Mercedes and BMW Admit They Have Too Many Models, But the Solution Is a Bummer

[doccyber]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Get rid of the GTs. Get rid of the 4s. No more 6 sedans. Leave it as it once was. Make BMW great again.

Totally agree. 4 needs to go.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by MRV99

Yea but why do people not realize that the "4" line is nothing but renamed "3" line. When did the 4 become so special..... the day you took 2 of the 3 body styles away from the "3" lineup. Still don't understand the desire the need to kill the 3 series.

+1

IMO, BMW should keep 3ers 4 doors and 4ers 2 doors. The 4GC should be in the 3 series lineup and offered as the 3 series sedan. No reason to ever kill the 3 series and no reason to ever call a 4 door a coupe anything.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by doccyber

Totally agree. 4 needs to go.

If you got rid of the 4 Series...you'd just rename it the 3 Series coupe again...hence not really eliminating anything.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by MRV99

Yea but why do people not realize that the "4" line is nothing but renamed "3" line. When did the 4 become so special..... the day you took 2 of the 3 body styles away from the "3" lineup. Still don't understand the desire the need to kill the 3 series.

While I understand the underpinnings are basic 3 series, they are not the same. I haven't seen a 3 series with a liftback/hatch yet (3GT excluded), and the 4 Coupe is gorgeous..much prettier than any 3 series.

My comment was just an idea in consolidation. They certainly don't have to have so many models. Why not make the M3 the halo for the 3 series and rely on the 4 for other sales? Priced competively, I don't see any downside...(and you can't stand a hatch/lines of the 4...they can step up to the 5) or pony up for the M3

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by kozzi

+1

IMO, BMW should keep 3ers 4 doors and 4ers 2 doors. The 4GC should be in the 3 series lineup and offered as the 3 series sedan. No reason to ever kill the 3 series and no reason to ever call a 4 door a coupe anything.

Kozzi...4 series GC =HATCH...lower, wider than the 3.

Many of the manufacturers are using the Coupe' term. The MBZ GLC Sport Coupe is an SAV with 4 doors.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Kozzi...4 series GC =HATCH...lower, wider than the 3.

Many of the manufacturers are using the Coupe' term. The MBZ GLC Sport Coupe is an SAV with 4 doors.

I know what it is but that doesn't mean I have to like it's name nor would I ever call a 4GC a hatch...even though it kinda is one lol.

IMHO:

sedan=4 doors
coupe=2 doors

THE END

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

While I understand the underpinnings are basic 3 series, they are not the same. I haven't seen a 3 series with a liftback/hatch yet (3GT excluded), and the 4 Coupe is gorgeous..much prettier than any 3 series.

My comment was just an idea in consolidation. They certainly don't have to have so many models. Why not make the M3 the halo for the 3 series and rely on the 4 for other sales? Priced competively, I don't see any downside...(and you can't stand a hatch/lines of the 4...they can step up to the 5) or pony up for the M3

Because the 3 series sold over 50% more the last 2 years than the 4 series. You don't consolidate by killing the 3er, the best selling BMW line. BTW, the M3CP IS the "halo" of the 3 series. "Prettier" is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, the M3CP is the best looking vehicle BMW makes.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Why is it BMW has to step up their game in the EV market when Mercedes and Audi get the plaudits? The EQ and Q8 are concept cars and around 2 years from production. This had to be communicated to the media who also reported the same thing. BMW are the leading manufacturer for Premium EV vehicles in the segment.
The current iPerformance models not only lead their respective segments but account for around 10% of total volume and in some markets are the best selling model in that series. The BMWi3 is showing increase after increase each month with additional models due to be launched in the Summer including the Performance i3S. As well as an upgraded BMW i8 with additional Roadster and high performance iS.
Joining the range is the 530e iPerformance and a new MINI Countryman E. Followed by a new BMW X3 iPerformance a precursor to a full electric BMW X3. In the middle of 2018 will see the reveal of the all new BMW 3er which again will be offered as iPerformance and a full electric edition.

