My Big Fat Geek Wording - More ICE vs. EV debate

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Tracus

You know, no electric car has the soul, the feeling, the life of an M2, M3 or M5. It doesn't even have the feeling of a 118. It doesn't matter how fast it is. It is about the experience, the feeling, the smile, the engagement. It is all about the man-machine relationship.

You embraced this electric vehicle just because the Norwegian government (not the only one in the area) took away your freedom of choice with ridiculous taxes and forced you to buy electric vehicles, an expensive box with a motor and a battery.

5000 parts means technology and a century of evolution. I take my hat off for any fast 5000 parts vehicle and I turn my back on any electric vehicle. Please don't forget that you are sitting on top of a toxic battery (nope, it is not that sealed as you believe) and in an EMF environment.

Also, please read, the whole thing is the other way around, 19th, actually 18th century is the electric vehicle.

As am M driver, sorry, I disagree. EVs are different, but that doesn't mean they have no soul.

Unless it's a Prius. That has no soul and it's actually jealous of the driver's soul and uses it as fuel to drive the car.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Tracus

You know, no electric car has the soul, the feeling, the life of an M2, M3 or M5. It doesn't even have the feeling of a 118. It doesn't matter how fast it is. It is about the experience, the feeling, the smile, the engagement. It is all about the man-machine relationship.

You embraced this electric vehicle just because the Norwegian government (not the only one in the area) took away your freedom of choice with ridiculous taxes and forced you to buy electric vehicles, an expensive box with a motor and a battery.

5000 parts means technology and a century of evolution. I take my hat off for any fast 5000 parts vehicle and I turn my back on any electric vehicle. Please don't forget that you are sitting on top of a toxic battery (nope, it is not that sealed as you believe) and in an EMF environment.

Also, please read, the whole thing is the other way around, 19th, actually 18th century is the electric vehicle.

This guy is ignorant!

[WAY]

Originally Posted by Tracus

You know, no electric car has the soul, the feeling, the life of an M2, M3 or M5. It doesn't even have the feeling of a 118. It doesn't matter how fast it is. It is about the experience, the feeling, the smile, the engagement. It is all about the man-machine relationship.

You embraced this electric vehicle just because the Norwegian government (not the only one in the area) took away your freedom of choice with ridiculous taxes and forced you to buy electric vehicles, an expensive box with a motor and a battery.

5000 parts means technology and a century of evolution. I take my hat off for any fast 5000 parts vehicle and I turn my back on any electric vehicle. Please don't forget that you are sitting on top of a toxic battery (nope, it is not that sealed as you believe) and in an EMF environment.

Also, please read, the whole thing is the other way around, 19th, actually 18th century is the electric vehicle.

Have you owned an electric car? I've own more than a dozen M cars, and also have an i3. The i3 is more fun in many ways, unless of course you are taking it to the track. If by soul you mean noise, then yes the i3 has very little. But otherwise, the i3 certainly has its own unique "soul". Oh, and I am from Australia, where we get ZERO subsidy from the government for EV.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Just like you have to fill up your phone every day.

I take a shower every day too but neither is relevant to this discussion.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I take a shower every day too but neither is relevant to this discussion.

You are making a big deal about opening a cap and plugging a cable into it.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by jmg

You are making a big deal about opening a cap and plugging a cable into it.

Not making a big deal at all. I'm just adding that you're on the wrong side of reality if you think that an EV never needs to be filled up. This task, however minimal, is a daily requirement that must happen without fail.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Wait, dumb Norway doesn't get a voice in this!

Kidding. Where are you? I've only been to Oslo and Stavanger, but had a great time and imagine those roads are a lot of fun in an i3.

I´m sorry, i could´t help myself.
Well, i´m somewhere in between those cities, along the coast down south.
We have roads for every purpose, like this.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Tracus

5000 parts means technology...

In that case, look out automotive world, because I am embarking on a historic undertaking to design an engine with no less that double that - 10,000 freaking parts! Yes, you read it correctly - that's ten thousand! And you know what that means, right? If 5000 parts mean technology, 10,000 parts means technocracy! I am going to science the absolute sh*t out of this!

But that's only the beginning. My ultimate goal is to design and conceive a vehicle that is 100% mechanical, consisting of no less than 100 million parts!

