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      06-15-2015, 10:21 PM   #1
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How much should I pay? New 2014 on the lot

I am looking to pick up a new daily driver. I've had a mix of cars over the last few years including a 2011 750Li. I am usually an M5 type of buyer... but there is no point for an M5 in Houston (I am from California and the roads SUCK here in Houston).

A local dealer has several 2014 750's on the lot still. I have seen other local dealers discounting 2015 750's $13k on a $93k sticker.... and thats the advertised discount.

What do you think a 2014 750i should be discounted? If the sticker is around $95k, maybe $75k?
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      06-16-2015, 12:39 AM   #2
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about right..keep in mind if you need/want it do it quick as supply will end soon, at least here in cali
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      06-16-2015, 12:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avi8tir
I am looking to pick up a new daily driver. I've had a mix of cars over the last few years including a 2011 750Li. I am usually an M5 type of buyer... but there is no point for an M5 in Houston (I am from California and the roads SUCK here in Houston).

A local dealer has several 2014 750's on the lot still. I have seen other local dealers discounting 2015 750's $13k on a $93k sticker.... and thats the advertised discount.

What do you think a 2014 750i should be discounted? If the sticker is around $95k, maybe $75k?
Absolutely Not!

No. You are looking at a car that was probably built in 2013.

First, this is very suspicious. What's wrong with the dealer that they cannot unload some good 7 cars for over 2 years.

Two weeks ago, I would have agreed with you. But, now that the g11 has been fully disclosed, the value of a new 2014 just fell off a cliff.

If the trunk had gold bricks in it, then I would consider your offer.

Now, the dealer has been holding on to these cars so they don't have to lock in its losses.

This dealer might rather not sell these cars and get them to auction (as a mulligan) than actually sell them at a loss.

What to do:

1. You need to convey to the dealer that these 2014 7 series are junk. Tell them the high tech of the new 7 is incomparable and $20 off isn't anywhere near enough.

2. Nevertheless, you will consider taking $20k off under the following terms and conditions:

A. The dealer warrants the car is in new condition and never damaged or in a flood.
B. The dealer takes $20k off the top.
C. The dealer will give you the 6 year 100,000 mile warranty at no cost.
D. The dealer will add wheel and tire insurance at no cost.

I think this would be a decent and fair deal.
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      06-16-2015, 12:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Absolutely Not!

No. You are looking at a car that was probably built in 2013.

First, this is very suspicious. What's wrong with the dealer that they cannot unload some good 7 cars for over 2 years.

Two weeks ago, I would have agreed with you. But, now that the g11 has been fully disclosed, the value of a new 2014 just fell off a cliff.

If the trunk had gold bricks in it, then I would consider your offer.

Now, the dealer has been holding on to these cars so they don't have to lock in its losses.

This dealer might rather not sell these cars and get them to auction (as a mulligan) than actually sell them at a loss.

What to do:

1. You need to convey to the dealer that these 2014 7 series are junk. Tell them the high tech of the new 7 is incomparable and $20 off isn't anywhere near enough.

2. Nevertheless, you will consider taking $20k off under the following terms and conditions:

A. The dealer warrants the car is in new condition and never damaged or in a flood.
B. The dealer takes $20k off the top.
C. The dealer will give you the 6 year 100,000 mile warranty at no cost.
D. The dealer will add wheel and tire insurance at no cost.

I think this would be a decent and fair deal.
its not suspicious, this is the 4th largest city in the US and with 5/6+ BMW dealers in the Metro area, I bet there are 20+ 2014s out there and even more 2015s that dealers are willing to drop $20k+ off MSRP to get em off the inventory.

If you can get wheel/tire for free (doubt it) would be a bonus, but get the best deal you can, with buying the wheel/tire and get it refunded after the sale. I did that on all 3 I bought this year.
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      06-16-2015, 01:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonRider
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Absolutely Not!

No. You are looking at a car that was probably built in 2013.

First, this is very suspicious. What's wrong with the dealer that they cannot unload some good 7 cars for over 2 years.

