My Big Fat Geek Wording - More ICE vs. EV debate

[jmg]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Why put up with this when I can refuel a 5 Series in 5 min and achieve 400 miles of range? :

Come on, really? The point is that filling up doesn't have to take hours. Of course filling up with petrol is faster, that's not the point.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

$4-5k less a year in gas. Not to mention it has zero emissions. Those are just reasons, may not be your reasons (nothing wrong with your logic/reasoning) but those are reasons.

I spent $2110 in fuel over the past year driving my FBO 335i 35,000 miles. Not sure how you calculate double that savings. :

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

I spent $2110 in fuel over the past year driving my FBO 335i 35,000 miles. Not sure how you calculate double that savings. :

BMW has a program with EVgo for free charing for 2 years and I have a charger at work. I used to spend $450 a month on gas on my long commute. Granted, I still take my ICE for fun a few days of the week, so I'm saving at least $350 a month. $350*12=$4200. If it weren't for insurance, the car almost pays for itself in this case. Of course, that's just my situation.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I spent $2110 in fuel over the past year driving my FBO 335i 35,000 miles. Not sure how you calculate double that savings. :

Try driving 15-20k miles a year in LA traffic at 9-12 mpg with LA gas prices at $3.45.

Just because you get good gas mileage does not mean others do. All I am saying is there are reasons, and $2k is still more than $0-400 in electricity.

And with your alleged numbers you are telling me that over 35k Miles you got 35 mpg (assuming gas prices are as low as $2.00) which is what you need to only have spent $2110? Seems far fetched on a FBO 335i. But then again, I do not know your life, just like you do not know other peoples lives. People can differ in their reasons and savings. All I was saying in my initial post when you asked - why

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Why put up with this when I can refuel a 5 Series in 5 min and achieve 400 miles of range? :

There is more to a car than fuel.
I put my i3 in my socket during night, in complete control and in my home. I can also charge it free at any mall, or paying for it during longer drives, it cost 1/10 of petrol. Then you have about zero maintenance and cheaper insurance, no fuel pump issues, no turbo that's wrecked, no nothing.
When you have driven a EV, then return to your complex ICE, with 5000 parts in your engine, with a trannie that makes you wait for your next gear, it's just so obsolete and 1900 century imo.
And the future is right around the corner.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by nozydog

Seems quite a realistic timescale to me. Tesla only make electric cars and how many people do you know who own one? I know just one!! BMW don't need to suddenly go all electric because people won't buy them yet due to cost! Seven years is the approximate manufacturing lifespan of most cars! By then many more people will be interested in EVs and the cost will have come down! Who actually cares where Tesla are in 7 years.... by the time their cars exist in a marketplace full of competition, they'll probably switch to making solar powered washing machines or something!!

Not true as much as you might think. Besides Tesla, Mercedes is who BMW is worried about, and for good reason, because MB will eat BMW alive if they do not adapt quickly and they know it.

[Nahlem]

So many people in the forums still believes in the lies that the big OPEC have promoted, The grid won't be able to hold if everyone switches to electric cars, Lithium is mined bla bla bla, Stop spreading false lies this is the reason why trump won in the USA people believing other peoples opinions to be facts without fact checking them self.

https://www.mediamatters.org/researc...ic-cars/185798

https://www.forbes.com/2010/04/24/th...ctric-car.html

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green

Here is a couple of sites to read about myths regarding EV cars, SO please stop spreading your own opinion as a fact on bimmerpost, if you don't like EV cars that is fine but don't be spreading half truths and none fact based opinions regarding them.

Unless you have driven or owned a EV car for a longer extended period of time, the opinion you have on them is rather irrelevant. And if you have and still feel they don't meet your requirements it is still your own opinion on owning one and not the the truth regarding EV cars. And probably as with any car out there you experience of your EV car may be different from someone else who owned the same EV car just as with petrol/diesel cars. Two people both buying their M3s can have a very different experience regarding their cars.

My father has owned his i3 for 4 years now, and i have driven it a lot and this is one of the first i3s that came.

Maintenance? No there is no maintenance he hasn't been billed for any mechanical maintenance so far during his 4 year ownership why? because there is nothing to maintain. Except software upgrades.

