V12 Engine rumoured to end with face lift on 7

[Pelo Cat]

Rumours seem quite strong about the V12 being stopped with the mid life cycle face lift models...maybe not the end of a 760 model but likely the end of the V12 with the new engine regs in D:

https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-killing-off-last-v12-model

[Pelo Cat]

And now Germany has started a ban on older diesels as well, no issue if one has a EURO6 norm diesel but not sure about older ones (EURO6 was in all diesels from Oct. 2015 IIRC in the U.K. at least...interesting times! Link:Diesel ban approved for German cities to cut pollutionhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43211946

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by Pelo Cat

Rumours seem quite strong about the V12 being stopped with the mid life cycle face lift models...maybe not the end of a 760 model but likely the end of the V12 with the new engine regs in D:

https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-killing-off-last-v12-model

My car will be a collectors item. Maybe after I've had it for 4 years I can sell it for half a million?

[325_bucks]

Hmmm I wonder if there’ll be any good deals on outgoing 760s next year. Might have to swap my pcp early!

[Pelo Cat]

When asked officially about this rumour, BMW responded " I can deny the speculation. Our very successful 12-cylinder engine will also be offered in the future in the 7 series.”

So good news on that front it seems!

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by Pelo Cat

When asked officially about this rumour, BMW responded " I can deny the speculation. Our very successful 12-cylinder engine will also be offered in the future in the 7 series.”

So good news on that front it seems!

Very successful? This is no good, I wanted exclusive.

The deals are already pretty strong but only if you compare it to a very loaded smaller engines 7. If you tick all the options on say a 730d that the 760 has as standard they'll be not a million miles off the same payments per months. After you've haggled a bit extra at least.

[325_bucks]

Originally Posted by FastLaneJB

Very successful? This is no good, I wanted exclusive.

The deals are already pretty strong but only if you compare it to a very loaded smaller engines 7. If you tick all the options on say a 730d that the 760 has as standard they'll be not a million miles off the same payments per months. After you've haggled a bit extra at least.

Really? I did some quotes out of interest and I couldn't get them anywhere near!

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by 325_bucks

Really? I did some quotes out of interest and I couldn't get them anywhere near!

So ignoring the negative equity on my M5, I'm paying a bit more than this to cover that plus things like individual paint.

Anyway the deal I had arranged on a new M760Li with laser lights added, seat cooling front and back and so on so not a base M760Li was £10k up front, 10k miles a year over 4 years and monthly payments of £1,034 on a PCP.

Maybe you can haggle them down a bit on a 730d as well but if I pick a 730Ld, pick all the options the M760Li has the car comes to an on the road price of £110,625 which is £39,815 worth of options. So by that point your as close to like to like as you can get so just the engine is the main difference. It's not quite like to like as the M760Li comes with a different exhaust, more tweaked handling and so on but close to apples to apples as possible.

PCP on the BMW website for that at £10k in, 10k miles over 4 years is £1,203.55 a month. So even with some haggling there you'd probably not get close to the M760Li's monthly payments.

The reason is there's a bigger deposit contribution on the M760Li, also the car is worth around £23k more at the end of 4 years than the 730Ld will be. Hence on a pretty much fully loaded 7 series you can get the V12 engine for less than the 6 cylinder diesel.

[325_bucks]

perhaps I didn't spec up the 730 as much as the 760 when I was comparing. But I'm paying £524 for the 730 so it's a big jump up to even a well haggled 760. I will certainly consider it next time though, or when I fancy a change

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by 325_bucks

perhaps I didn't spec up the 730 as much as the 760 when I was comparing. But I'm paying £524 for the 730 so it's a big jump up to even a well haggled 760. I will certainly consider it next time though, or when I fancy a change

Yeah if your not ticking all the boxes then the story changes hugely.

About the only items the M760Li doesn't have as standard are:

• Laserlights (Has the Icon Adaptive LED as standard)
• Seat cooling - Front and back
• Night vision
• Executive Lounge (Not gone for that as don't want it)
• Rear telephone (Not gone for, pointless item in the age of mobile phones)
• Online Entertainment (Can order that off iDrive anyway)
• Universal remote control (Don't need, didn't order)
• Sun protection glass
• BMW Ind. leather steering wheel w/ wood inlay (Not old man enough to want this)
• Executive Lounge Seating (Removes the massage plus other features in the passenger seat, don't need or want)
• Leather steering wheel with wood inlay (Different version of the BMW Ind. steering wheel I guess, not interested)
• Through-loading system
• Ski bag (Not ordered it, don't need it)

So there's a few items there missing but most you wouldn't order. All stuff like sky lounge, rear seat entertainment, bw diamond speakers, 4 wheel steering, exec drive pro and such is standard.

