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      03-24-2017, 05:04 PM   #67
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Hi,

Slow day, so I'll take a moment to play....

I don't think that we exchanged comments before, so not clear why you seem animated?

My comments below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by d05wtt View Post
The fact that you think they do go off-road, just made my point. BMW SUVs were never made to go off-road, just like the Porsche Cayennes, Cadillac Escallades, Audis, etc. And if you think they were supposed to, then you really don't understand. I totally get that you think the moniker "SUV" should mean that they are off-road capable, and in a way I agree. But the reality is that most car brands make SUVs not to do that, and BMW is one of them. They never pretended to be from the start.
I drove the X5 in 2000. No room in back to load gear, the salesman kept telling me the X5 handles like a sports sedan, but his comments were incongruent with the feedback during our drive, and as you point out, the vehicle isn't even designed to go off-road. Maybe I misunderstood BMW's brave new direction, and simply didn't realize the value of a delicate truck with limited cargo capacity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d05wtt View Post
When you made comments IN A PUBLIC FORUM that criticize the direction BMW design is going, you left yourself open to criticism also. It's your right to opine as it is mine to opine about your comments. I will borrow your own words, "you take my opinion too personally" and throw it right back at ya. Btw, not once did I call you "ignorant" nor call you names. Since you will "never" buy another BMW, does that still make you a BMW enthusiast? And if not, I guess I won't be seeing your comments in this forum again. In that case, I wish you happiness in your life, and maybe someday, I'll see you in the Jeep Grand Cherokee forums. Take care.
Nor did I speak disparagingly about you. I simply opined in a public forum. I ordinarily enjoy learning from others with different experiences from me. Sadly, not so much opportunity for that here. Yes, I can't consider myself a "BMW enthusiast" today because the attributes that drew me to the marque 30 years ago have been abandoned by current management. Nor am I an off-road enthusiast, so wasn't active in Jeep forums.

Wishing you well and have a nice weekend.
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      03-24-2017, 05:42 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
when the price to lease an x3 is cheaper than a 3er wagon, of course the blind public will go with the x3. bmw prices it to move more SUVs than other models in the US. and being built in the US helps to keep that cost where its at. its no surprise. The people want SUVs because all car commercials are SUVs. so Scott isnt wrong when he says thats what the people want. its what they know and think they want. A car purchase is a large investment for the average family and they are not willing to "make it work" with something potentially smaller even though its all they need.

Id love a 1er sedan with xdrive and a turbo 4 pushing close to 300hp. is it possible, yes. will bmw offer it here? nope.
Hmm..Audi's S3?
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      03-24-2017, 05:57 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by CalCarNut View Post
Hmm..Audi's S3?
But then I'm driving a vw and not a Bmw.
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      03-24-2017, 08:17 PM   #70
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BMW has lost its identity. Aside from a few remaining desirable cars like the ///Ms of the world, 240 and 440 it's entire lineup is filled with bloated numb cars that don't deserve the roundel badge. My E90 felt like a race car compared to the F30 I drove, and the F30's interior wasn't any better in design and was even a notch below in quality, so I chose to keep the superior BMW of the two.

Going off that, BMW clearly doesn't give a shit about their interiors as of late either. Merc, Audi, Porsche, and even Lexus (check out the interior of the new LS, it's full of passion unlike the 7) have stepped up their interior design and quality with their latest redesigns. BMW's aren't bad but they leave a whole lot to be desired.

The brand as a whole reeks of GM syndrome: complacency and arrogance. Whoring out their reputation in the pursuit of next quarter's sales figures. Shareholders matter more than customers.

The only BMW that would get my $$ in the future is the ///M3/4. Otherwise it's hello Porsche.
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      03-26-2017, 07:35 AM   #71
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Embracing the future and our future.
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      03-26-2017, 09:44 AM   #72
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Interesting article from Jalopnik (I know I know, it's Jalopnik)

"Everything is fine for BMW, in the same way that everything is fine when you wake up ten minutes before you’re supposed to take that final exam; or like how everything was “fine” for both the Atlanta Falcons and New England Patriots at halftime in this year’s Superbowl. Basically I’m saying BMW is officially in “oh shit” mode."

Full article: http://jalopnik.com/bmw-oh-shit-oh-s...hit-1793627966
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      03-26-2017, 03:12 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by DDD31 View Post
Interesting article from Jalopnik (I know I know, it's Jalopnik)

"Everything is fine for BMW, in the same way that everything is fine when you wake up ten minutes before you’re supposed to take that final exam; or like how everything was “fine” for both the Atlanta Falcons and New England Patriots at halftime in this year’s Superbowl. Basically I’m saying BMW is officially in “oh shit” mode."

Full article: http://jalopnik.com/bmw-oh-shit-oh-s...hit-1793627966
Can't say many people disagree at this point.

Bmw continues to piss of their enthusiast core by continuing to dilute bmw m

They piss off their loyal lifelong brand customers by simultaneously lowering quality and reducing standard maintanance.

