M5 (maybe it wasn't ready yet) they would need to offer it with the 7 and then likely offer a 'traditional view' as well as 'future' (to be kind).

Always great to have choice but at some point the computers and light show has to stop and refocus on the interior/exterior as well as handling or propulsion innovations IMO.

Personally glad I don't have (just) that new display...but I do definitely hear the masses screaming for more gadgets and tech on board...will be interesting to see if they do filter it down or just introduce such things in the 'sportier, younger lifestyle models' in future.

Safe travels.
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      03-11-2018, 05:39 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by tonymac1 View Post
Am I the only one who think the full digital instrument cluster doesn't really fit the luxurious style of the 7 series? IMO too sporty and too mclaren-ish. Would look nice in the upcoming 3 and 8 series though.
No, I think a few of us are in that camp as well (traditional dials preference, digitally produced mind you)...the quandary they likely have is that usually the tech filters down from the top down for new innovations so unless they had introduced it with the M5 (maybe it wasn't ready yet) they would need to offer it with the 7 and then likely offer a 'traditional view' as well as 'future' (to be kind).

Always great to have choice but at some point the computers and light show has to stop and refocus on the interior/exterior as well as handling or propulsion innovations IMO.

Personally glad I don't have (just) that new display...but I do definitely hear the masses screaming for more gadgets and tech on board...will be interesting to see if they do filter it down or just introduce such things in the 'sportier, younger lifestyle models' in future.

Safe travels.
gadgets and tech are definitely a good thing but I just simply think this instrument cluster looks too sporty , maybe you get to switch around the interfaces? I guess we will wait till the final reveal to see how it is.
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      03-11-2018, 06:41 PM   #74
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"Full Digital Instrument Cluster!"

WOW! Just like a 2012 Model S!!!

What is the plan for the next generation? Let me guess: a big screen in the center console? No wonder Tesla is beating BMW in Europe as well...
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Last edited by sheepboy; 03-11-2018 at 06:54 PM..
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      03-11-2018, 08:16 PM   #75
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"Full Digital Instrument Cluster!"

WOW! Just like a 2012 Model S!!!

What is the plan for the next generation? Let me guess: a big screen in the center console? No wonder Tesla is beating BMW in Europe as well...
Hey lost sheepboy you might want to frequent the Tesla forums.

BMW isn't trying to really be Tesla so maybe dial it down a notch.
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      03-11-2018, 08:43 PM   #76
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Hey lost sheepboy you might want to frequent the Tesla forums.

BMW isn't trying to really be Tesla so maybe dial it down a notch.
I own a BMW and a Tesla and participate in forums related to both. After reading your comment, I have to say the Tesla crowd is a little more open minded about fair criticism...

Having said that...

To say BMW ins't trying to be Tesla on a post that highlights their move towards "Full digital instrument cluster", something Tesla did back in 2012 and has been followed by essentially all German brands, is just silly.

The fact that people like me, who love BMW and has bought their cars in the past, can't help but laugh at a topic like this should worry BMW.

Model S now outsells 7-series in both US and Europe. There must be a reason for it and I bet it is not because BMW is making awesome, highly-desirable cars that people see like The Ultimate Driving Machine.
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      03-11-2018, 09:37 PM   #77
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its an z7 sized GRILL

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I sure hope that's not an X7 sized grill....
It worked so well for Lexus (yuk) BMW thought they would try it. I think it is a bad direction.
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      03-11-2018, 10:40 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by sheepboy View Post
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Originally Posted by ORIGIN M. View Post
Hey lost sheepboy you might want to frequent the Tesla forums.

BMW isn't trying to really be Tesla so maybe dial it down a notch.
I own a BMW and a Tesla and participate in forums related to both. After reading your comment, I have to say the Tesla crowd is a little more open minded about fair criticism...

Having said that...

To say BMW ins't trying to be Tesla on a post that highlights their move towards "Full digital instrument cluster", something Tesla did back in 2012 and has been followed by essentially all German brands, is just silly.

The fact that people like me, who love BMW and has bought their cars in the past, can't help but laugh at a topic like this should worry BMW.

Model S now outsells 7-series in both US and Europe. There must be a reason for it and I bet it is not because BMW is making awesome, highly-desirable cars that people see like The Ultimate Driving Machine.
I am happy for the Success of the Model S.

That said..
BMWs New Clusters are super cool without being over-the-top like Audi RS.
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      03-11-2018, 11:20 PM   #79
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To see people compare vehicle brands due to instrument panel similarities is mind boggling to me, not to mention timelines, and who did it first...