You've got a lot of car for the money so it's a great deal which ever 7 you pick to be honest.

[Pelo Cat]

Agree that it seems BMW is making it attractive at both extremes but not the middle. A 730 SWB with a few options they want to shift to meet numbers and the same for 760 LWB but not the 740 or 750 models or fully loaded 730...Likely customer profiling tells them the middle group will pay for it regardless in this segment but to attract the extremes they incentivise.

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by Pelo Cat

Agree that it seems BMW is making it attractive at both extremes but not the middle. A 730 SWB with a few options they want to shift to meet numbers and the same for 760 LWB but not the 740 or 750 models or fully loaded 730...Likely customer profiling tells them the middle group will pay for it regardless in this segment but to attract the extremes they incentivise.

The problem is the options. They almost always add nothing to the final value of the car so each time you add one your paying for it fully. However moving up the chain to cars that come with those options as standard then isn't the jump vs taking a lower specified car then adding the options to it.

It's always been that way. For my first ever BMW I was looking at a standard 320d. I'd just come off a company car scheme and hadn't crossed my mind about more powerful models. I added some features to it that I wanted and bumped the payments of course. The dealer pointed out that most of the options I'd added to the car came standard on the 330d so moving to that didn't really cost hardly anything of all.

We went out for a test drive, blew my mind with the performance vs the 320d and I was sold. Moral of the story is once you start ticking a lot of option boxes, look at the next model up if there is one because you might get more for almost the same money there.

Generally though a 760 isn't going to be great if you do a lot of business miles. Even if you get 45p a mile if you go over 10k to then get 25p that's going to be a push.

Diesel is fine now but suspect in 2 - 4 years you might not want to be picking it. You can see how all the talk of bans in cities are coming, doesn't have to be the places you go to but just having limits in a few places will make diesels hard to move on. The sensible option would probably be the hybrid models in the future with a smaller petrol engine, electric to bump up the bhp to levels your used to.

[325_bucks]

The logic is solid but with the 7, you don’t really get many, if any other options on the bigger engine cars, especially as it’s a fairly well specced car to begin with, compared to a 320 for example, so you really have to make the jump to a much higher level, ie the 760, to realise your logic. The middle ground cars like the 740d and i are pretty similar in spec to the 30. I would have liked to go for a 40 to match my current performance but that extra cost wasn’t justified for what I would be getting overall in the package. Jumping to a 760 WOULD have been worth it but then it’s just a case of overall cost being too high. With the baby on the way, I need to keep my costs down for a year or 2 and then we can see

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by 325_bucks

The logic is solid but with the 7, you don’t really get many, if any other options on the bigger engine cars, especially as it’s a fairly well specced car to begin with, compared to a 320 for example, so you really have to make the jump to a much higher level, ie the 760, to realise your logic. The middle ground cars like the 740d and i are pretty similar in spec to the 30. I would have liked to go for a 40 to match my current performance but that extra cost wasn’t justified for what I would be getting overall in the package. Jumping to a 760 WOULD have been worth it but then it’s just a case of overall cost being too high. With the baby on the way, I need to keep my costs down for a year or 2 and then we can see

Yeah I agree. They could I imagine make it easier to shift the mid engine models by giving them some more options in the base package. As they are standard the final value of the car jumps so the options become cheaper.

To be honest they also feels like there's too many options on the 7 series. I suspect adding some of the options in as standard wouldn't really cost BMW much. The difference from a base car and a fully loaded one is ridiculously huge.

Fully get on you being sensible. This is probably my mid life crisis but by the time I change again could have Uni costs for the kids coming around so might do the sensible thing, scale back hugely to cover that plus maybe put some of the car payments towards the mortgage. Maybe just one 4 year type period with a regular cheap car then go back to the bigger stuff.

We shall see. It'll be hard to go from a 7 series to something lesser I imagine.

[325_bucks]

yeah that's a good point, where do you go from a 7?! You can't really go bigger in length in this country so you need to go bigger in height like a 4x4 but none of them that I tried had the comfort of the 7 series/S Class. So then you either forget a big car and go full on sports car, but that's a different beast altogether. Or you step up to a Rolls but then you really need to be driven, and it's basically a 7 series underneath anyway. It's a tough one

[Pelo Cat]

That was my logic 5 years ago (mid-life crisis) then downsize to something more day to day practical...that’s worked out well for me as you know! Once I was used to the 7, it was impossible to go back down to a 5 or 3, etc...granted we’ve no kids so no issue with staying with the 7 but I know already that it’ll be 7 ‘s until I can’t or won’t drive any longer...the 760 is looking mighty fine as the next one...