Other vehicles earmarked include the X7. The 8er Gran Coupe and a full electric X5 as well as a new BMWi SAV/Crossover. The BMW iNext taking shape is all about the next step. If the i8 was the "What if?" The iNext is the "inevitable"
And of course BMW will replace the i3 and i8 with the i8 offering full electric.
BMW has a current full electric i8 as well as one driven by Fuel Cell and of course an Autonomous model.

When talk about the application of sustainable drive trains? It is no longer a case of if? But when? The first model will be developed from BMWs three stage Power eDrive strategy which will be a 5er again to be followed in additional models.

We have to look at the future and proposals in which cities globally or looking at the banning of combustion cars. If we take China the worlds no1 luxury car market they are looking at a ban on all vehicles except EVs.
BMWs in development "Dreamliner" will be offered in full electric and can even be placed within the next generation of Rolls-Royce models.

The all-electric MINI taking shape like the BMW Next 100 is derived from its Vision Concept to have a similar imprint to a BMW i3.

It is inaccurate to say we are behind as it is to say we are stalling.
The overall stumbling block for current EVs and PHEVs is of course Range Anxiety and BMW customers are in transition. Some have already decided whilst some have already crossed over. In regards to what BMW offer in sustainable drive trains the company wants to make sure all areas are covered from a base Electric MINi. Increased popular SUV models. High Performance M cars and even luxury plus Rolls-Royce models. As the CEO did announce it is a Marathon not a short Sprint.

Hmmm... But the competition in the EV space isn't about Audi or Merc. It's about Tesla.

Tesla have three advantages.
1. They realize that an electric car just have to be an electric version of a normal car. Not something futuristic or special.
2. Bigger battery than everyone else.
3. A continent-wide charging network both in NA and EU.

Everything else is done better by BMW. But yet Teska sell a significant amount of cars.
Point 1 and 2 should be easily doable by BMW as well. So why don't you?

[MRV99]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

While I understand the underpinnings are basic 3 series, they are not the same. I haven't seen a 3 series with a liftback/hatch yet (3GT excluded), and the 4 Coupe is gorgeous..much prettier than any 3 series.

My comment was just an idea in consolidation. They certainly don't have to have so many models. Why not make the M3 the halo for the 3 series and rely on the 4 for other sales? Priced competively, I don't see any downside...(and you can't stand a hatch/lines of the 4...they can step up to the 5) or pony up for the M3

First off the beauty of the 4 series is personal opinion compared to the three.

Second, no i don't want a hatchback with a back seat with less functionality than a three

Third, you want me to buy a much larger boat of a car in the 5 series? I purposely left the 5 series ranks which I owned 540, 545, 550 because I could not stand the F body size our lack of sports car feel.

There are so many models of BMW's which can be axed before the most popular car for 30+ years.

[Jaghave]

1. Series hatch back
2 series two door
3 series four door
4 series roadster
5 seroes light duty suv
6 series heavy duty suv
7 series halo car

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by kozzi

Because the 3 series sold over 50% more the last 2 years than the 4 series. You don't consolidate by killing the 3er, the best selling BMW line. BTW, the M3CP IS the "halo" of the 3 series. "Prettier" is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, the M3CP is the best looking vehicle BMW makes.

LOL..I know the M3 is the halo...you snipped the rest of my post where I said 'and let the 4 be the volume seller..(rather than the 3 series).

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by MRV99

First off the beauty of the 4 series is personal opinion compared to the three.

Second, no i don't want a hatchback with a back seat with less functionality than a three

Third, you want me to buy a much larger boat of a car in the 5 series? I purposely left the 5 series ranks which I owned 540, 545, 550 because I could not stand the F body size our lack of sports car feel.

There are so many models of BMW's which can be axed before the most popular car for 30+ years.

1) True..but the 2dr coupe is a beautiful car. I'll agree the GC is more an eye of the beholder, but I like it.

2). 4s are wider..the roof is lower..is that what you're referring to? My GC, seats down, holds quite a bit. I don't have 'little ones' anymore to worry about who's sitting there.30 yrs with the same basic design cues in the 3 make it boring (M cars the exception). Biggest reason I like the 4 over it. It's DIFFERENT.

3). I mentioned earlier the 5 was a 'cruiser' now..(except the M5) due to size.

