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      02-03-2015, 07:46 AM   #1
954Stealth
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Hockenheim gave up. No F1 race in Germany. It has happened.

The news keeps breaking and no one's fixing it!

To get you up to speed, here's the conversation thus far and then the updates:

and then .... what do you think? Do you believe there is a chance it will be saved? Will F1 race in Germany this year? What will the fate of the 'Ring be?


"Under the terms of the long-standing race share agreement between Germany’s two F1 venues, the Nurburging had been scheduled to return as the host of this year’s event after Hockeheim hosted the 2014 race. However, Ecclestone revealed last week that the race was set to stay at Hockenheim for this year as at the Nurburgring “there’s nobody there”."

Although the F1 supremo did reveal he was meeting with the new owners of the Nurburgring in London later on Wednesday – raising the prospect that their 2015 hopes may not yet be over after all – he conceded that there was a chance that the German race might not take place altogether this year.

He then joked: “But we’ve got one, it’s called Austria.”

“We would do everything to stop them fading away, but in the end the only reason the race won’t happen is because they can’t afford to run the race,” he added.

“Honestly I don’t know [why the event is struggling], it surprises me. Maybe it’s a little bit that the German people were very used to and supported Michael and miss Michael when he wasn’t racing any longer," he added.
-- SkySports.com

***************************

All I can say is SAVE THE RING!! Boo to the Sozialdemokratische Politik fur Rheinland-Pfalz and boo to Capricorn and boo to Georg Sieler and Bernie for not being able to simply changing the dates on the current contract and removing the Nurburgring/Hockenheim alternations piece. Boo to the fans for Hockenheim only attracting 52,000 spectators to the grand prix last year, which means the circuit is also struggling to make ends meet, hence meet financially contract obligations with Bernie.

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Originally Posted by 954Stealth View Post
Bernie is saying now that Germany's chances of staying on the 2015 calendar are under 50 percent!

Nurburgring was on the calender and Hockenheim has yet to agree to a contract. So what happened with Nurburgring, you ask?

tl;dr: Capricorn's offices were raided last week by police and prosecutors, alleging fraud and other allegations against Dr. Robertino Wild and Adam Osieka.
Who are they? Here's some background:
Well, The track was having massive financial difficulties until the Nürburgring racetrack in Germany was sold to German automotive and aerospace technology conglomerate, Capricorn Group - led by Dr. Robertino Wild, the owner of Capricorn, and Adam Osieka, who runs GetSpeed, a Nurburgring-based automotive workshop and tuning company - for a figure in excess of €100m (£83m). As part of its bid, the German firm, which manufactures specialist racing car components, agreed to invest another €25 million (US$34.7 million) to develop the racetrack.
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
^^an interesting turn of events for the 'Ring horror story.

Keep us updated Stealth.
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Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
Do you have any insight on the investigation going on against the Capricorn group? Allegedly they were raided by the Rhineland Pfalz Govt. last week and are under investigation for fraud.

Also what sucks worse for the Nurburgring is the "dynamic pricing" they plan to unveil beginning this May for the tourist rides. VLN, RCN, 24Hour race are confirmed as well as DTM but some are still in the air.
Quote:
The office was raided on suspicion of credit fraud. It is about the double security for the art collection owned by Wild. A total of five objects at the Nürburgring in Koblenz and Dusseldorf were searched.

They bought Nurburgring as I outlined in a previous post. There was supposed to be a second payment but it was delayed until October of 2014 from the original July date. As equity and security against the loan, Wild put up his own art collection. The problem was that this was already handed over to another creditor (allegedly).

The Head Attorney Harald Kruse stressed that the matter was solely about the double security for the art collection and not at the Nürburgring sales process as a whole.

----and here's some updates ---
This is pretty major so it deserves its' own thread



Germany may miss out on hosting Formula One race in 2015
Germany looks unlikely to host a Formula One Grand Prix this year according to the sport's boss, Bernie Ecclestone. The main reasons are a lack of fans and financing issues. But there is still hope, Ecclestone says.

Bernie Ecclestone has called into question whether Germany will host a Formula One race this coming F1 season, following questioning by German media.

Speaking to Germany's "Bild" newspaper on Tuesday, Ecclestone said, "It doesn't look good, but we are trying to rescue it."

