[Jason]

A certain exciting model will be teased/announced tomorrow AM. Stay tuned!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Also, isn't the G 5er chassis now based on the 7er?

I believe it is most accurate to simply say that the G30/G31 5 Series and G11/G12 7 Series are both built on versions of the modular CLAR architecture.

So by deductive reasoning, if the G 7 can hold a V12, shouldn't the G 5 and therefore the 8er? And a V12 should fit in the same spot as an I6, especially if a V8 also fits (proving the width of a 90° V is there.

I'm not sure that packaging is quite that simple. A more thorough study of the engine bay dimensions and firewall details would be prudent if one wished to fit an N74 V12 into a 5 Series for example. And I should add that that V12 has a 98mm bore center (like the N63 V8) while the B58 six cylinder, as a member of the modular inline engine family, has a 91mm bore center. And by the way, one more note on engines. We've been told previously that this vehicle will come with a new 4.0L V8:

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1295847

which, if true, may very well mean a move to a smaller block (perhaps sharing some dimensions with the inline engine family, perhaps not).

IMHO, I don't think there is much to be gained here by nitpicking over what other BMW the 8 Series is based on and what that should tell us about the appropriateness of its name or the potential for it to share features with one existing BMW product vs. another. And I don't mean to pick on you specifically, Red Bread, as I notice a number of people in a quandry about such things. This is a large, flagship coupe (and later convertible, and quite probably Gran Coupe), and it will come with a price and feature set becoming of such a vehicle.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by advantage20

As expected it's actually based on the 5 Series... So basically a new 6 according to the technical base, the dimensions, and logically the engine options, meaning probably no V12... A 6 rebadged into 8 due to the striking exterior design and exclusive interior, but not a true successor to the original flagship V12 8 Series...

Spot on! I think it makes no sense to bring back the namesake of the 8-Series if there is no V12. Otherwise we just have another 6-Series with a different badge and more luxury. What are the people at BMW thinking these days?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

...

Nice response. I don't disagree. I also don't see this being light, or particularly needing to be. No one buying an S Coupe, Continental or Maserati gives one proverbial poop about what they weigh. These aren't sports cars or even particularly sporty.

They exist in a different realm than the i8, AMG GT or Ferraris of the world and shouldn't really be compared to them. Heavy is fine for these cars. And BMW doesn't build light cars even when they try to.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Jason

A certain exciting model will be teased/announced tomorrow AM. Stay tuned!

Uh Oh! I hope it's good!

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Nice response. I don't disagree. I also don't see this being light, or particularly needing to be. No one buying an S Coupe, Continental or Maserati gives one proverbial poop about what they weigh. These aren't sports cars or even particularly sporty.

They exist in a different realm than the i8, AMG GT or Ferraris of the world and shouldn't really be compared to them. Heavy is fine for these cars. And BMW doesn't build light cars even when they try to.

Another spot on post. Weight shouldn't matter for these mega GT cruisers. Even the Aston Martin Vanquish is quite heavy yet I still think it's one of the sexiest cars ever and would love to own one just for the joy of driving it on the street. Why does everyone feel need to have a car be just as good on the track as it is on the street?

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Taking a look at the prototypes over the concept, it seems like we wont be getting that exotic front grill, in favor of a more conventional one. Also, i dont think they'll bring this 3D-ish rear lights to the production model aswell. So the actual car wont be as dramatic as this concept, unfortunately (imo).

[fbsm]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

Taking a look at the prototypes over the concept, it seems like we wont be getting that exotic front grill, in favor of a more conventional one. Also, i dont think they'll bring this 3D-ish rear lights to the production model aswell. So the actual car wont be as dramatic as this concept, unfortunately (imo).

The external/body design is attractive.......the interior is not so much.....especially the steering wheel/column and some other internal details

Hoping that many of the interior concept bits are abandoned for more conventional sensible options

[wanesso]

A bit like the Maserati Alfieri-- but fatter. I would not refuse it though.....

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Spot on! I think it makes no sense to bring back the namesake of the 8-Series if there is no V12. Otherwise we just have another 6-Series with a different badge and more luxury. What are the people at BMW thinking these days?

Well an S550 Coupe, which as you know has a V8, has a $122k MSRP. So you are effectively saying that the only reason we should give Mercedes a pass on that price is because they have an even more expensive V12 model (over $160k) above it?

If BMW does not choose to offer a V12, it could simply be that not enough people are demanding one. After all, when we look at the V12 engines used by BMW, Bentley, and Mercedes*, we see nothing more than about ~650hp. Today's turbocharged V8 engines - which incidentally all of these same manufacturers also offer in this class of vehicle - can make just as much power and offer equivalent or better performance while weighing noticeably less. Sure, the V12 is seen as a status symbol in this class. But maybe BMW has already determined that the customer they are targeting with the 8 Series will prefer a V8 powered M8 over a V12 powered "M860i". I think this is quite plausible.

* I would have included Audi too but they appear to have killed the A8 V12, at least in the US. And no wonder - it was not turbocharged and woefully underpowered compared to the competition.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by Jason

A certain exciting model will be teased/announced tomorrow AM. Stay tuned!

Probably the official release of the M4 GT4 with US prices. Too early for the M2 CS or M2 GTS.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Probably the official release of the M4 GT4 with US prices. Too early for the M2 CS or M2 GTS.