How will I do this, you may ask? Well, the master plan is to replace all electronics with mechanical equivalents. In much the same way that microchip fabricators cram millions of transistors (even billions now) onto a piece of silicon, I intend to mount millions of microscopic mechanical switches into boxes that create what is in essence a mechanical computer. It is going to be epic, and it is going to change everything!

But it does not stop at the ECU. We must mechanize the entirety of the vehicle! There will be all manner of levers, pulleys, gears, bearings, shafts, push-me-pull-yous, whatzits, futzits, nut zits? (I hope not!), doohickeys, thing-a-ma-bobs, widgets, fidgets, and bridgets (yes, *female* fidgets!). All of these, clacking and clanking, bumping and banging, happily along in a beautiful symphony of noisy nonsense! Wiring is now linkage and cabling and even body panels move up-and-down and all-around just because we can do it - certainly for no good reason whatsoever, that's for sure.

I am telling you - nothing electrical remains. Even the headlights and tail lights will be mechanical. I'm not sure how that's possible or what that even means, but my team of researchers is working on it as we speak. They've already developed mechanical fire, whip cream, and radiation. So light is next up, and we are close!

One seat in this wondrous world of wacky, mechanized machinations will make you feel like you've zoomed straight into the 22nd century! Its coming soon, and its going to make you freak out, set off some diesel fireworks, and post paintings to the mechanical internet from your rotary cell phone!

Wooo!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Not making a big deal at all. I'm just adding that you're on the wrong side of reality if you think that an EV never needs to be filled up. This task, however minimal, is a daily requirement that must happen without fail.

I think everyone knows what the daily requirements are. I still don't understand why you think it's difficult.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by jmg

I think everyone knows what the daily requirements are. I still don't understand why you think it's difficult.

We're going in circles here... What makes you think I believe this is difficult? I'm only pointing out the daily charging requirement is unyielding. Big difference.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

We're going in circles here... What makes you think I believe this is difficult? I'm only pointing out the daily charging requirement is unyielding. Big difference.

It is not a daily requirement if you drive less than a full charge every day which a majority of people do. I have two coworkers that charge their cars once a week, while they sleep because there commute is not 90mile (i3) or 300miles (Tesla) so no different than people filling up gas tanks. So the daily plug in argument, which is at best a mere inconvenience, is a fallacy. We get it, you like ICE, I do too, but you are throwing excuses at the wall to shit on EVs and hoping something sticks.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

[Charging] is not a daily requirement if you drive less than a full charge every day which a majority of people do.

A majority of EV owners use their vehicle multiple days without charging? Care to share where you found that evidence? There may be a small percentage of people doing this, but I'm calling BS on the "majority" qualifier. Especially going a week at a time!

This is probably an appropriate time for everyone to think back to what point they experience rage anxiety with their ICE. For me it is when there is about 50 miles of range left in the tank.... and I can refuel nearly anyplace in 5 min! For me I'd at least double this for an EV; so the effective range for an EV is far less than the total possible range.

[MSups6]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

throwing excuses at the wall to shit on EVs and hoping something sticks.

Come on its not like its hard to shit on them.

I got a condo, EV is an impractical joke to me.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

We're going in circles here... What makes you think I believe this is difficult? I'm only pointing out the daily charging requirement is unyielding. Big difference.

I don't find it a big deal to plug in. For some reason you do. Why?

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by MSups6

Come on its not like its hard to shit on them.

I got a condo, EV is an impractical joke to me.

Was not addressing you, but okay? Good for you?

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

A majority of EV owners use their vehicle multiple days without charging? Care to share where you found that evidence? There may be a small percentage of people doing this, but I'm calling BS on the "majority" qualifier. Especially going a week at a time!

This is probably an appropriate time for everyone to think back to what point they experience rage anxiety with their ICE. For me it is when there is about 50 miles of range left in the tank.... and I can refuel nearly anyplace in 5 min! For me I'd have to at least double this for an EV.

You see you keep using that language - for me. You live in New Jersey for Christs sake. If you lived somewhere like LA or San Fran where charging stations are as common as gas stations, this issue is nonexistent. Especially when many companies/buildings have EV chargers for you while you are at work.