Reason why you're seeing companies going over to digital (not a technical term for this subject because it's not about what its made of, but rather its purpose, which is to be MORE interactive) is to support new evolving tech (Level 4+ Autonomy). So just because BMW used some old technology to introduce new tech (6WB) doesn't mean anything except for the fact that no one knows why except for BMW themselves and their reason for it. Each company has its business strategy and they're planned for years ahead, so just because one brand stuck an obnoxious object in their car in 2012, won't make anyone e-brake their operation and change the game plan. Tesla did that shit because that was one of the only ways they'd get the publics (additional) attention.

Don't forget that these mega corporations have access to tech that we won't see for at least a decade, and the new tech that we're seeing is in fact old shit that's just due for release because the cow's are sucked dry, and aren't moooooin' shit.

/My opinion on comparing the use of tech in vehicles features and applications is dumb AF, especially when they have nothing to do with the actual driving dynamics.
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      03-12-2018, 12:27 AM   #80
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Cluster looks like a motorcycle cluster... i like it!
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      03-12-2018, 01:53 AM   #81
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won't make anyone e-brake their operation
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      03-12-2018, 02:04 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepboy View Post
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Originally Posted by ORIGIN M. View Post
Hey lost sheepboy you might want to frequent the Tesla forums.

BMW isn't trying to really be Tesla so maybe dial it down a notch.
I own a BMW and a Tesla and participate in forums related to both. After reading your comment, I have to say the Tesla crowd is a little more open minded about fair criticism...

Having said that...

To say BMW ins't trying to be Tesla on a post that highlights their move towards "Full digital instrument cluster", something Tesla did back in 2012 and has been followed by essentially all German brands, is just silly.

The fact that people like me, who love BMW and has bought their cars in the past, can't help but laugh at a topic like this should worry BMW.

Model S now outsells 7-series in both US and Europe. There must be a reason for it and I bet it is not because BMW is making awesome, highly-desirable cars that people see like The Ultimate Driving Machine.
In fairness the BMW cluster has been all digital for quite a good few years but just they force it into a traditional dial design.

I'm quite happy for Tesla, nice to have some new blood in the car game. I imagine the reason Tesla is doing so well however is down to government discounts and tax incentives buying an electric vehicle. That and some people want to do right by the environment.

Hopefully they'll keep doing well but the proof will be when there's some proper electric competition for them from the traditional car brands.

Other than the central screen, dash and drive train there's nothing cutting edge about a Tesla though. They've a long way to go in the basics still of a good expensive luxury car.
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      03-12-2018, 04:57 AM   #83
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It took BMW to be outsold in Europe and exactly 5 years to come up with a car that can go head2head with the Tesla Model S.

The instrument cluster looks it has copied straight from the Model S and the camera system too. Hopefully it drives as well too.
So I drove and considered a Telsa P100D before I ordered my M760Li. There's a lot of hype about the Tesla's but the reality in my opinion if you can look beyond that is they don't live up to it.

Yes it's fast, no doubt but it doesn't feel faster than the M760Li and judging from the CarWow test, the Tesla is only really quicker on the initial go because well it's electric.

Outside of that the car just doesn't feel all that expensive, it feels cheap. The ride is pretty firm despite it being on air suspension. The centre console looks cool but it's somewhat laggy. The dash is nice but there's no HUD, I never even really look at the dash when you've got a HUD. The navigation system is also really poor compared to BMW's.

Then look at all the stuff you get on the 7 series that the Telsa doesn't have available. Laser lights, adaptive headlights, massage seats, cooled seats, rear seat entertainment, 360 degree parking cameras, self parking inside the car, hell they didn't even have rain sensing wipers when I drove the car but I know that's fixed now.

So yes it's cool that they get software updates however to be honest they need them because there's so much missing on their cars currently. At the price range of a M760Li and more expensive because their offer isn't as strong, it just doesn't compete. You'd have to want to own an electric car to pick it.
I respect your opinion, but for us Americans it is still impressive what Tesla was able to do in Europe against the best Germany can offer. Last year, the Tesla Model S outsold the BMW 7 series, Mercedes S and Audi A8 in Europe. Yes I agree with you the Germans interior have more bells and whistles, but the Tesla is true to their intentions of having a minimalistic interior and sustainable alternative to transportation. I bought my wife a Model X and she is much happier with it than her former X5 with HUD and massage seats. The instant torque is addictive too.

Not here to talk negatives about a brand that I like, but also proud that the USA was able to show the Germans that we still have it.