Two weeks ago, I would have agreed with you. But, now that the g11 has been fully disclosed, the value of a new 2014 just fell off a cliff.

If the trunk had gold bricks in it, then I would consider your offer.

Now, the dealer has been holding on to these cars so they don't have to lock in its losses.

This dealer might rather not sell these cars and get them to auction (as a mulligan) than actually sell them at a loss.

What to do:

1. You need to convey to the dealer that these 2014 7 series are junk. Tell them the high tech of the new 7 is incomparable and $20 off isn't anywhere near enough.

2. Nevertheless, you will consider taking $20k off under the following terms and conditions:

A. The dealer warrants the car is in new condition and never damaged or in a flood.
B. The dealer takes $20k off the top.
C. The dealer will give you the 6 year 100,000 mile warranty at no cost.
D. The dealer will add wheel and tire insurance at no cost.

I think this would be a decent and fair deal.
its not suspicious, this is the 4th largest city in the US and with 5/6+ BMW dealers in the Metro area, I bet there are 20+ 2014s out there and even more 2015s that dealers are willing to drop $20k+ off MSRP to get em off the inventory.

If you can get wheel/tire for free (doubt it) would be a bonus, but get the best deal you can, with buying the wheel/tire and get it refunded after the sale. I did that on all 3 I bought this year.
Lol, the fact that it's a big city makes even more suspicious.

I stand by my offer, or I'd walk.
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      06-17-2015, 02:06 PM   #6
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I think walking into a dealer and telling them their cars are junk is not likely going to get you far lol

If you take the BMWrules7 approach and bring up the 2016s as your leverage, the dealer will likely say in the most polite to loosen up your purse strings and get a 2016!! i.e. shut the f up and pony up real money
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      06-18-2015, 01:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VWtoBMW
I think walking into a dealer and telling them their cars are junk is not likely going to get you far lol

If you take the BMWrules7 approach and bring up the 2016s as your leverage, the dealer will likely say in the most polite to loosen up your purse strings and get a 2016!! i.e. shut the f up and pony up real money
Exactly my point. If you're going to pony up then you should get a 2016. Otherwise, if you're going to sell me a car built in 2013 then you had better be prepared to lower your price.

Now, had you read my post you would have seen that I was willing to accept the OP's offer. But, they had better sweeten the deal by throwing in a 6 year/100,000 mile warranty and wheel and tire.

Yes, I would throw them back off their heels and tell them the car is "junk."

Because, in retail terms it is.

What are you going to do walk in there with lollipops on your cheeks?

Oh, take my money...please.

I really believe this car made in 2013 is worth the same as a 2016----not!
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      06-18-2015, 08:02 AM   #8
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I will calculate in this way.
First ask for the price for a 2016 7 series in lease and financing and then
ask for price for 2014 7 series in lease and financing with 20K discount.
You will have residual value for the 2 cars and then you can work the way
out backwardly. Keep the car monthly payment the same and minus the
extra loss per month; multiply as a X years extra loss and add extra loss in residual value.

Last edited by Fanta; 06-18-2015 at 08:09 AM..
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      06-18-2015, 12:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Lol, the fact that it's a big city makes even more suspicious.

I stand by my offer, or I'd walk.
when looking at new rides in SEPT and again in DEC both times, there wasnt a dealer we spoke with that even asked us to look at a 7, they all told us "the 7 sales are dead because the new S550 is on the ground and the new facelift 2016 7 series wont be on the ground for a while."

I know most of the high dollar leftover big ticket BMWs $100k+ are being discounted, but they aren't tossing out 20% off that Ive seen, but I know when we bought this 6 and 4, we found 4 dealers willing to take a $20k drop on any still new $100k MSRP car, and that was in Dec.

They can only drop so much and sooner or later (hence the big city comment) that someone will come in with marginal resources and the opportunity will present itself to stick em in a left over 2014 (they have more denied loans than sales and they said that happens daily, the Finance Manager lives in my neighborhood)

I know the 2016s are nice, but for the hit on a new ride, I would take a $20-25k off left over 2014 or 15 any day of the week. Those who lease may feel differently cause your just renting anyway.
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      06-19-2015, 06:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonRider
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Lol, the fact that it's a big city makes even more suspicious.

