i7 Charging Experience

[NewQ]

I find myself considering the i7 over the internal combustion 7 series. Has anyone had robust experience with the charging situation outside the home?

I fear the charging experience is garbage. Downloading random apps, signing up, confirmation emails, entering credit card info, 10 different apps for 10 different companies, chargers not working, screens broken on machines, charging station software crashed, half of plugs being out of order, having to call someone to reset it when it’s freezing cold outside, chargers only outputting at half of advertised speed, so you can’t even trust the route planning.

Is any of that rooted in reality, or is it overblown?

[DroMike]

Perhaps you'd like to view this 10-minute or so video somebody posted a month or two ago called, "Charging Test With The 2023 BMW i7! NO Issues!" Otherwise, MY personal experience with charging my i7 won't occur until around December when I receive my own car.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by NewQ

...I fear the charging experience is garbage....

Troll much?

[NewQ]

Not at all. I’ve openly said I’m considering the i7.

These are real issues people have discussed and documented, it’s not like I’m making them up. And for the type of experience I’m buying this car to have, these problems, if real, would significantly downgrade that experience.

[DroMike]

Originally Posted by NewQ

Not at all. I’ve openly said I’m considering the i7.

These are real issues people have discussed and documented, it’s not like I’m making them up. And for the type of experience I’m buying this car to have, these problems, if real, would significantly downgrade that experience.

Well, then I hope you found the video I posted to be of some small use.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by NewQ

I find myself considering the i7 over the internal combustion 7 series. Has anyone had robust experience with the charging situation outside the home?

I fear the charging experience is garbage. Downloading random apps, signing up, confirmation emails, entering credit card info, 10 different apps for 10 different companies, chargers not working, screens broken on machines, charging station software crashed, half of plugs being out of order, having to call someone to reset it when it’s freezing cold outside, chargers only outputting at half of advertised speed, so you can’t even trust the route planning.

Is any of that rooted in reality, or is it overblown?

I too am considering this and I have done a TON of research and talked to a lot of people, and this CAN be true.

You don't need to just talk to people who have an i7, talk to people who have EVs that are not Teslas. If they have an EV that doesn't comply with the NACS standad and doesn't have access to Tesla chargers, their experience is the same. There are HUGE reliability issues with the charger network around me. For daily use I would never have to charge outside my home, but I travel a few times a year in my car (most times we drive the family car which is a plug in hybrid) and when I do, typically I travel to rural places. I am limited to 2 or 3 high speed options on the main trip, two of which are a few chargers in Walmart parking lots and one off the net charger at a truck stop. I have spoken with numerous people and read reviews on all of these charging locations and there is absolutely an issue with downtime, broken chargers, lines for charging because of the limited nature of what is available etc.

The question is, how much will you be traveling and needing a recharge out of your home? Look up the charging stations you will use and read the reviews. Take the trip and stop where those chargers are and scope them out and talk to people. I did all of that and the results are not encouraging. As an example, the stops I can make there are maybe 4 plugs at each stop, which means there are 12 physical plugs where I can charge along the entire route, so thats a big gamble...and one of those stops is so early in the trip I may have issues making it to my destination charged from there, so really there are 8 plugs the entire way, and once I get off I-81 and onto I-64 I am optionless for 200 miles...

Now, that doesn't mean I won't get the car...I love the car and like I said 90% of the time I will charge at home and there will be no issues, but I may not plan on traveling with the car...I may travel even by myself in our new 2023 Pacifica Hybrid...which is a shame because I love those solo trips in my awesome car...

Skepticism on this topic is absolutely reasonable IMO...huge reason to get a Tesla, Teslas just don't appeal to me.

[Minbari]

I couldn't find my old account login, but wanted to chime in with some advice on the EV side of things for you. Your profile is from the USA, but your experience owning an i7 will change A LOT depending where in the continent you live, and where you often drive.

By and large, the CCS charging experience in North America is extraordinarily poor right now, but it's because of a lot of factors and things are rarely that simple. I’ll do my best to explain from my perspective of a 2 EV household, and with 30,000 miles of EV roadtripping across North America (CCS and NACS in the last 12 months alone).

Right now there is an influx of EV sales, and EV drivers taking vehicles on roadtrips - which leaves peak travel weekends in EV friendly states (Colorado, Nevada, California, others) very challenging infrastructure wise. Lineups at key charging stations aren’t uncommon on holiday long weekends for example. On the other hand though, in some entire regions a lineup at an EV charger will almost never occur due to extremely low traffic. Picture I-15 between LA and SLC driving through Las Vegas compared to I-94 from Billings to Minneapolis - these two road trip experiences could not be further apart from a driver/owner experience.

