G12 Turbo Blankets

[JellyStyle]

Anyone run the PTP Blankets on their G12?

I watched some videos and while BMW runs TURBOCHARGER BMW 870158 GARRETT MGT22, I watched this buy 2 of the Borg Warner - EFR B1 (Twin-Scroll) Turbo Blanket (FPRO35-094-01).

Maybe PTP didn't have a blanket specific for this MGT22 chassis that BMW runs etc.

Here is where he show's the Borgs Blankets at 14:30

I asked the guy in the video why he bought the Borg Warner vs. the Garrett blankets, said he had a dealer account and there wasn't a specific one.

Note, I run these blankets on my F02, and it cuts engine temps a TON, I used to not be able to touch anything under the hood, now that I run the blanket on the F02, its all just warm, big difference, BMW's heat shield is crap, I wish I had put these on when I first got all my cars.

Anyone else have any experience with G12 turbo blankets? Im going to guess not, as this forum is pretty light on any healthy mods to help the car run better but i still wanted to ask.

I have an email off to PTP to see what they have to make this fit the MGT22, or if the Borg Warner-designed blanket fits well.

This is all they carry for Garrett at the moment: https://www.ptpturboblankets.com/collections/garrett although I plan to change that.

[Raimo5]

Originally Posted by JellyStyle

Anyone else have any experience with G12 turbo blankets? Im going to guess not, as this forum is pretty light on any healthy mods to help the car run better but i still wanted to ask.

I'm not sure how healthy this mod is going to be. Trapping all that heat within the turbo, letting it degrade the oil and do other bad things.

There must be a reason why smart engineers and designers designed and built it as is. Do you have enough quality data to deem BMW design inadequate and have identified a roadworthy fix for the issue?

I understand that modding can be fun, but it can also be detrimental if done wrong.

I would recommend this video for watching, as in 5th minute, actual engineer explains these kinds of untested modifications.

[JellyStyle]

Originally Posted by Raimo5

I'm not sure how healthy this mod is going to be. Trapping all that heat within the turbo, letting it degrade the oil and do other bad things.

There must be a reason why smart engineers and designers designed and built it as is. Do you have enough quality data to deem BMW design inadequate and have identified a roadworthy fix for the issue?

I understand that modding can be fun, but it can also be detrimental if done wrong.

I would recommend this video for watching, as in 5th minute, actual engineer explains these kinds of untested modifications.

PTP has been doing N63 turbo blankets for about 10 years now, with a ton of data showing that it actually lowers the temps because the material absorbs the heat into the material, and then uses it as a radiator, it doesn't trap the heat. All their science is on their website, and its been proven why so many folks run it for almost every turbo setup out there.

[AllIn216]

Originally Posted by JellyStyle

PTP has been doing N63 turbo blankets for about 10 years now, with a ton of data showing that it actually lowers the temps because the material absorbs the heat into the material, and then uses it as a radiator, it doesn't trap the heat. All their science is on their website, and its been proven why so many folks run it for almost every turbo setup out there.

I'd try to keep in mind the website is trying to sell you something. It's probably important to note exactly what their data shows, which is that something generically labeled as "underhood" temperatures are lower. A blanket can't actually lower the amount of thermal energy produced, it still has to go somewhere, so these effectively increase the operating temperatures (or at the very least, the thermal loading) on the hot portion of the turbo by holding it in. The high temperature of the exhaust gases flowing through the hot side of the turbo remains the same, and the blanket decreases what the turbo casting can dissipate into its surrounding environment. With a blank slate, you likely could compensate for this through the design of the cooling circuit, but you still likely increased thermal load at the bearing, which is already hard on oil.


These engines are harder than average on oil, with pretty highly stressed cooling circuits as-is. Personally, I'd think twice about increasing the thermal load they must manage.

These kinds of wraps and blankets are great on custom builds and highly modified cars where you're trying to protect something from getting too hot because the cost of a rigid, stamped heatshield will never make sense for a 1-off.

[Raimo5]

Originally Posted by AllIn216

I'd try to keep in mind the website is trying to sell you something. It's probably important to note exactly what their data shows, which is that something generically labeled as "underhood" temperatures are lower. A blanket can't actually lower the amount of thermal energy produced, it still has to go somewhere, so these effectively increase the operating temperatures (or at the very least, the thermal loading) on the hot portion of the turbo by holding it in. The high temperature of the exhaust gases flowing through the hot side of the turbo remains the same, and the blanket decreases what the turbo casting can dissipate into its surrounding environment. With a blank slate, you likely could compensate for this through the design of the cooling circuit, but you still likely increased thermal load at the bearing, which is already hard on oil.