I stand by my offer, or I'd walk.
when looking at new rides in SEPT and again in DEC both times, there wasnt a dealer we spoke with that even asked us to look at a 7, they all told us "the 7 sales are dead because the new S550 is on the ground and the new facelift 2016 7 series wont be on the ground for a while."

I know most of the high dollar leftover big ticket BMWs $100k+ are being discounted, but they aren't tossing out 20% off that Ive seen, but I know when we bought this 6 and 4, we found 4 dealers willing to take a $20k drop on any still new $100k MSRP car, and that was in Dec.

They can only drop so much and sooner or later (hence the big city comment) that someone will come in with marginal resources and the opportunity will present itself to stick em in a left over 2014 (they have more denied loans than sales and they said that happens daily, the Finance Manager lives in my neighborhood)

I know the 2016s are nice, but for the hit on a new ride, I would take a $20-25k off left over 2014 or 15 any day of the week. Those who lease may feel differently cause your just renting anyway.
Yes, that makes sense. P.T. Barnum said it best----suckers and 60 seconds, right?

Leasing vs financing should not have too much of an effect. You should always negotiate the purchase price first and then decide to lease/finance second.

But, the real devil here is depreciation.

New cars can't avoid depreciation forever. At some point, a new 2014 is not going to have the same value.

(Of course, if you took a new 2014 and never drove it then it might appreciate as a collector car.)

But, that's not what we have here. There are differences between the 2014 and 2015. And, even bigger differences between the 2015 and 2016.

The $20k reduction I am asking for has nothing to do with good will or some other incentive.

Rather, these cars dive in value quickly. I am saying that this 2014 lost $20k on its sticker as a line item due to the depreciation.

Now, something is only worth what others are willing to pay. So, if the BMW wants to hide the loss from a customer that can't afford a 2016 then that's different than this 2014 being sold for what it's really worth.
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      06-19-2015, 01:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Lol, the fact that it's a big city makes even more suspicious.

I stand by my offer, or I'd walk.
Lol @ suspicious. Just out of curiousity, what would make it suspicious? What do you think would have happened to the car other than sitting on the lot for about 500 days?
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      06-19-2015, 05:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBL84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Lol, the fact that it's a big city makes even more suspicious.

I stand by my offer, or I'd walk.
Lol @ suspicious. Just out of curiousity, what would make it suspicious? What do you think would have happened to the car other than sitting on the lot for about 500 days?
Let's say the 2014 7 has 14 miles on the clock. It just arrived from the vpc.

Dealer goes to move the car into the showroom and it refuses to start.

Now, service gets involved. They get it started and drive it 1 mile.

The dealer, now told the car is fine, goes to move the car into the showroom.

It fails to start.

Now, the damn thing has 15 miles on the clock.

Service tows the car and gets a myriad of faults.

The tech opens a puma case. Germany remotely diagnosis a failed injector.

The tech gets the injector and as he is changing it, he over torques a bolt and it strips.

Then, as he is trying to drill the bolt out, his phone vibrates. As the tech answers his phone, he spills his coffee all over the left engine management control board that was opened up due to previous trouble shooting.

Anyway, the tech wipes the board down quickly, but in his haste he yanked out all of the control cables to get the coffee soaked board out so he can dry it.

Well, the engine was still powered on, so his diagnostic equipment is lit up like a Christmas tree.

Now, he shuts everything down, dries off the board, re-seats it, fixes the stripped bolt, and completed the injector repair and turns the car over to sales.

30 days later, the car is out on a 1 mile short test drive with a prospective buyer. Suddenly, half way into the test drive, the car sputters and issues a drive train malfunction.

Back to service. By now the car has 17 miles on the odometer.

Service resets and can't find any fault.

This time, a different tech is working on the car. He is unaware that coffee was spilled on one of the engine management controllers.