Across Canada & the US right now, EV charging point operators (CPOs) fall into two main categories - regional/local charging networks, and corridor/highway full service networks. A company like Electrify America operates like the latter, building stations at regular intervals along most interstates and major routes between cities. However in most states and cities you'll find smaller regionalized charging networks that you absolutely can use as well.

The ultimate problem stems from a lack of consistency- these various networks don't use the same apps and payment methods, the same charging hardware, and they certainly aren't maintained to the same standard. Many different vendors (ABB, SK Signet, BTC Power, Delta, and others) build both the “chargers” (the large white cabinets at charging stations) and the “dispensers” (the pretty unit with the cables that takes payments and has a screen). Reliability, maximum voltage/current output, cold weather performance, payment methods/apps accepted and more are all differentiating features between these brands, and CPOs don’t often advertise what hardware is installed on each site. Some digging into last winter for example (on a YT channel like Out of Spec Reviews) illustrates the absolute disaster in cold weather performance of the new EA stations that got installed in a lot of states in 2022. This isn’t something that should make or break a vehicle purchase, but going in with the full picture is absolutely crucial.

From the i7's perspective - it's a fantastic vehicle, can accept high amperage DCFC rates (up to ~200kW ish on 380V is a full 500A charging). On the other hand, finding chargers that are functional and capable of outputting that rate is a tossup based on region. If you lived in most places in the midwest, wanted to travel cross country frequently, end up on rural/state highways a lot and away from the main charging corridors - you shouldn't buy an i7. However if you are driving a lot around your home city where you can charge at home overnight, and roadtrip between major centers or using charging corridor interstates, you shouldn’t ever be stranded in the i7.

Another point worth considering is the location of the EV chargers themselves - you’ll find in lots of areas only Electrify America EV chargers just off interstates, and primarily in Sam's Club and Walmart parking lots. Whether that bothers you or not is a personal choice of course, but don’t expect a lot of walking amenities while you’re charging besides those big box stores. That said, many areas do have alternative CPOs like EVgo or regional power companies among many others - but finding them and trusting them requires preplanning. Additionally, expect that on average your charging stops will run 30-40 minutes plugged in each time (roughly 10-75 or 20-80, etc). This will be longer if the chargers you intend to use are limited to 350A, or are throttled for any other reason.

Tools like “A Better Route Planner” (ABRP) and Plugshare are tools you will non-negotiably need to use every single time you roadtrip an i7 or rely on a charger that isn’t at your house. The unfortunate reality of CCS EV ownership is that leaving your house on a day-long road trip is not a guarantee without preplanning, and actually understanding the limitations of both the vehicle and charging networks. Checking the working status of chargers before departure and planning maximum distances between chargers is mandatory in most states, since there won’t always be a bailout option, especially in remote areas and even moreso in winter or inclement weather. This won’t be a concern in California for example though, only the overall crowdedness of the chargers there.

One thing you mention is chargers not outputting full speed and being unable to trust the routeplanning and this is accurate - in car route planning is a guideline at best, and in the real world the range you achieve and charging speeds/times will often be slightly worse than any prediction your car might make at the beginning of a journey. Tools like ABRP fill in those gaps to give you a far more realistic picture of how a roadtrip might look, taking into account weather/wind/driving conditions/etc.

Don’t let what seems like an overwhelming negative reply take away from the upsides though, EV ownership isn’t impossible, and with a home charger installed can be significantly cheaper and less headache inducing than a gasoline powered vehicle. By and large, EV charging even on a roadtrip using DCFC stations will end up costing less than the national average for gasoline - but only if you’re willing to accept some of the caveats and put in the time and effort to make ownership possible for you.

Hope some of this helps put context around the issues for you and maybe helps you understand the decision a bit better? Happy to explain more about my experiences on all the major charging networks also if that would help!

[SW17LS]

Super helpful, and mirrors all of the research I have done as well

[Caveno]

My opinion is if you can’t charge at home or make frequent long trips an electric car isn’t for you.

[Gemini7866]

Originally Posted by Caveno

My opinion is if you can’t charge at home or make frequent long trips an electric car isn’t for you.

I haven’t installed my home charger as yet and I have no issues charging ..I charge once a week 80% unless im taking a road trip ..I live in south Florida I take trips to Orlando /Palm Bay/ ocala not super far but 2-5hr trips..I mostly use electrify America I have the complimentary 3yrs with them..But also where I live there is one literally 3-4min away.

[SW17LS]

So just to show you though how quickly this is improving, I haven't looked at it in a month or so, and in that time an all new DCFC has opened up along the route that I take on that trip, creating another excellent fast charging option. So, it is improving for sure.