Range? A bit on the low side for me so his I3 doesn't suit my needs but his needs are suited perfectly, any anxiety cause of it? No not even a little bit just plan your trip and you will be fine. I have never found my self stranded anywhere with that car sens you can charge the damn thing pretty much everywhere you go there is 230V power outlet. But this is the first generation with "only" 120 km on the range. Perfect for city driving.

Performance? Pretty damn good for not being a sports car and loads of fun at red lights or crossings when you step on it and those behind you reacts so slowly while you blast off really fast.

Winter time? The range doesn't take any beating that i have noticed and i live in Sweden where our winters have an average temp of -5 to -10c and during nights drops bellow -15c.

Battery holding? Yes 4 years in and a software optimization later the car went from 111 km to 120 km on one charge. I don't know what they did but they did something. Any diminishing on the range as a said he gets further now then when he got the car so that is a no on that point.

Expensive? Yeah it is a an expensive car that i agree on, but then again BMW is a "premium" brand and so is Tesla, so pricing no surprises there they are expensive, but there is shitloads of other car that have EV that isn't premium brand and can get you as far as 280-350 km on one charge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ntly_available

And whats the point of EV cars? To get people who uses the car as a A to B transporter to switch to EV and not to hunt the people who uses M cars as their driving cars or some form of performance car they are a minority in emission release it is the big crowd the 95% of the people on the planet that uses the car for what it is a way to get around and do all the daily stuff not the enthusiast people whom's emission doesn't leave a big footprint sens most people wont buy an performance car as their daily driving car, if anything the people here should encourage people to switch to EVs. So the environmentalist out there stops hunting people driving performance cars.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Not true as much as you might think. Besides Tesla, Mercedes is who BMW is worried about, and for good reason, because MB will eat BMW alive if they do not adapt quickly and they know it.

Correct you are sir.
In fact, MB are investing one billion Euros into battery tech and production, and furthermore another 10 billion Euro into "non polluting transportation".
they have also uppened the ante with their EV goals, as for earlier having a goal of having 10 EV on the market within 2025, they have actually moved it to 2022, impressive.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by ron_jeremy

There is more to a car than fuel.
I put my i3 in my socket during night, in complete control and in my home. I can also charge it free at any mall, or paying for it during longer drives, it cost 1/10 of petrol. Then you have about zero maintenance and cheaper insurance, no fuel pump issues, no turbo that's wrecked, no nothing.
When you have driven a EV, then return to your complex ICE, with 5000 parts in your engine, with a trannie that makes you wait for your next gear, it's just so obsolete and 1900 century imo.
And the future is right around the corner.

You know, no electric car has the soul, the feeling, the life of an M2, M3 or M5. It doesn't even have the feeling of a 118. It doesn't matter how fast it is. It is about the experience, the feeling, the smile, the engagement. It is all about the man-machine relationship.

You embraced this electric vehicle just because the Norwegian government (not the only one in the area) took away your freedom of choice with ridiculous taxes and forced you to buy electric vehicles, an expensive box with a motor and a battery.

5000 parts means technology and a century of evolution. I take my hat off for any fast 5000 parts vehicle and I turn my back on any electric vehicle. Please don't forget that you are sitting on top of a toxic battery (nope, it is not that sealed as you believe) and in an EMF environment.

Also, please read, the whole thing is the other way around, 19th, actually 18th century is the electric vehicle.

[Thr]

Originally Posted by Alden_88M

So many people in the forums still believes in the lies that the big OPEC have promoted, The grid won't be able to hold if everyone switches to electric cars, Lithium is mined bla bla bla, Stop spreading false lies this is the reason why trump won in the USA people believing other peoples opinions to be facts without fact checking them self.

https://www.mediamatters.org/researc...ic-cars/185798

https://www.forbes.com/2010/04/24/th...ctric-car.html

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green

Here is a couple of sites to read about myths regarding EV cars, SO please stop spreading your own opinion as a fact on bimmerpost, if you don't like EV cars that is fine but don't be spreading half truths and none fact based opinions regarding them.