His fault guide tells him to reseat all the connectors. All is well.

During the next test drive, the car won't start. Now this vehicle is getting a reputation from the sales team as the devil car.

No sales guys want to demo the car since customers end up walking away from the dealership.

A year goes by. The car has less than 20 miles on the clock.

This time a new hire is interested in buying the car. The car starts, but suddenly the cooling hose pops off the same engine management controller due to an loose clamp.

This scares the prospective new hire buyer away.

The car sits....

Until, finally, the OP arrives to see this same beautiful NEW 2014 7! It starts!!' Woo hoo!

All that's left is to negotiate the deal (now June of 2016) on this sweet new 2014!

That's what makes it suspicious.
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      06-19-2015, 11:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Let's say the 2014 7 has 14 miles on the clock. It just arrived from the vpc.

Dealer goes to move the car into the showroom and it refuses to start.

Now, service gets involved. They get it started and drive it 1 mile.

The dealer, now told the car is fine, goes to move the car into the showroom.

It fails to start.

Now, the damn thing has 15 miles on the clock.

Service tows the car and gets a myriad of faults.

The tech opens a puma case. Germany remotely diagnosis a failed injector.

The tech gets the injector and as he is changing it, he over torques a bolt and it strips.

Then, as he is trying to drill the bolt out, his phone vibrates. As the tech answers his phone, he spills his coffee all over the left engine management control board that was opened up due to previous trouble shooting.

Anyway, the tech wipes the board down quickly, but in his haste he yanked out all of the control cables to get the coffee soaked board out so he can dry it.

Well, the engine was still powered on, so his diagnostic equipment is lit up like a Christmas tree.

Now, he shuts everything down, dries off the board, re-seats it, fixes the stripped bolt, and completed the injector repair and turns the car over to sales.

30 days later, the car is out on a 1 mile short test drive with a prospective buyer. Suddenly, half way into the test drive, the car sputters and issues a drive train malfunction.

Back to service. By now the car has 17 miles on the odometer.

Service resets and can't find any fault.

This time, a different tech is working on the car. He is unaware that coffee was spilled on one of the engine management controllers.

His fault guide tells him to reseat all the connectors. All is well.

During the next test drive, the car won't start. Now this vehicle is getting a reputation from the sales team as the devil car.

No sales guys want to demo the car since customers end up walking away from the dealership.

A year goes by. The car has less than 20 miles on the clock.

This time a new hire is interested in buying the car. The car starts, but suddenly the cooling hose pops off the same engine management controller due to an loose clamp.

This scares the prospective new hire buyer away.

The car sits....

Until, finally, the OP arrives to see this same beautiful NEW 2014 7! It starts!!' Woo hoo!

All that's left is to negotiate the deal (now June of 2016) on this sweet new 2014!

That's what makes it suspicious.
That's a pretty deep conspiracy theory!

No but really it's probably more of an option thing or a color combo. Or it's possible it could have sat under a tree and just looks terrible and potential buyers don't like to see a 100k car with dust, sap, leaves, and just overall lot rot. I don't disagree it's worth in between 70-75k but the likely hood of all that stuff listed above is a bit much. Most people don't really want to "settle" when it comes to color or options on this level of a vehicle so most 7er's are ordered. Or at least that has been my experience.
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      06-20-2015, 06:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBL84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Let's say the 2014 7 has 14 miles on the clock. It just arrived from the vpc.

Dealer goes to move the car into the showroom and it refuses to start.

Now, service gets involved. They get it started and drive it 1 mile.

The dealer, now told the car is fine, goes to move the car into the showroom.

It fails to start.

Now, the damn thing has 15 miles on the clock.

Service tows the car and gets a myriad of faults.

The tech opens a puma case. Germany remotely diagnosis a failed injector.

The tech gets the injector and as he is changing it, he over torques a bolt and it strips.

Then, as he is trying to drill the bolt out, his phone vibrates. As the tech answers his phone, he spills his coffee all over the left engine management control board that was opened up due to previous trouble shooting.