These engines are harder than average on oil, with pretty highly stressed cooling circuits as-is. Personally, I'd think twice about increasing the thermal load they must manage.

These kinds of wraps and blankets are great on custom builds and highly modified cars where you're trying to protect something from getting too hot because the cost of a rigid, stamped heatshield will never make sense for a 1-off.

Very insightful and well composed post. Thank you for that.

I would like to further point out that thermal management is especially important in diesel vehicles. There, you have DPF bolted straight to turbo, and if that goes to regeneration, these things run at 700C degrees.

It wont be a big issue to stop your engine mid regen if things are stock, as engine management is designed to rapidly cool the engine bay and needed components. If one would tamper with convective capacities, trapping all that heat within those components for longer than design specification, then my educated guess would be that it's going to significantly impact service life of those components.

Dont take all that as me trying to discourage you from pursuing what you like. The last thing I want to do is diminish your passion. It's just that some things have deeper impact than what appears on the surface (no pun intended) and need to be given a careful and calculated consideration.

[JellyStyle]

Originally Posted by Raimo5

Very insightful and well composed post. Thank you for that.

I would like to further point out that thermal management is especially important in diesel vehicles. There, you have DPF bolted straight to turbo, and if that goes to regeneration, these things run at 700C degrees.

It wont be a big issue to stop your engine mid regen if things are stock, as engine management is designed to rapidly cool the engine bay and needed components. If one would tamper with convective capacities, trapping all that heat within those components for longer than design specification, then my educated guess would be that it's going to significantly impact service life of those components.

Dont take all that as me trying to discourage you from pursuing what you like. The last thing I want to do is diminish your passion. It's just that some things have deeper impact than what appears on the surface (no pun intended) and need to be given a careful and calculated consideration.

All good points but I have a history with the N63 and using these blankets on the other motors I have had for 10+ years. Time tells all truths, and if I can get an N63 to last longer than most without heat cycles, breaking plastic CCV lines, oil lines, rubber coolant lines and more, we'll to each's own. Im a pretty educated guy and didn't expect to have a debate about this but the material is not designed to trap heat, it actually is a radiator to pull the heat out of the surface it is over, not reflect it like a fire suit or foil.

If you look at the science of this and what PTP has done to prove this, plus the fact that they have so many people behind them on all types of turbos, if there was a sign that their blankets ruined Turbo's, I am sure you would see posts or comments or information out there, and I have seen none, nor have I had a failure on anything I have used them for either.

This is just a topic of agree to disagree because I have worked with and have 3 types of N63 motors, so we know our way around where, why and how it fails and how to prevent it. You'll see that once I show some of my builds..

[AFLRO]

Following.

I have emailed them to ask if their N63 blanket will fit my N63B44T3 engine (2020 750i xDrive), but haven’t heard anything back.

I agree that the temperatures under the hood are excessive (no thermal engineer by any means). I can’t even touch the top plastic engine cover in some spots. No way those temps are good for plastics/rubber in long term.

[JellyStyle]

Originally Posted by AFLRO

Following.

I have emailed them to ask if their N63 blanket will fit my N63B44T3 engine (2020 750i xDrive), but haven’t heard anything back.

I agree that the temperatures under the hood are excessive (no thermal engineer by any means). I can’t even touch the top plastic engine cover in some spots. No way those temps are good for plastics/rubber in long term.

They do not, I am getting it N63TU3) - same motor you have, made with the templates, once they are done, they will posit it online. I just got an email from them,I am sending them parts and measurements to get it made to fit, OEM style. I am also a dealer, so I can get it to you for a better price too.

[AFLRO]

Originally Posted by JellyStyle

They do not, I am getting it N63TU3) - same motor you have, made with the templates, once they are done, they will posit it online. I just got an email from them,I am sending them parts and measurements to get it made to fit, OEM style. I am also a dealer, so I can get it to you for a better price too.

Awesome! I’m interested in purchasing as soon as it’s available.

[JellyStyle]

Just pm me and I’ll get you the wholesale price.

[Raimo5]

Originally Posted by JellyStyle

Im a pretty educated guy and didn't expect to have a debate about this but the material is not designed to trap heat, it actually is a radiator to pull the heat out of the surface it is over, not reflect it like a fire suit or foil.

If not for a healthy and constructive arguments, then what purpose does this thread serve?

And it is not a radiator. It literally is designed to trap heat within the turbine casing. It fits loosely around the turbine casing, leaving air pockets everywhere and is made of poor heat conductive material. If your goal was to reduce under the hood temperatures, then that would imply that you need a remote fin stack somewhere to dissipate that heat, or you engine bay would get even hotter, if it was a radiator or a heat sink. All the material in their website support that claim.

