The end of an era? Nurburgring bans timed lap records

[lowbudgethero]

Originally Posted by Boss330

On the subject of measures after accidents on a race track. The most common measure is to reduce speed via chicanes or a different track layout. Lots of race tracks have changed layouten over the years after incidents or other safety causes. One of the longest and fastest straights on a race track, the Mulsanne straight at Le Mans, got a chicane many years ago in order to reduce speed.

And let's not forget that some major accidents in F1 at the ring stopped F1 racing there. Niki Lauda's accident for instance. So this isn't exactly a new situation for the Nordschleife...

As a short term immediate measure Nurburgring has implemented speed limits. The long term solution might be changing the track layout since speeds now are so much higher than what the track was designed for. So do we want a new track layout at these places or a speed limit? Most likely neither... But we might end up with one or the other...

I'm just glad they haven't made a rushed decision to change the track layout before the accident has been thouroghly investigated. Much better a temporary speed limit!

I think I'd prefer a modified track layout like a kink to slow speeds, or better yet track improvement to allow for higher speeds safely

[MightyMouseTech]

Just take them to Pikes Peak.

[hellrotm]

Good, tired of Ring time comparison anyways.

If they bring it back. There needs to be some governing body, so thar some these so-called "legit" times can actually be verified.

[4er_Meister]

Originally Posted by TazOjla

I don't think it's a wise move on behalf of the Nurburgring's management team to ban us from setting lap times. Many people have died on the 'ring and I think it's pretty stupid to set a speed limit on a racetrack. I think we can all agree that when we go to a racetrack we understand the danger and consequences of our actions and it would've been better to have stopped spectators from standing in "high risk" area's.

Anyway I think we can get a good idea of performance from the 0-62 times and top speed figures that manufactures provide us with but we all know these aren't always accurate. All these numbers really do is supply us with bragging rights. If the Nurburgring doesn't let us have comparable lap times, then as petrol heads we'll move on (To another track). I can say though that it was always fun finding out about manufactures such as McLaren, Porsche, Ferrari etc spending millions in the quest to shave off milliseconds just to out do each-other.

Can't agree with you more!!! It's a great track! That's very American of them to ban lap times because of an incident.. This is what people go there for!

[phoenixbmwlife]

They should focus on doing things to make spectators safer, not stop the ring from fast lap times and sanction speed limit zones.

Their decision shows a disconnect to a solution that both sides can approve of and a focus only on the fear of the problem.

[Hoopumpers]

This was posted by a fellow driver on rennlist, and I thought it was well stated. So I am plagiarizing and pasting here:

"I race and do so competently; I drive at speed on track probably an average of 5 hours per month, maybe more, since I also am lucky to be a member of MSR.

The 'Ring is an incredibly dangerous track and frightened me more than any place I have ever been. It's like the Kink at Road America for 21 km. The speeds are huge, runoff almost nonexistent, and it's very bumpy.

The pace of modern street cars is starting to compare with the F1 cars of years past and Stewart and Lauda are not incompetent pussies; they and others thought the 'Ring is a terrible race track.

While I loved driving there, I don't think I'd be willing to run at a qualifying pace, especially not in a street car without a full cage and proper safety gear. The GTR that went into spectators at Flugplatz is yet another dimension of danger.

It is inviting death or serious injury to the test drivers of street cars to have them motivated to run "record" speeds. In addition to the intrinsic danger of the track, add in uncertain surface conditions due to rain, debris, or dew and I am frankly surprised no one has been killed so far. On my first trip to the 'Ring there were 2 fatalities in 7 days.

On the other hand, Spa was fantastic! Huge speeds, but proper runoff and so I was able to run 10/10s there and went off in Eau Rouge and Pouhon both with no drama at all, given the room and off-track pavement.

While nostalgia for the 'Ring may be strong, there are plenty of other tracks to provide comparison lap times and frankly I'd rather see a track where I could also drive 10/10s used as a yardstick, in the hopes that I could see how I stack up. I'll never do that at the 'Ring.

Finally, if lap time records are so important, how do you explain the ever-growing popularity of the Tail of the Dragon?

I'll probably go back to the 'Ring, but won't worry at all about lap times and it is a bit of a relief to think no one else is allowed to, either. It will remain an epic, must-drive for any gearhead."

[raysspl]

It'll make a comeback soon enough

[ShocknAwe]

Good riddance.

[eMvy]

The decision stems from the death of one spectator? "Management", aka worthless suits would not have made such a decision if it wasn't in the pure interest of profit/savings.

The biggest risk is not taking one.

[Z K]

Top Gear track! It's already used as a yard stick to measure most of the world's fastest sports cars.

[krx927]

In reality it is not so bad at least for stock cars. As an example in my E90 M3:

Hocheichen to Flugplatz - 797m - 200km/h - on this section you perhaps just touch 200 kmh so no big deal
To Schwedenkreuz - 1120m - 250km/h - you do not achieve the speed limit on this section
Döttinger Höhe - 2190m - 250km/h - the car is limited to 250kmh anyway (in reality mine goes to 258) so again no big deal

Of course it would be totally different in GT3 for example...

[turbo8765]

VIR Lightning Lap.... The New Standard!!

[Labeef]

Originally Posted by Andrew115

Block spectators from the areas that can't be protected - reinforce barriers in trouble areas and educate spectators of the risk that are taking then open it up to lap times. Hate to see this get nannyfied.

Agreed.

This will kill the legendary status of the Ring. Didn't they just get bought and saved from bankruptcy... Not that you can't test or develop any future products, but it the ring lap time was a respect industry benchmark for performance. I don't see any other track offering as much dynamic topography.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Z K

Top Gear track! It's already used as a yard stick to measure most of the world's fastest sports cars.

Hope you are joking.

[ake]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

There is more autobahn with speed limits than without.

I don't know where you got that information from, but apparently this is not true. Only about 40% of the Autobahn currently has a permanent or temporary speed limit (that includes construction zones). All the other areas don't have a speed limit.

Still I believe that deciding on a speed limit for the Ring has been a well thought through decision. It might not be permanent, but the safest way to go forward short term.

I've been on the Ring last year - and believe me, I've been on it quite fast (led by an instructor, following his instructions fully). I've been visiting the Ring a couple of times throughout my life and it is different from any other race track you can imagine (for those who haven't been there themselves). There is no way you could secure the whole track, possibly not even just the risky sections.
Also, taking away the options to watch would have the same impact on the racetrack as putting up speed limits or re-defining the layout.

I'm sure they will come up with the best approach to keep the myth and allow us Junkies to still get our thrills.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Hope you are joking.

He is not.

Where is the Stig when you need him ?!?

[Tommy_hf]

No biggie, the speed limits aren't what really limits your laptimes on the ring, especially during touris. On track days and record attempts it's a different story. Flugplatz max 200 is plenty, above 180 km/h you do get airborne just before entry of the double right hander. Schweden-X max 250, is plenty for anything under 400 hp.
Dottinger Hohe 250, really, if you get past the gantry you're already starting to back off to get either off the track or to the gates for another lap of fun. Your car will thank you for not trying to get above it.

[Tomtomdrive]

YES!! with speed limits, my M3 is now just as fast as a Veyron!!!! If you don't believe me, let's duke it out at the track

Attach that camera to your Genny and come along, we'll be right there with ya.

[Jay-K]

oh dear

[Boss330]

Latest update and end of speed limits and restrictions by 2016:

http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/news/a...dschleife.html

[DC-T]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Latest update and end of speed limits and restrictions by 2016:

http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/news/a...dschleife.html

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