Anyway, the tech wipes the board down quickly, but in his haste he yanked out all of the control cables to get the coffee soaked board out so he can dry it.

Well, the engine was still powered on, so his diagnostic equipment is lit up like a Christmas tree.

Now, he shuts everything down, dries off the board, re-seats it, fixes the stripped bolt, and completed the injector repair and turns the car over to sales.

30 days later, the car is out on a 1 mile short test drive with a prospective buyer. Suddenly, half way into the test drive, the car sputters and issues a drive train malfunction.

Back to service. By now the car has 17 miles on the odometer.

Service resets and can't find any fault.

This time, a different tech is working on the car. He is unaware that coffee was spilled on one of the engine management controllers.

His fault guide tells him to reseat all the connectors. All is well.

During the next test drive, the car won't start. Now this vehicle is getting a reputation from the sales team as the devil car.

No sales guys want to demo the car since customers end up walking away from the dealership.

A year goes by. The car has less than 20 miles on the clock.

This time a new hire is interested in buying the car. The car starts, but suddenly the cooling hose pops off the same engine management controller due to an loose clamp.

This scares the prospective new hire buyer away.

The car sits....

Until, finally, the OP arrives to see this same beautiful NEW 2014 7! It starts!!' Woo hoo!

All that's left is to negotiate the deal (now June of 2016) on this sweet new 2014!

That's what makes it suspicious.
That's a pretty deep conspiracy theory!

No but really it's probably more of an option thing or a color combo. Or it's possible it could have sat under a tree and just looks terrible and potential buyers don't like to see a 100k car with dust, sap, leaves, and just overall lot rot. I don't disagree it's worth in between 70-75k but the likely hood of all that stuff listed above is a bit much. Most people don't really want to "settle" when it comes to color or options on this level of a vehicle so most 7er's are ordered. Or at least that has been my experience.
Of course, you are totally right. I remember a puke green 5 GT they couldn't sell.

After nearly a year seeing it still on the lot, I told my sales guy: You won't be able to give that thing away.

He said: I will sell that car, you'll see.

It turns out, he did sell it at damn near full price.

So, I think I just killed my own argument. D^oh!
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      06-20-2015, 07:47 PM   #15
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Wow. I think I will cover all of the windows in my house with tin foil to make sure the government isn't listening to my thoughts.

Living a life full of suspicion and pessimism must be sad.
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      06-20-2015, 11:23 PM   #16
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People were getting 22-25k off back in December. Don't forget about an addition $1,500 rebate check back if you're a CCA member.
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      06-22-2015, 08:37 AM   #17
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Good grief. Lol.

Color/options are factors sometimes, lots of white interior 7 series on lots around here, but quite a few black/black, silver/black, white/beige, white/black, black/beige, blue/black. 740i, 740iL, 750i, 750iL.

I doubt all these had coffee spilled into the ECUs by inept technicians, I think dealers just got stuck with them when the new Mercedes and talk of the 2016 changes came about.

I think $20k+ off would be a good jumping off point. I'm not sure about the depreciation after a year with the new style, but if you look a years past, it hasn't fallen off a cliff

Momentum North has 10 2015
Momentum West has 14 2015 and 1 2014
Momentum SugarLand has 18 2015
Advantage Midtown has 37 2015 and 10 2014
Advantage ClearLake has 7 2015 and 1 2014
Woodlands BMW has 7 2015
BMW Beaumont has 7 2015 and 1 2014

Last edited by HoustonRider; 06-22-2015 at 08:51 AM..
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      06-22-2015, 10:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VWtoBMW
Wow. I think I will cover all of the windows in my house with tin foil to make sure the government isn't listening to my thoughts.

Living a life full of suspicion and pessimism must be sad.
Hey, I was just using my imagination to provide a hypothetical.


I can give you 10 hypotheticals that end on a positive note.


I was simply responding to the challenge to explain a scenario where one "should" be suspicious.

I am 99% sure nothing like my hypothetical happened.
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