Originally Posted by JellyStyle

If you look at the science of this and what PTP has done to prove this, plus the fact that they have so many people behind them on all types of turbos, if there was a sign that their blankets ruined Turbo's, I am sure you would see posts or comments or information out there, and I have seen none, nor have I had a failure on anything I have used them for either

I looked at the study posted in their website, conducted by University of Texas. This was a single study, performed on just one engine design. Extrapolating that data across the board would be wildly erroneous. Not to mention that their tests were done in ambient air test cell, not a hot engine bay environment, which accounts for significant temperature deltas and thus convective losses. Also, they failed to model the internal temperatures, and only relied on oil outlet temperature, which is not an accurate indicator without a temperature model. Inlet-outlet temperature differences are hugely affected by flow rates and mediums capacity to transfer heat at those specific rates. Components themselves can be considerably hotter.

To be honest, I haven't seen many turbo failure analysis at all where failure modes have been precisely attributed. So lack of statistical analysis is not a confirmation of any kind.

Originally Posted by JellyStyle

This is just a topic of agree to disagree

I'm not here to disagree with people or shut down their ideas. My goal is to look at these things from all angles; be it either good or bad. I'd like people to make up their own mind based on highest quality data available for application. Unfortunately, I see a glaring lack of (application specific) data to support the claims made.

[JellyStyle]

Thanks for the feedback, after my 10 years of working with them on the N63 (I have 3 of these motors and generations), I can attest to what I have seen and done.

Maybe there is no ROI for anyone to post all their data out there to increase their sales, merely because customers with the data buy for themselves and use for themselves and it seems that PTP has the reputation that I'm sure you can call them and ask for 1000 references if need be..

I just don't think they care to post all the data that you want, for as much data there is about the earth being round, there are people out there that say its flat, just not worth the time.

I too just say, if you don't believe the data, don't trust it, just don't buy it.. Friend of mine used to always say that, my first time stealing that quote.

[JellyStyle]

I am working on a group buy if anyone is interested, I got a wholesale account, so we can do a bulk buy and ship out to everyone.
So far its me and 1 other person, we need to get to 5.
Anyone? If not, no big deal.. Just an offer..

If we can get to 8 people, we can get Tier 2

MSRP Tier 1 wholesale Tier 2
$374.95 $299.96 $281.21

[AllIn216]

I'd like to be clear that I'm not talking bad about PTP; the company or their product. They make a great product and have a place in the market, no doubt.

I'm just trying to share what I know, not argue. Underhood and underbody thermal management is quite literally my business, designing and manufacturing components direct for OEMs. So I'm quite familiar with the raw materials these turbo blankets (woven basalt and kaowool). I have them in my plants and lab, and even samples in my office.

These materials are well known to be excellent high temperature insulators, and as such a blanket made of them is not going to act as a radiator pulling heat from the source. That's just not how they work, and I don't see PTP making that claim on their website.

Holding that heat in on the hot side of the turbo is actually why they work to increase performance. It lowers temps on the intake ("cool") side, and allows the turbo to achieve and maintain operating temperature faster, however that equilibrium of normal operating temperature may be higher than otherwise without the blanket, if there isn't adequate cooling capacity like I was mentioning earlier. If there's an excess of cooling capacity, it may have no meaningful impact on longevity at all!

JellyStyle The intent of my first reply about these blankets was to share knowledge to help make an informed decision; remembering what were important considerations of turbo and powertrain engineers I've personally worked with in the past. It sounds like you are comfortable in making the decision that is right for you, which is great!

[JellyStyle]

We all can decide on the trade-offs. Yes, and being informed is great for all, but most people look to save money, time, hassle and effort, we are a convenience-based specifies.

Either change more oil or change every hose, rubber, or gasket in your engine bay or sell the car after 8 years from purchase.

I thnk facts defend that if you leave an N63 alone, it will destroy itself with heat cycles; I will take my method of changing the oil more and possibly rebuilding a turbo ten years out, over the cost and labor hassle of replacing everything under the hood petroleum-based.

I get your points, but for those who want to save replacing everything under the hood, then they can join in on the turbo blanket group guy. Otherwise, they can keep dumping money into their motor to keep it on its normal destructive path.

[JellyStyle]

Anyone want a turbo blanket I had made from PTP ?
I had it fitted for the G12, I had two made.
First $250 gets it, i can post pics, its the same as this but i had the O2 Sensors moved to the correct positions and the brass gromets not installed since they are not used on the G12.

https://www.ptpturboblankets.com/col...0i-650i-750i-1

I also have a kercoat turbo cover for sale, had this also made in 2s but my Alpina has a white version on it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/156173255519

I also have an Alpina wheel if anyone wants it, with airbag too, make an offer, or it will sell, airbag alone is worth it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155997819642