[DroMike]

LOL! -- My car won't arrive until December, but the FIRST thing I did was install a Level 2 charger in my garage two months ago! I just wanted that physical and psychological reminder that my first EV was coming.

Otherwise, yes, the EV infrastructure is continually improving and being upgraded. Of course I live in California where you can't throw a stick without hitting an EV station, but a week or so ago there were ceremonies celebrating achieving the goal of installing 10,000 fast chargers for EVs in the state, more than a year ahead of schedule! In fact, a month ago and just three blocks away there was only a single orphan charger at an Electrify America station. Magically, now, they've grown in size to a virtual happy charging "family" of FOUR! And so will go the rest of the country day-by-day, week-by-week.

The bottom line is, I have absolutely NO worries about charging on a rare long trip with a reasonable amount of planning and common sense. GOODBYE $6.00+/gallon California gas prices or even VISITING a gas station (since 98% of my charging will be done at home while I'm blissfully sleeping). because from now on I'll be part of the solution and not the problem.

[GOLFFRR]

the charging network at this time in some areas is still not there but is slowly getting better. Some areas the charging isn't an issues since the network is more dense in those locations.

if you can't charge at home though and travel a lot it could be a little dicey at this current time IMO. however if you pre plan your trip I don't see it being too tough

[NewQ]

All of these comments are what are giving me pause. Clearly the video doesn't show real world experiences, or shows a very rosy version of it.

The fact that I can't rely on in-car planning (due to unreliable chargers or charging speeds) is a huge drawback for me. It would be one thing if I could have my expensive new luxury machine do all of that worrying for me, but I can't.

If I have to be constantly worrying or babysitting my car, it no longer becomes an avenue of freedom, and instead becomes a liability. Cost of gasoline isn't really a factor (these are very expensive cars after all).

The reason I buy a car like this is to be comfortable and worry-free and enjoy myself, and it seems like having to double check secondary apps all the time for fear of being stranded is not the way to do that. I know myself, and once I have to go from wafting in my baby Rolls Royce to downloading a new app and entering credit card information and then calling some number to be on hold to get a charger rebooted, I'm going to absolutely lose it.

What are the advantages in your experience to the i7? Cost of gas doesn't matter to me. Feeling good about myself for driving an electric vehicle is nice, but not top of my list either. The quietness and smoothness is a draw, but is it that much of an advantage over the V8? It's also slower.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by NewQ

What are the advantages in your experience to the i7? Cost of gas doesn't matter to me. Feeling good about myself for driving an electric vehicle is nice, but not top of my list either. The quietness and smoothness is a draw, but is it that much of an advantage over the V8? It's also slower.

Have you driven both? The i7 drives considerably nicer IMO, it feels incredible. The way the EV powertrain feels when accelerating is amazing. It also rides better because of the weight. I would not at all say its a draw.

The driving experience alone is what motivates me to want an i7 over a 760.

[NewQ]

Well I meant draw as in an appeal, an attractive quality. But no I haven’t driven it yet. I might this weekend. It’s a question of whether it’s vastly superior to the V8, which is already tuned for refinement.

[DroMike]

Of course it doesn't really matter which type of fuel -- gas or electricity -- one needs to put into their vehicle, once down to about 20% of either you have to be responsible enough to at least THINK about topping off again. And while gas stations currently outpace EV stations 10-1 (just guessing), in 2023 America there are still thousands of the latter which aren't difficult whatsoever to find and are increasing every day. In the absolute and most unlikely worse case scenario even the staunchest of pessimists may contrive, should one find themselves in the middle of nowhere, AAA has and can show up with, both gas OR electricity to get you on your way -- not that one is likely to be commuting 200-300 miles daily anyway.

So really, if one is so unorganized, un-resourceful, or faint-hearted not to be mindful of any of this, perhaps driving any vehicle is not for that person or should be attempted. Otherwise, most people with an electric vehicle in one "hand," and a modicum of competence in the other, can figure out how to get along. If one isn't able to embrace a little Lewis & Clark spirit in EV form, then sitting in the back of that safe covered V8 wagon is still fully acceptable, at least for the time being.

[AlteBMW]

Originally Posted by DroMike

Of course it doesn't really matter which type of fuel -- gas or electricity -- one needs to put into their vehicle, once down to about 20% of either you have to be responsible enough to at least THINK about topping off again. And while gas stations currently outpace EV stations 10-1 (just guessing), in 2023 America there are still thousands of the latter which aren't difficult whatsoever to find and are increasing every day. In the absolute and most unlikely worse case scenario even the staunchest of pessimists may contrive, should one find themselves in the middle of nowhere, AAA has and can show up with, both gas OR electricity to get you on your way -- not that one is likely to be commuting 200-300 miles daily anyway.