The fail to replace these traditional customers with the next generation of brand loyal customers. That would require them being aggressive with high quality electric vehicles (ie tesla with their fiercely loyal customers and put out good word just like bmw m fans of the past). Instead they put out "lifestyle" electric vehicles that attract superficial and least loyal type of customer.

They fail to attract alternative buyers looking for either the driver or uniqueness oriented buyers as alternatives to audi or benz who share such a similar space. They are now as generic as it gets in this space.

Scott as bmws official representative continues making a huge number of racist posts on the forum. Never seen a modern multinational company do that in current times. Truly mind boggling among all the above missteps. Would not be surprised if many people have already decided to go to another brand for their next purchase. At this point bmw is seen as an alt right or racist favored brand by some people. This number of people will only grow. Political opinions are hard to sway once they've been established. Scott has gone head first into joining the racist camp on behalf of bmw. You only limit yourself and your potential customer base. Strange.

An entire generation of people are swearing off bmw for one or more of the above reasons.

Right now they are not feeling the repercussions of this because of the huge explosion in Asian markets the last few years. That will eventually plateau and possibly shrink.

Then when the house of cards starts crashing, everything listed above will be a "wow no shit, how did they not see that as a massive mistake". But just like real estate, stock market, etc crashes, they won't see the obvious until it's too late.
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      03-26-2017, 04:16 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Embracing the future and our future.
Troll.
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      03-27-2017, 08:47 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Hi, and interesting. I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee after first shopping the X5. The X quickly fell from contention after learning it isn't even engineered for off-road use. The Jeep, on the other hand, was proficient both on and off-road, as well as being very comfortable, well-built, and reliable. I loved it during many mountain adventures, all-seasons.

I'm sincerely glad you enjoy your X3. It would be a boring world if we all drove the same vehicle. How do you use your X3?
Have had lots of SUVs over the years. They rarely/never see off-road duty. The X3 is my wife's daily driver. I also shopped the X5 when I bought the GC. The X5 was just a bit too big for my daily needs.

I'm excited for the new X3 as my current lease is up in January.
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      03-27-2017, 09:24 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by tyler9595 View Post
Have had lots of SUVs over the years. They rarely/never see off-road duty. The X3 is my wife's daily driver. I also shopped the X5 when I bought the GC. The X5 was just a bit too big for my daily needs.

I'm excited for the new X3 as my current lease is up in January.
Hi, thanks. I think that's why our perceptions of the X-class differ. I used my Jeep off-road and in deep snow frequently. The ability to function off-road was a prerequisite in my buying decision.

Cheers
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      03-29-2017, 03:15 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
BMW has lost its identity. Aside from a few remaining desirable cars like the ///Ms of the world, 240 and 440 it's entire lineup is filled with bloated numb cars that don't deserve the roundel badge. My E90 felt like a race car compared to the F30 I drove, and the F30's interior wasn't any better in design and was even a notch below in quality, so I chose to keep the superior BMW of the two.

Going off that, BMW clearly doesn't give a shit about their interiors as of late either. Merc, Audi, Porsche, and even Lexus (check out the interior of the new LS, it's full of passion unlike the 7) have stepped up their interior design and quality with their latest redesigns. BMW's aren't bad but they leave a whole lot to be desired.

The brand as a whole reeks of GM syndrome: complacency and arrogance. Whoring out their reputation in the pursuit of next quarter's sales figures. Shareholders matter more than customers.

The only BMW that would get my $$ in the future is the ///M3/4. Otherwise it's hello Porsche.
Being an E92 owner, I have to say the new generation of BMWs do have really nice interiors. I guess its a matter of opinion but for me, they are much better looking than Mercedes or Lexus. Also the quality is top notch with great fit and finish. I have been driving a 430i for a month and its been great so far. I do agree with you about the steering though, its very vague and I would hope BMW fixes this with the newer electronic units. The gearbox is fantastic thought, 8 speed ZF is super quick in the 430i.
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      04-02-2017, 09:36 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
BMW has lost its identity. Aside from a few remaining desirable cars like the ///Ms of the world, 240 and 440 it's entire lineup is filled with bloated numb cars that don't deserve the roundel badge.

The brand as a whole reeks of GM syndrome: complacency and arrogance. Whoring out their reputation in the pursuit of next quarter's sales figures. Shareholders matter more than customers.
The irony is that GM's present management learned from the errors of their predecessors. They win more quality awards today than BMW. They invented Magnetic damping technology. They invented (in collaboration with Ford) the 10 sp auto gearbox with faster gear shifts than PDK. They sell very high-output naturally aspirated motors. They build purpose built cars for enthusiasts as well as high-utility value vehicles for families. They test four door sedans on race tracks and at the Ring. The new Camaro (Camaro!) can arguably drop anything made in Germany short of a 918.