I believe he chose to post that information in this thread with good reason, so I strongly doubt it is any of those.

[advantage20]

With the reveal of this concept, BMW has again explicitly reasserted its ambition to become the #1 manufacturer in the luxury segments. Right now it is pretty obvious that Mercedes-Benz is #1 in terms of sales, high-end model variety, and luxury perception in the eyes of the public, with offers that BMW simply hasn't countered, even if we include Rolls-Royce.

The confirmed X7 and the potential 9 Series sedan would be an important step ahead, but it would be a real shame not to endow this reborn 8 Series with a V12 version, even if it will make a minority of all sales. The 8 will be BMW's top of the line model (at least until the potential 9 Series and the iNEXT...), it will carry the E31's heritage, and if executed properly it will be a vehicle that can proudly stand alongside an S65 or a DB11. I'm sure that the development cost would be worth it anyway in terms of image building.

Now of course it all depends on the technical compatibility of the V12, and on the question whether a V12 M860i wouldn't overlap too closely with a V8 M8 and mutually cancel each other's credibility, with the twist that while the V12 S65 has higher power figures than the V8 S63, it would be the other way round on the 8 Series. Let's hope BMW releases info about the engine range anytime soon. The guy in the AutoBild video does say there will be an M860i but it's pretty unclear whether he takes that from official info or just personal speculation.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Uh Oh! I hope it's good!

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1388449

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Rendering

[BMWRL]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

Rendering

Gorgeous, too bad it sounds like it won't look anything like the concept.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Well an S550 Coupe, which as you know has a V8, has a $122k MSRP. So you are effectively saying that the only reason we should give Mercedes a pass on that price is because they have an even more expensive V12 model (over $160k) above it?

If BMW does not choose to offer a V12, it could simply be that not enough people are demanding one. After all, when we look at the V12 engines used by BMW, Bentley, and Mercedes*, we see nothing more than about ~650hp. Today's turbocharged V8 engines - which incidentally all of these same manufacturers also offer in this class of vehicle - can make just as much power and offer equivalent or better performance while weighing noticeably less. Sure, the V12 is seen as a status symbol in this class. But maybe BMW has already determined that the customer they are targeting with the 8 Series will prefer a V8 powered M8 over a V12 powered "M860i". I think this is quite plausible.

* I would have included Audi too but they appear to have killed the A8 V12, at least in the US. And no wonder - it was not turbocharged and woefully underpowered compared to the competition.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. It wouldn't make much sense from a performance standpoint and a cost/weight standpoint to put a heavier engine when a lighter engine will do. But what about the perspective of a buyer wanting a more special experience that only a V12 exhaust note can provide. I realize that BMW is not Aston Martin, never has and never will be, but would people buy a DB9 or a Vanquish with no V12? Maybe. Is the only reason BMW put a V12 in the original 8-Series because that was simply the best technology at the time? I realize that BMW is company that is constantly changing, just like many automotive companies are, but when BMW has built their reputation by doing things that have set them apart from the competition, why does it now make sense to forget the past and sell a car that market analysts feel will sell more or is more cost efficient, than building something truly special that may not sell as much. I think it's a great thing to have so much homogeneity in product offerings, all BMW's today are now turbocharged and they sell a heck of a lot of 3,4,5, and X-Series cars, and they are all great cars, but why can't they just have one outlier, just one car in their line up that is so vastly different and special that it separates and elevates the entire brand, and shows the world what BMW can really do? They sort of tried this with the i8 and I believe they failed, but Audi has the R8 and I would say that car has been a huge success for their brand.

The original BMW 8-Series was BMW's best failed experiment, but at least they took a chance back then, and many enthusiasts agree that the old 8-Series is one of BMW's most special cars. I don't feel like BMW is taking a chance with this new 8-Series, perhaps they are in exterior and interior design, but certainly not in the powerplant department. I want BMW to give me a reason to buy this car other than it just being their next newest thing. But I am just one person, many will buy it because it is exactly that, their next newest thing, they wouldn't care if it had a B46 engine in it. So for that I blame everyone else who doesn't love the sound of a BMW V12 engine, you don't know what you are missing.

[Edinburra]

Wow, when can I collect mine?

[emulajavi]

Originally Posted by emulajavi

About the grille. I think it'd look much better with conventional grilles design, instead of the upside-down approach like the BMW X2.

Quick proposal. Left one is better drawn. I hope someone with good photoshop skills can make a render.

It seems like the M8 grilles will look similar to what I've

[BMWRL]

Come to think of it, none of the concept cars that BMW has shown at Concorso d’Eleganza Villa d’Este, have ever really previewed a production model.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you.

...

So for that I blame everyone else who doesn't love the sound of a BMW V12 engine, you don't know what you are missing.

But all that said (and you do make some fair points), BMW is probably betting (based on what is surely very thorough market analysis, I might add) that given the choice between an M8 and an M860i, were you in the position to buy one and just one (perhaps this is indeed the case), you would choose the M8.

Are they correct? I'll bet they are. And I'll bet the same applies to most everyone else like you too.

[ron_jeremy]

Adrian is just moving his hand across the door, and it's opening, no door handle, no keys in his hands, no nothing?