So really, if one is so unorganized, un-resourceful, or faint-hearted not to be mindful of any of this, perhaps driving any vehicle is not for that person or should be attempted. Otherwise, most people with an electric vehicle in one "hand," and a modicum of competence in the other, can figure out how to get along. If one isn't able to embrace a little Lewis & Clark spirit in EV form, then sitting in the back of that safe covered V8 wagon is still fully acceptable, at least for the time being.

California seems to be ahead of most other areas. Chargers here (Long Island) are mostly Tesla and far from ubiquitous. From what I have seen, this is true up and down the East coast. Surely that will change over time, but not quite yet. So I am in my covered wagon for a few years.

BTW just curious how AAA shows up with electricity. I suppose BMW roadside should do that too. But how? With a huge battery pack or a gas or propane driven generator? In any event, my experiences with roadside service have been mixed so I personally wouldn't bank on that to bail me out (just as I don't rely on them for a gallon of gas either).

[CaboM4]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

BTW just curious how AAA shows up with electricity. I suppose BMW roadside should do that too. But how? With a huge battery pack or a gas or propane driven generator?

You could get charged by an F150 Lightning or other similar vehicle that actually has Vehicle to Vehicle charging capabilities. I'm fairly certain that BMW Roadside, AAA or any other car club will leave you SOL for a roadside charge and will gladly tow your EV with no juice to the nearest charging station

[NewQ]

If I'm buying a comfortable high-end luxury cruiser limousine, the idea of a dangerous trek into the wilderness is not what I'm going for; I personally find the Lewis and Clark comparison incongruous. I don't think characterizing the very real shortcomings of the charging network as faults on the part of the driver as being unorganized, un-resourceful, or cowardly is appropriate.

The charging network wouldn't bother me so much if it were reliable. The fact that more and more are being installed is great, but if lots of them are broken, that doesn't help. If I can't rely on the solution BMW has given to mitigate charging availability, what's the point?

Do adapters for Tesla chargers exist, or is that more of a software issue?

[DroMike]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

BTW just curious how AAA shows up with electricity. I suppose BMW roadside should do that too. But how? With a huge battery pack or a gas or propane driven generator? In any event, my experiences with roadside service have been mixed so I personally wouldn't bank on that to bail me out (just as I don't rely on them for a gallon of gas either).

Fair question; I don't know, technically. All I've read is that since December of last year, AAA has "[launched] a pilot program, offering roadside charging for EVs in 16 metro areas," and that "[they are] using mobile EV charging vehicles equipped with DC fast chargers and Level 2 AC quick chargers. The DC fast chargers can provide a significant amount of charge in a short period of time." The entity "Blink is now also offering these EV roadside assistance units and linking them to auto insurance policies. I have personally seen a handful of these larger separate and autonomous consumer units (from at least the State of Charge YouTube channel) for around $1,000 which you can charge at home, then use them there or take them on the road (not that I'd myself want to bother w/their physical size or 90+ lb weight). Obviously more mobile units are coming and service will be expanding nationwide commensurate with demand due to the growth and popularity of EVs. It's all rather unstoppable at this point.

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by NewQ

If I'm buying a comfortable high-end luxury cruiser limousine, the idea of a dangerous trek into the wilderness is not what I'm going for; I personally find the Lewis and Clark comparison incongruous. I don't think characterizing the very real shortcomings of the charging network as faults on the part of the driver as being unorganized, un-resourceful, or cowardly is appropriate.

The charging network wouldn't bother me so much if it were reliable. The fact that more and more are being installed is great, but if lots of them are broken, that doesn't help. If I can't rely on the solution BMW has given to mitigate charging availability, what's the point?

Do adapters for Tesla chargers exist, or is that more of a software issue?

Agreed, drawing a comparison to a gas vehicle needing to be refueled at 20% of a tank left makes no sense, I can stop anywhere and refuel it in 5 minutes. I have to plan way ahead where I can charge and hope those chargers are working which is no small thing.

There are adapters but you can’t just use a Tesla charger.

I love the car but I also want to be able to use my $135,000 car the way I want to. It’s not just a “daily”

On the trip I want to take the car on there are 3 opportunities to DC fast charge it. One of them has terrible reliability, so there are two. That’s not ideal. There are at least 200 gas stations, maybe more. In fact, I don’t even need to stop for gas because of the highway range of my S Class (600 miles)