Thoughts on "Brexit"

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Eriphill

You can be as snotty and self righteous about it as you want, but that doesn't make it true. You also happen to be ignorant of the bigger picture, but oh well that's your mother's problem not mine.

Lol someone's butt hurt over a mere opinion.

Some are just too simple to be able to respectfully disagree these days. At least my opinion is an educated one and at least one of us understands what "irony" actually is.

[John 070]

My thoughts are my C and JPM purchases on Mon. were a good move.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Um no. That's a PC notion. Not wanting to be forced to grant citizenship to people who hate you, who won't assimilate, who create areas where their laws and not British law applies, who are unskilled, who want to change your country to be like their country, etc etc etc. That's stupidity. Every country should have the right to protect its borders and admit who they want. If a foreign government wants to allow anyone into their country, why should your country be forced to admit them too, and at the same time forced not to admit others worthy of citizenship like Americans, Australians, indians, etc. Now England can admit each individual based on their individual merit. I fail to see how that's racist. That was a stupid and ignorant argument from the left trying to force PC thought on everyone which is also stupid. PC is fine as long as it is preceded but intelligence. It isn't here.

I suppose I should have put /end sarcasm at the end of my post...

[Fundguy1]

David70, our manufacturing jobs are being "outsourced" to Mexico because of one reason, cost. Companies are moving their production, which you call outsourcing, to mexico, because
1 wages are super low
2 US corporate taxes are thx to obama the highest in the wored
3 regulations have gotten out of control. The cost for meeting them, workplace, power plant emissions raising the cost of electricity, etc.

These and other reasons are why the average family is suffering. The left says retrain everyone. How do you retrain a 45 yr old coal miner and what job within 10p miles are you training him for? Japan woke the sleeping giant when it attacked us. We were a manufacturing powerhouse. We built 6 liberty ships and a destroyer each day. Even singer sewing machines built guns. Now that manufacturing is in Mexico, China, and other places around the globe. If we get into a war, what are we going to fight with? Room service?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

David70, our manufacturing jobs are being "outsourced" to Mexico because of one reason, cost. Companies are moving their production, which you call outsourcing, to mexico, because
1 wages are super low
2 US corporate taxes are thx to obama the highest in the wored
3 regulations have gotten out of control. The cost for meeting them, workplace, power plant emissions raising the cost of electricity, etc.

Ah yes, before Obama corporate taxes were the lowest.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/mikep...4-1200x606.jpg

Besides, after all of the deductions, the effective corporate tax rate is on par with most other first world countries. As a company or individual if you're paying the full marginal tax rate, you should fire your accountant immediately.

The only real reason they're outsourced is because there's no point in paying someone minimum wage or more and offering them full benefits to do such a simple task, any other reason is BS IMO.

Force them to move production here, companies would quickly figure out a way to replace them with robots, something they're starting to do anyway.

These people could just as easily work as a plumber, electrician, mechanic, welder, etc and make much more money, not as susceptible to having illegals doing the work and not going to be replaced by robots anytime soon.

[Fundguy1]

NAFTA and bad trade deals with China and others enabled the lower wage jobs to take over the manufacturing. Corporate tax breaks are not unique to the US and not uniform. They've been given out to select groups for votes. The corporate tax rate is now the highest under obama. It wasn't prior to him taking office. Other countries wised up and lowered theirs to attract tax paying companies and workers instead of shipping them out. Lower the tax rates, set up fair trade deals, get rid of the tax breaks, watch jobs flood back.

[fecurtis]

I see Boris doesn't want to run to be PM despite leading the whole Leave campaign, I could see why he would want to run this whole Leave campaign but not actually be responsible for seeing it through.

It's pretty obvious he was hoping for a close vote to use as political leverage but didn't actually think it'd go through or that he lost support that he thought he had. Can't write better shit than that. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

David70, our manufacturing jobs are being "outsourced" to Mexico because of one reason, cost. Companies are moving their production, which you call outsourcing, to mexico, because
1 wages are super low
2 US corporate taxes are thx to obama the highest in the wored
3 regulations have gotten out of control. The cost for meeting them, workplace, power plant emissions raising the cost of electricity, etc.

These and other reasons are why the average family is suffering. The left says retrain everyone. How do you retrain a 45 yr old coal miner and what job within 10p miles are you training him for? Japan woke the sleeping giant when it attacked us. We were a manufacturing powerhouse. We built 6 liberty ships and a destroyer each day. Even singer sewing machines built guns. Now that manufacturing is in Mexico, China, and other places around the globe. If we get into a war, what are we going to fight with? Room service?

I work for a manufacturing company, we have no problem finding workers with no skills (but of course they can't make a good living) but finding people that can read a tape measure, add two fractions, weld, run a CNC, etc. are still difficult and require us to pay more (supply and demand). None of these jobs are college degree jobs but require a high school degree (not just the piece of paper) and trade schools would help him a lot (once we have to train the worker the benefit he brings gets smaller).

The 45 year old coal minor (your example but really poor as we aren't outsourcing his job to other countries) can be retrained to do these things, no different that the guy that used to plow his field with his ox. This worker may need to move out of the area he currently lives which most won't do.

Reality is the worker here is competing with the worker in Mexico, if the U.S. worker can't do anything better, just requires more money to work, he will have a problem. Stopping trade to preserve his job will help him but will sink us deeper into a hole because we are no longer able to compete on the worldwide stage. Note the USSR and their car industry and general economy before it collapsed, no trade, poor products, save the jobs, until the whole thing falls apart. They didn't find areas that they could make money because they didn't need to.