As for my majority comment. I do not have an exact study to back it (just like you do not for your ridiculous daily charging claim) but the average commute in LA is roughly 9.1 (See LA TIMES study) so at 18 Miles a day, that is roughly 100 miles a work week - well under many ranges on some EVs. So without a study, and some basic common sense, my majority comment is likely spot on. While yes, my two coworkers probably are in the minority that do not actually charge every day but once a week, it does not mean that the majority of people HAVE to charge every day, when they do not in LA. The reason they do charge everyday is because it is as easy, if not easier (when you have stations at home or work) to charge the car (plug in a socket, so hard Oo no) than having to wait in line at a gas station to fill up once a week. I get it, this is not the case in New Jersey, but do not act like it’s a nationwide issue when it is not.

Again, you want deflect that is fine, but you seem to want to poke holes in my argument without ever addressing me calling you out for spending $2110 over 35k Miles on your FBO 335i which means you would have had to get 35 mpg at $2.00 a gallon. So as you doubt my logic, I doubt yours in kind.

This all started because I answered you why question and give you some reasons why people would choose EV. Just because you decided to make this about your honor to shit on EVs is not my issue. Like I have said before, people differ. Now have a beer.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by jmg

I don't find it a big deal to plug in. For some reason you do. Why?

As compared to an ICE, an EV is full of compromises. My initial question is why put up with these compromises? The legitimate answers submitted in this thread so far are zero tailpipe emissions, and reduced maintenance. This isn't throwing feces as much as a real question. Your position seems to be there are no real compromises. I take issue with that.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

As compared to an ICE, an EV is full of compromises. My initial question is why put up with these compromises. The legitimate answers submitted in this thread so far are zero tailpipe emissions, and reduced maintenance. This isn't throwing feces as much as a real question.

Why not? Those things are more important to certain people.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

As compared to an ICE, an EV is full of compromises. My initial question is why put up with these compromises? The legitimate answers submitted in this thread so far are zero tailpipe emissions, and reduced maintenance. This isn't throwing feces as much as a real question. Your position seems to be there are no real compromises. I take issue with that.

You are the one looping back and I did t say there were no compromises. I just don't think plugging in at night, a very painless and simple task, is a compromise. It literally takes 15 seconds.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by jmg

You are making a big deal about opening a cap and plugging a cable into it.

Caps are fine in the shower to keep your head dry, but don't plug them into a cable or you'll do more than dry your hair

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

As compared to an ICE, an EV is full of compromises. My initial question is why put up with these compromises? The legitimate answers submitted in this thread so far are zero tailpipe emissions, and reduced maintenance. This isn't throwing feces as much as a real question. Your position seems to be there are no real compromises. I take issue with that.

The word your looking for is: balance.
There is nothing that´s only good or bad, there is both.

An ICE have it´s benefits, range is one obviously, what else is there, tracking it, surely, then what? Feelings, tradition, the sound of a V8 i guess.
Then what?
What is the flip side then, maintaining, economy, various problems due to complex parts, emissions, hopeless inefficient and above all, uncertain future due to politics.


So for the EV, it´s ridiculous efficient, having a socket everywhere is also super practical. And it´s basically just like charging your mobile in the evening or night.
I work at ABB, and have a dozen of coworkers with different EV´s. The charging is personal, depending on your driving obviously.
But, basically their charging it about once or twice a week, but more during winter, because the battery drops up to about 30%. But that is with climatization on every day, to get a cold or hot car.
It´s much more spacious inside, the EV cars can be so much more creative build, it´s much more technical, yet much simpler and easier to maintain. Insurance is cheaper as well.
It´s just a effortless drive, not lag, no downshifts, no hassle.
The tech is not fully mature, thus the range is not there yet.
Limited options of cars, and long delivery time for the attractive models.

Read this link also.
https://electrek.co/2017/09/06/tesla...ggest-catalys/

[BwoodBMW]

I live in LA... If I had a tesla I'd only have to charge it once every week or two with my current commute and usage. Of about 200 employees we have I bet 30 teslas in the garage. A few of those people live in apartments and only charge their cars here at work or at stations. Many of them only plug in once or twice a week.

I know current EVs aren't a great solution for everybody but believe me, to say they are a fad is crazy. For a huge percentage of people in this city they are an excellent option. I don't have one because I love my M3 and there isn't an EV that appeals to me yet. I'll be VERY surprised if that is still the case 5 years from now. The reliability of these cars as tech improves will likely far surpass anything you could ever achieve with ICE, the performance levels are going to get crazy, if battery weight drops the potential to create lighter cars for performance or range improvements is phenomenal... They aren't going anywhere.