Unless you have driven or owned a EV car for a longer extended period of time, the opinion you have on them is rather irrelevant. And if you have and still feel they don't meet your requirements it is still your own opinion on owning one and not the the truth regarding EV cars. And probably as with any car out there you experience of your EV car may be different from someone else who owned the same EV car just as with petrol/diesel cars. Two people both buying their M3s can have a very different experience regarding their cars.

My father has owned his i3 for 4 years now, and i have driven it a lot and this is one of the first i3s that came.

Maintenance? No there is no maintenance he hasn't been billed for any mechanical maintenance so far during his 4 year ownership why? because there is nothing to maintain. Except software upgrades.

Range? A bit on the low side for me so his I3 doesn't suit my needs but his needs are suited perfectly, any anxiety cause of it? No not even a little bit just plan your trip and you will be fine. I have never found my self stranded anywhere with that car sens you can charge the damn thing pretty much everywhere you go there is 230V power outlet. But this is the first generation with "only" 120 km on the range. Perfect for city driving.

Performance? Pretty damn good for not being a sports car and loads of fun at red lights or crossings when you step on it and those behind you reacts so slowly while you blast off really fast.

Winter time? The range doesn't take any beating that i have noticed and i live in Sweden where our winters have an average temp of -5 to -10c and during nights drops bellow -15c.

Battery holding? Yes 4 years in and a software optimization later the car went from 111 km to 120 km on one charge. I don't know what they did but they did something. Any diminishing on the range as a said he gets further now then when he got the car so that is a no on that point.

Expensive? Yeah it is a an expensive car that i agree on, but then again BMW is a "premium" brand and so is Tesla, so pricing no surprises there they are expensive, but there is shitloads of other car that have EV that isn't premium brand and can get you as far as 280-350 km on one charge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ntly_available

And whats the point of EV cars? To get people who uses the car as a A to B transporter to switch to EV and not to hunt the people who uses M cars as their driving cars or some form of performance car they are a minority in emission release it is the big crowd the 95% of the people on the planet that uses the car for what it is a way to get around and do all the daily stuff not the enthusiast people whom's emission doesn't leave a big footprint sens most people wont buy an performance car as their daily driving car, if anything the people here should encourage people to switch to EVs. So the environmentalist out there stops hunting people driving performance cars.

I completely agree with you. I'm probably going to buy i3S for my wife as a DD. She doesn't need anything else for her daily commute (60 km). And I'll probably also like to drive it now and then.

I have had an i8 for 2.5 years as my DD. 42000 km now. No problems so far, and it's really capable winter vehicle also. Just wish it had more EV range. I like it but don't love it, I could say it's impressive.

But I love my M5 and manual Aston Vantage V8. They have real character, and most of all Aston has real sound and it's beautiful! i8 is faster than Aston (not M5), but so what. I'll really miss petrol cars and MT if they are banned. Should drive them now as much as possible. I'm afraid that our boys won't experience these kind of cars in the future. Or at least only on trackdays.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I spent $2110 in fuel over the past year driving my FBO 335i 35,000 miles. Not sure how you calculate double that savings. :

I was about to say is the poster also drinking it to get through that much fuel?! I do 20,000 miles plus per year and spend about 2k a year in the UK and we have expensive fuel here compared to the states.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by Tracus

You know, no electric car has the soul, the feeling, the life of an M2, M3 or M5. It doesn't even have the feeling of a 118. It doesn't matter how fast it is. It is about the experience, the feeling, the smile, the engagement. It is all about the man-machine relationship.

You embraced this electric vehicle just because the Norwegian government (not the only one in the area) took away your freedom of choice with ridiculous taxes and forced you to buy electric vehicles, an expensive box with a motor and a battery.

5000 parts means technology and a century of evolution. I take my hat off for any fast 5000 parts vehicle and I turn my back on any electric vehicle. Please don't forget that you are sitting on top of a toxic battery (nope, it is not that sealed as you believe) and in an EMF environment.

Also, please read, the whole thing is the other way around, 19th, actually 18th century is the electric vehicle.

Greetings from Norway!

I hope you got a nice venting from your post, so full of emotion and thoughts from your heart.

My freedom? i'm not in jail, and i can buy ICE cars. In fact i have an F25.