4.) Mostly agree.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

While I understand the underpinnings are basic 3 series, they are not the same. I haven't seen a 3 series with a liftback/hatch yet (3GT excluded), and the 4 Coupe is gorgeous..much prettier than any 3 series.

My comment was just an idea in consolidation. They certainly don't have to have so many models. Why not make the M3 the halo for the 3 series and rely on the 4 for other sales? Priced competively, I don't see any downside...(and you can't stand a hatch/lines of the 4...they can step up to the 5) or pony up for the M3

Sorry if I misunderstood and took what you wrote literally.

Downside? About a $400 million gamble in annual sales that would not work out very well for investors.

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

LOL..I know the M3 is the halo...you snipped the rest of my post where I said 'and let the 4 be the volume seller..(rather than the 3 series).

Didn't "snip" anything. I clearly mention that the 3er is BMW's number 1 seller. You can't "rely on" or "let" something be a volume seller...you actually have to sell it.

We can go on and on and on...you can't kill the 3 series.

THE END

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by kozzi

Sorry if I misunderstood and took what you wrote literally.

Downside? About a $400 million gamble in annual sales that would not work out very well for investors.



Didn't "snip" anything. I clearly mention that the 3er is BMW's number 1 seller. You can't "rely on" or "let" something be a volume seller...you actually have to sell it.

We can go on and on and on...you can't kill the 3 series.

THE END

BMW gambles each time they come out with a new model. They also gamble after each LCI cycle . I'm sure the start-up costs for a new (non prior based platform) are astronomical.

[cncmastr]

It's a shit show.

[Germanauto]

BMW has lost its identity.

A base model E90 feels like a race car compared to a well-equipped F30.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

BMW has lost its identity.

A base model E90 feels like a race car compared to a well-equipped F30.

Sad but true :

[rainfall]

Originally Posted by kozzi

I know what it is but that doesn't mean I have to like it's name nor would I ever call a 4GC a hatch...even though it kinda is one lol.

IMHO:

sedan=4 doors
coupe=2 doors

THE END

BMW has a weird naming for everything, but I think I get what they are trying to do.

They are (or were) so obsessed to make every driver happy that they try to go for all niches and sub-niches.

the classic example is the people who want the looks of a coupe with lower roof, but still want the practicality of a car with 4 doors. While I disagree it should call "coupe", it's nice that BMW is thinking about these tiny sub-segments of the market

This is why I admire BMW so much. I mean, who the heck would want a 320i with manual transmission? For whatever reason, someone can't afford a 340i and wants a 3-series in manual transmission... and BMW offers that.

They are a for-profit organization. More options means more cost, but they do these things for the customer and we highly appreciate that, right?

[atomic]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

The Gran Turismos are fat turds kill them already.

GTs are awesome. I would get rid of 3 series sedan. Sedans are pretty impractical I don't know why anyone would buy one.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by atomic

GTs are awesome. I would get rid of 3 series sedan. Sedans are pretty impractical I don't know why anyone would buy one.

Because car. GT's are fugly as hell

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by rainfall

BMW has a weird naming for everything, but I think I get what they are trying to do.

They are (or were) so obsessed to make every driver happy that they try to go for all niches and sub-niches.

the classic example is the people who want the looks of a coupe with lower roof, but still want the practicality of a car with 4 doors. While I disagree it should call "coupe", it's nice that BMW is thinking about these tiny sub-segments of the market

This is why I admire BMW so much. I mean, who the heck would want a 320i with manual transmission? For whatever reason, someone can't afford a 340i and wants a 3-series in manual transmission... and BMW offers that.

They are a for-profit organization. More options means more cost, but they do these things for the customer and we highly appreciate that, right?

Yes, weird names but I do like the sub-niches where they are really separate vehicles. How many virtually similar 4 doors on the same chassis does BMW need to sell? I like the 4GC...but IMO, they should just put it under the 3 series and stop with all the series coupe confusion. Let the 4 series evolve more along its own line and really start to separate it from the 3er. Maybe I'm just the only one confused...and I'm OK with that when you call a 4 door a coupe.

[supra93]

A little off topic, but it Autocar is saying the SL and SLC will live on.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-engineered-22