Regulations are some of the problem and if we didn't have to worry about the air the person welding was breathing, him getting hurt or killed the manufacturing cost would go down but at the time dead/sick/injured workers would increase. I have a hard time with the "we should get rid of the regulations" unless you have exact ones you think should be cut. Kind of like "Make America Great" without the details, sounds good but is meaningless.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Corporate tax breaks are not unique to the US and not uniform. They've been given out to select groups for votes.

No, they're extremely uniform. It's at the local tax level where various breaks are given in exchange for hiring people in that locale.

[Fundguy1]

Trade school needs to improve. Trade agreements need to improve. And the coal miner was regulated out of business. As usual the left says regulations etc are all or nothing propositions. A balance and common sense are needed. The coal miner for example. Clean coal plants are the same for emissions as any other, but they aren't pc and don't get permits. The epa raised emissions regulations so that power plants went from 98% clean emissions to 98.4% thus increased their costs by 10% which is on your power bill. And us power plant acount for an insignificant amount of worldwide emissions. Economically however it was a huge burden on American companies. This is the stuff that needs fixing.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

No, they're extremely uniform. It's at the local tax level where various breaks are given in exchange for hiring people in that locale.

Not even remotely close to uniform if you compare big business to small business, particularly Schedule C businesses.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Not even remotely close to uniform if you compare big business to small business, particularly Schedule C businesses.

Ok fair point, uniform for all big businesses and small businesses unless that's wrong as well.

What I'm trying to get at is that one large corporation doesn't follow a completely different set of tax regulation than another large corporation and so on.

[Fundguy1]

Yes. They all use the same failed regulations that favor mostly large corporations and special interests. Not a fait playing field and rigged against small businesses and manufacturing and for large corporations and others that make large campaign donations and pay $750,000 for a speech.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Trade school needs to improve. Trade agreements need to improve. And the coal miner was regulated out of business. As usual the left says regulations etc are all or nothing propositions. A balance and common sense are needed. The coal miner for example. Clean coal plants are the same for emissions as any other, but they aren't pc and don't get permits. The epa raised emissions regulations so that power plants went from 98% clean emissions to 98.4% thus increased their costs by 10% which is on your power bill. And us power plant acount for an insignificant amount of worldwide emissions. Economically however it was a huge burden on American companies. This is the stuff that needs fixing.

I agree on the trade schools and a balance on regulations but coal mining has nothing to do with free trade or Brexit.

[Fundguy1]

Nope. It shifted to nafta and the US. And why we need to exit nafta like Brits did eu.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Ok fair point, uniform for all big businesses and small businesses unless that's wrong as well.

What I'm trying to get at is that one large corporation doesn't follow a completely different set of tax regulation than another large corporation and so on.

I still think this is over-simplification of the tax code, which has tax credits that vary by industry and complexities related to international profits among other things. Yes, there is one tax code, but it complex and has different implications to different companies. That's why you see a wide range of effective tax rates and some companies going through inversion transactions. It is not one-size-fits-all, which is why there are tax advisors to help corporations minimize their tax burden for their business. If it was one-size-fits-all, there wouldn't be much need for tax advisors since once an optimal structure was identified it could be copied by others. It just doesn't work that way at all, even in large corporations.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

I still think this is over-simplification of the tax code, which has tax credits that vary by industry and complexities related to international profits among other things. Yes, there is one tax code, but it complex and has different implications to different companies. That's why you see a wide range of effective tax rates and some companies going through inversion transactions. It is not one-size-fits-all, which is why there are tax advisors to help corporations minimize their tax burden for their business. If it was one-size-fits-all, there wouldn't be much need for tax advisors since once an optimal structure was identified it could be copied by others. It just doesn't work that way at all, even in large corporations.

But I could, more or less, say the same thing about personal income tax. Warren Buffets taxes are open to far more tax deductions and rules than the single person who rents and has no kids who makes $50k/year working a single job in one state.

It's a uniform set of rules but which rules apply to you vary significantly based on your situation but in either case, chances are that your effective rate will be lower than the marginal rate. My overall point is that it can't be altered for political gain whereas local taxes can (i.e. property tax waived for x number of years if you build a plant in Michigan vs. location y).

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by supernoob

Nafta... Vancouver grows an enormous quantity of cranberries. Nafta says Canada is not allowed to make cranberry juice because of nafta. Canada MUST sell its cranberries to the USA in order for them to make juice to import back to Canada for consumption.... Because that's nafta. That's how free trade works.

Canada can make cranberry jam. That's cool.

Punchline though is that because of free trade a grower cannot make juice from its crop because of free trade. Lol.

Holy shit is that true?

[goj]

Originally Posted by supernoob

Nafta... Vancouver grows an enormous quantity of cranberries. Nafta says Canada is not allowed to make cranberry juice because of nafta. Canada MUST sell its cranberries to the USA in order for them to make juice to import back to Canada for consumption.... Because that's nafta. That's how free trade works.

Canada can make cranberry jam. That's cool.

Punchline though is that because of free trade a grower cannot make juice from its crop because of free trade. Lol.

This is crazy! Is that really true? Interesting

[TheHouseWon]

Maybe our juice factories are more efficient haha

[Fundguy1]

Nafta sucks for everyone except mexico.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by supernoob

Nafta... Vancouver grows an enormous quantity of cranberries. Nafta says Canada is not allowed to make cranberry juice because of nafta. Canada MUST sell its cranberries to the USA in order for them to make juice to import back to Canada for consumption.... Because that's nafta. That's how free trade works.

Canada can make cranberry jam. That's cool.

Punchline though is that because of free trade a grower cannot make juice from its crop because of free trade. Lol.

Lol, welcome to trade agreements...

It's almost like suing to prove a point... the lawyers got richer, the overall system costs went up and in effect no one benefited... but it sure as hell made someone feel good.