And I'm not saying i3 or other EV is a replacement of any M, it is not. It is a replacement first and foremost of DD cars, and the bunch of ordinary ICE vehicles out there. I "embrace" EV because it is the obvious future, the next step, it's clean, easy to own and drive and is very very effective!

I think i'll refrain from comenting about ICE vs EV on the toxic part.

Love Canada, BTW. Been there a couple of summers.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Thr

I completely agree with you. I'm probably going to buy i3S for my wife as a DD. She doesn't need anything else for her daily commute (60 km). And I'll probably also like to drive it now and then.

I have had an i8 for 2.5 years as my DD. 42000 km now. No problems so far, and it's really capable winter vehicle also. Just wish it had more EV range. I like it but don't love it, I could say it's impressive.

But I love my M5 and manual Aston Vantage V8. They have real character, and most of all Aston has real sound and it's beautiful! i8 is faster than Aston (not M5), but so what. I'll really miss petrol cars and MT if they are banned. Should drive them now as much as possible. I'm afraid that our boys won't experience these kind of cars in the future. Or at least only on trackdays.

Did you go to Mantorp this spring? I met a finnish i8 owner there. He said he was going to sell his i8 to his father or something. You?

Anyway, EVs are not replacing the Astons of this world. It's replacing the 520d and the 118d. Well, and some other cars.

Besides, I've gone i3 + Tesla now and actually sold my M2. It just didn't make sense since I don't have time for track days.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Tracus

You know, no electric car has the soul, the feeling, the life of an M2, M3 or M5. It doesn't even have the feeling of a 118. It doesn't matter how fast it is. It is about the experience, the feeling, the smile, the engagement. It is all about the man-machine relationship.

You embraced this electric vehicle just because the Norwegian government (not the only one in the area) took away your freedom of choice with ridiculous taxes and forced you to buy electric vehicles, an expensive box with a motor and a battery.

5000 parts means technology and a century of evolution. I take my hat off for any fast 5000 parts vehicle and I turn my back on any electric vehicle. Please don't forget that you are sitting on top of a toxic battery (nope, it is not that sealed as you believe) and in an EMF environment.

Also, please read, the whole thing is the other way around, 19th, actually 18th century is the electric vehicle.

Is this any different than saying no turbo car has the soul of a higher reviving, naturally aspirated car? Or EPS vs HPS, or a manual vs a flappy paddle?

Tl;dr Get off my lawn!!!

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Is this any different than saying no turbo car has the soul of a higher reviving, naturally aspirated car? Or EPS vs HPS, or a manual vs a flappy paddle?

Tl;dr Get off my lawn!!!

Good point, it´s a mere decade since we last had this discussion, what is a true M car?
A natural aspirated S engine vs a forced induction one.
This discussion can go on, some prefer a clamshell dumb phone, others settle for the iPhone 8 edition, for each his own.
Be happy with your own choice, that´s what´s important.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ron_jeremy

Good point, it´s a mere decade since we last had this discussion, what is a true M car?
A natural aspirated S engine vs a forced induction one.
This discussion can go on, some prefer a clamshell dumb phone, others settle for the iPhone 8 edition, for each his own.
Be happy with your own choice, that´s what´s important.

Wait, dumb Norway doesn't get a voice in this!

Kidding. Where are you? I've only been to Oslo and Stavanger, but had a great time and imagine those roads are a lot of fun in an i3.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Why put up with this when I can refuel a 5 Series in 5 min and achieve 400 miles of range? :

Because you should never have to "fill up" an EV. You leave the house every day with a full "tank".

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Because you should never have to "fill up" an EV. You leave the house every day with a full "tank".

The way I look at it, you have to fill up an EV every single day. :

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

The way I look at it, you have to fill up an EV every single day. :

Just like you have to fill up your phone every day.

[JorgenM]

glennQNYC has a phone running on diesel so he only needs to drive to the local gas station to fill up his phone every 2-3 day

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

glennQNYC has a phone running on diesel so he only needs to drive to the local gas station to fill up his phone every 2-3 day

I hear you have to add DEF frequently if you watch a lot of "educational" videos.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

glennQNYC has a phone running on diesel so he only needs to drive to the local gas station to fill up his phone every 2-3 day

Is it at least a clean diesel and require DEF fluid every 2 months?