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by 325_bucks

yeah that's a good point, where do you go from a 7?! You can't really go bigger in length in this country so you need to go bigger in height like a 4x4 but none of them that I tried had the comfort of the 7 series/S Class. So then you either forget a big car and go full on sports car, but that's a different beast altogether. Or you step up to a Rolls but then you really need to be driven, and it's basically a 7 series underneath anyway. It's a tough one

I was thinking more a Ford Fiesta

But seriously don't want bigger, longer or such. This will be more than big enough. I could go back to a 5 series in terms of size but it's more the overall tech on the car you'd lose. No air springs and maybe other things you cannot get on lesser cars. However something the size of the 5 with all the tech of the 7 would probably be the most ideal type of car for the UK. Just they don't offer that as an option, you want the best tech / comfort then you need the biggest car as well.

In fairness I could have a base spec 7, still be really comfortable and half the monthly payments so could save quite a bit of money without really having to suffer.

Originally Posted by Pelo Cat

That was my logic 5 years ago (mid-life crisis) then downsize to something more day to day practical...that’s worked out well for me as you know! Once I was used to the 7, it was impossible to go back down to a 5 or 3, etc...granted we’ve no kids so no issue with staying with the 7 but I know already that it’ll be 7 ‘s until I can’t or won’t drive any longer...the 760 is looking mighty fine as the next one...

Yeah I secretly probably know I'll struggle to do what I say. Still I can kid myself about it for 4 years until the next time to change comes around.

Think you really do need to get your 760 test drive in

[325_bucks]

Originally Posted by FastLaneJB

I was thinking more a Ford Fiesta

But seriously don't want bigger, longer or such. This will be more than big enough. I could go back to a 5 series in terms of size but it's more the overall tech on the car you'd lose. No air springs and maybe other things you cannot get on lesser cars. However something the size of the 5 with all the tech of the 7 would probably be the most ideal type of car for the UK. Just they don't offer that as an option, you want the best tech then you need the biggest car as well.

In fairness I could have a base spec 7, still be really comfortable and half the monthly payments so could save quite a bit of money without really having to suffer.

Yeah that's the problem, I could have gone for a 5 if it offered all the tech and luxury. They need to do a 5 series luxury edition with all the suspensions and tech and everything from the 7. Or an x5 with the same. I would consider a big 4x4 next time. Maybe the new x7?

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by 325_bucks

Yeah that's the problem, I could have gone for a 5 if it offered all the tech and luxury. They need to do a 5 series luxury edition with all the suspensions and tech and everything from the 7. Or an x5 with the same. I would consider a big 4x4 next time. Maybe the new x7?

I keep playing in my head about trying an SUV type car. My dad just recently got an X3 and it's pretty comfortable really considering it's not high up the BMW range.

However I won't go off road, don't really go anywhere a saloon has problems with. xDrive more useful say for parking in a place with a muddy field car park or snow but then that's also a really rare situation in this country. This current weather excluded of course

You also lose quite a bit of fuel economy going for an SUV. Not that obviously I can say I'm that worried about it having a 760 but I get extra performance for the extra fuel burnt. An SUV burns more fuel without giving you anything much back if your only going on roads.

Still I have to be honest I'd like to own one at some point, might change my opinion. Indeed the X7 is likely the one we'd be looking at as 7 series owners.

Drove a Macan once. That handled pretty well and felt somewhat saloon like but obviously not in the league of a 7 series type car.

Pelo cat

Bit off topic but read that some weather people think as the artic warms up affecting the vortex it might push cold weather over Europe more often. So might be as we heat the planet up, Europe might actually get somewhat colder more often. And to think you moved from Canada to avoid the cold

Just wondered as a bit of a pro in that field what your opinion might be?

[325_bucks]

More importantly though when is this going to end and will we get the freezing rain?! I really hope not!

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by 325_bucks

More importantly though when is this going to end and will we get the freezing rain?! I really hope not!

Seems like the problems with the weather are accelerating faster than people predicted. Good job I work from home a lot.

[325_bucks]

Yep, me too, 99.9% at home. But I like to leave after being home all day so it would be nice for it to go away now, had enough!