Cheers!
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      03-12-2018, 07:22 AM   #84
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I respect your opinion, but for us Americans it is still impressive what Tesla was able to do in Europe against the best Germany can offer. Last year, the Tesla Model S outsold the BMW 7 series, Mercedes S and Audi A8 in Europe. Yes I agree with you the Germans interior have more bells and whistles, but the Tesla is true to their intentions of having a minimalistic interior and sustainable alternative to transportation. I bought my wife a Model X and she is much happier with it than her former X5 with HUD and massage seats. The instant torque is addictive too.

Not here to talk negatives about a brand that I like, but also proud that the USA was able to show the Germans that we still have it.

Cheers!
On the other hand, the S-Class/7-series segment is extremely small and unpopular with car buyers in Europe.
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      03-12-2018, 07:59 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by FastLaneJB View Post
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Originally Posted by E90M3JETS View Post
It took BMW to be outsold in Europe and exactly 5 years to come up with a car that can go head2head with the Tesla Model S.

The instrument cluster looks it has copied straight from the Model S and the camera system too. Hopefully it drives as well too.
So I drove and considered a Telsa P100D before I ordered my M760Li. There's a lot of hype about the Tesla's but the reality in my opinion if you can look beyond that is they don't live up to it.

Yes it's fast, no doubt but it doesn't feel faster than the M760Li and judging from the CarWow test, the Tesla is only really quicker on the initial go because well it's electric.

Outside of that the car just doesn't feel all that expensive, it feels cheap. The ride is pretty firm despite it being on air suspension. The centre console looks cool but it's somewhat laggy. The dash is nice but there's no HUD, I never even really look at the dash when you've got a HUD. The navigation system is also really poor compared to BMW's.

Then look at all the stuff you get on the 7 series that the Telsa doesn't have available. Laser lights, adaptive headlights, massage seats, cooled seats, rear seat entertainment, 360 degree parking cameras, self parking inside the car, hell they didn't even have rain sensing wipers when I drove the car but I know that's fixed now.

So yes it's cool that they get software updates however to be honest they need them because there's so much missing on their cars currently. At the price range of a M760Li and more expensive because their offer isn't as strong, it just doesn't compete. You'd have to want to own an electric car to pick it.
I respect your opinion, but for us Americans it is still impressive what Tesla was able to do in Europe against the best Germany can offer. Last year, the Tesla Model S outsold the BMW 7 series, Mercedes S and Audi A8 in Europe. Yes I agree with you the Germans interior have more bells and whistles, but the Tesla is true to their intentions of having a minimalistic interior and sustainable alternative to transportation. I bought my wife a Model X and she is much happier with it than her former X5 with HUD and massage seats. The instant torque is addictive too.

Not here to talk negatives about a brand that I like, but also proud that the USA was able to show the Germans that we still have it.

Cheers!
It's not an Apples to Apples comparison though is it. Governments here give you a big wad of cash if you buy an electric car along with low to no road tax.

Add in if it's a company car you'd literally get raped buying a V12 like I am but the tax man gets nothing off an electric car. I know a self employed guy that had a Tesla Model S and then an X. He likes the cars a lot but admits the main reason he brought it is because there's no tax on it at all buying it on his business.

There was a taxi firm in Netherlands I believe that brought all Tesla's. With free super charging they could run much cheaper than their rivals. Again it's a choice because of cost. Would they have picked Tesla's otherwise, I don't think they would have done to be honest.

Don't get me wrong, I do like Tesla's and they've beaten everyone else to the market in this segment by such a huge margin it isn't funny. All I'm saying is if you put a petrol engine in one I don't think they'd stand up that well against most other makes, especially the German ones.

What will be interesting is once others do have viable Electric vehicles and playing on the same field with discounts, tax breaks will Tesla still shift as many cars.

I read this morning that the Porsche Mission E is planned to charge to 80% in 15 minutes along with Level 4 self driving. The old guard is going to up their game hugely so Tesla needs to move quickly, quicker than I think they are currently.

As someone else said, the 7 series, S class and A8 aren't big sellers here. I'd actually put the Tesla more as a 5 series sized car competitor. It's simply not a 7 series rival for the reasons I've stated, it's not S luxury limo type car. It's a full sized exec car which is the 5 series.
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      03-12-2018, 10:43 AM   #86
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      03-12-2018, 03:11 PM   #87
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Model S now outsells 7-series in both US and Europe.

so does Ford Mondeo
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      03-12-2018, 08:27 PM   #88
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I heard that BMW was not interested in having more immersive digital clusters since they're more into HUD. So integrated nav like Audi/VW does is not what they want. I never understood why they just tried to reproduce the analog cluster, the thematic colors (sport/comfort) were also just mere cosmeticals without real added value.

Where are they going now then? Just another lay-out theme or also more immersive and context sensitive like VW/audi?
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