GM was the poster child for arrogance in the pursuit of short-term quarterly results. As a result the brand was severely punished by two generations of buyers. When I think of BMW today it reminds me of the bad old GM.
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      04-02-2017, 09:56 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
BMW has lost its identity. Aside from a few remaining desirable cars like the ///Ms of the world, 240 and 440 it's entire lineup is filled with bloated numb cars that don't deserve the roundel badge.

The brand as a whole reeks of GM syndrome: complacency and arrogance. Whoring out their reputation in the pursuit of next quarter's sales figures. Shareholders matter more than customers.
The irony is that GM's present management learned from the errors of their predecessors. They win more quality awards today than BMW. They invented Magnetic damping technology. They invented (in collaboration with Ford) the 10 sp auto gearbox with faster gear shifts than PDK. They sell very high-output naturally aspirated motors. They build purpose built cars for enthusiasts as well as high-utility value vehicles for families. They test four door sedans on race tracks and at the Ring. The new Camaro (Camaro!) can arguably drop anything made in Germany short of a 918.

GM was the poster child for arrogance in the pursuit of short-term quarterly results. As a result the brand was severely punished by two generations of buyers. When I think of BMW today it reminds me of the bad old GM.
Exactly.

Someone gets it.

It's this floating disaster waiting to happen. When it comes, people will look back and say "duh it was obvious". Right now bmw especially their marketing people are oblivious and living in a fantasy land kept afloat by Asian markets. As he says, we have seen his happen with gm as well as others like vw and Toyota to some extent. Short term future looks dim, many more enthusiasts will run away from this next generation unnecessarily.

Bmws course of action? Scott will just make fun of us and continue to make racist posts on bmws behalf. Can a company be any more tone deaf to its customers ?
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      04-03-2017, 05:56 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
Being an E92 owner, I have to say the new generation of BMWs do have really nice interiors. I guess its a matter of opinion but for me, they are much better looking than Mercedes or Lexus. Also the quality is top notch with great fit and finish. I have been driving a 430i for a month and its been great so far. I do agree with you about the steering though, its very vague and I would hope BMW fixes this with the newer electronic units. The gearbox is fantastic thought, 8 speed ZF is super quick in the 430i.
I'm not saying the current crop of BMWs have bad or even sub-par interiors, they just didn't push the buck forward enough compared to what Audi and especially Merc have been doing. The design theme has been too evolutionary and it bores people out. Rumors of why the 7er has sold slowly have been traced back to internal blame on the ho-hum exterior and interior design. Check out the new Lexus LS' interior....now that is both fancy and very inspired. It looks like a special place to be.

The G11's interior? Nice but been there done that, the material quality is right up there with the S-class, but its "meh" design just doesn't provide that special feeling of its competitors.
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      04-03-2017, 06:03 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
The irony is that GM's present management learned from the errors of their predecessors. They win more quality awards today than BMW. They invented Magnetic damping technology. They invented (in collaboration with Ford) the 10 sp auto gearbox with faster gear shifts than PDK. They sell very high-output naturally aspirated motors. They build purpose built cars for enthusiasts as well as high-utility value vehicles for families. They test four door sedans on race tracks and at the Ring. The new Camaro (Camaro!) can arguably drop anything made in Germany short of a 918.

GM was the poster child for arrogance in the pursuit of short-term quarterly results. As a result the brand was severely punished by two generations of buyers. When I think of BMW today it reminds me of the bad old GM.
Well GM has certainly improved, but as somebody who grew up in SE MI with family and friends who worked for the Big 3 I have a huge amount of disdain and distrust for GM. Their management still makes short-sighted and poor decisions; and most of their cars, while not truly "bad" like they once were, still leave much to be desired.

The Cadillac division, for example, is really struggling. The ATS and CTS are two of the slowest selling cars in America (~140 days on dealer lots). They didn't get anything right about those cars save for the chassis tuning, which journalists get a boner from but actual customers will overlook when they get frustrated by the infotainment system or cheap bits in the interior.

Buick is only surviving due to its presence in the Asian market. It's an afterthought in the States for consumers. The Verano and Regal flopped, the Cascada is a decade-old design that only sells to fleets, and the new LaCrosse has received a very lukewarm reception from the press and its sales show for it.

GMC? Don't even get me started. They're just rebadged Chevys. The brand only exists due to America's obsession with trucks and SUVs. A recent article from last week highlighted how GM's original plans for the new Equinox were so bad that they were scrapped. The previous gen Malibu, which came out just 4-5 yrs ago, was a disaster with the press. And boy can I not stand their marketing dept. (making fun of tech Ford has in their cars which they themselves will have eventually, "real people not actors" bs, etc.).

GM is still a mismanaged company relative to the best from Japan and even VW (despite their emissions scandal). But yes, BMW is showing a lot of old school GM arrogance and complacency. Eventually it'll come back and bite them, probably once their core have abandoned everything the brand has to offer save for the ///M cars and likes of the Grand Coupes and M240.
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