On Monday, Ecclestone had told German newspaper "Rhein Zeitung" that no F1 race would be hosted in Germany in 2015 because "the visitor numbers were so poor in recent years that it is not economically viable."

He also confirmed a fax had been sent to the paper in response to a query but denied the matter had been decided.

"Who knows? There are two circuits there. Wait and see," the 84-year-old told news agency Reuters. "It's not looking good. You can say that it (the race) looks unlikely."


F1's boss Bernie Ecclestone has high-level contacts in both politics and business
Currently, no deal has been signed with either Hockenheim or Nürburgring, the two German circuits currently sharing the annual grand prix.

This year's race was due to be held at the Nürburgring in the country's Eifel region on July 19 under an alternation agreement that saw Hockenheim host it last season. This staggered arrangement has been in place for years, beause both circuits say they cannot afford the losses incurred by hosting the race every year. Race organizers - either the circuits, national governments, or a mixture of both - pay Ecclestone's Formula One empire millions each year to host a grand prix; their only revenue source to recoup this money are the tickets sold to fans, which in turn has pushed prices well above other comparable events.

German F1 organizers have struggled with fan numbers for years. Only 45,000 turned out on race day at the Nürburgring in 2013, the season after Michael Schumacher retired.Last year in Hockenheim, 52,000 fans were on hand on the Sunday race day.That compares to some 120,000 for the British Grand Prix at Silverstone - perenially the best attended race on the calendar - and the 80,000 who turned up on race day for F1's return to Austria this season.

With the Formula One season starting in Australia next month, Ecclestone indicated Germany had only a couple of weeks to do a deal and stay on the 19-race calendar. Should the race actually be cancelled, it would be the first time that Germany would miss out on hosting a round in the Formula One season since 1960.

al/apc (dpa, Reuters)

************************************************

and another source:
The 84-year-old Briton was speaking after Germany's Rhein Zeitung newspaper quoted him as saying there would be no race because "the visitor numbers were so poor in recent years that it is not economically viable."

Ecclestone confirmed a fax had been sent to the paper in response to a query but denied the matter had been decided.

"Who knows? There are two places (circuits) there. Wait and see," he said.

"It's not looking good...you can say that it (the race) looks unlikely but we are trying to rescue it. I don't want to lose it, for sure. We are trying our best."

************************************************** ***********





Here's a previous threads on the same subject matter:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079686
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      02-03-2015, 10:23 AM   #2
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Bernie Ecclestone hopes German Grand Prix decision will be made by weekend
02/03/15, The Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...x-formula-one?

• Low attendances have put future of July F1 event in jeopardy
• ‘We’re trying to rescue it but I can’t guarantee we will,’ says Ecclestone

"The German Grand Prix is once again fighting for survival, with Formula One’s chief executive Bernie Ecclestone declaring that a decision on this year’s event in July will be made by the weekend."

and

"Since 2007, the venue for the German GP has alternated between Hockenheim and the Nürburgring. According to Ecclestone it is likely to remain at the former having been held there last year but a final deal with the venue has yet to be confirmed. He said: “If we do something it is looking like Hockenheim will probably be the most likely venue. The Nürburgring has just been sold again [in October] for the third time and a Russian guy [Viktor Kharitonin] has bought it.

“When everybody thinks of a Russian owner there is plenty of money, but I met him the other day and I don’t think he is enthusiastic for putting in the money. He would like the race, obviously, which is why he bought the bloody place.

“The bottom line is there is still a chance and we hope to know more by the weekend.”
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      02-03-2015, 12:39 PM   #3
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I should add that its because of the failed second payment that Viktor Charitonin and NR Holding AG were able to purchase their majority shares.

Still, the Wild scandal and the raid are a serious development.
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      02-03-2015, 03:39 PM   #4
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Yesterday evening, I heard on Antenne Bayern (Antenne.de) that there will be no F1 race in Germany this year. They talked about the problems that the new management of the 'Ring has. And also in that holding a race at Hockenheim hasn't been profitable for many years. So, Bernie has decided on no German F1 race this year.

Maybe Elsabor67 can add more to this story. He is my local F1 expert, besides 954Stealth
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      02-03-2015, 03:49 PM   #5
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From Deutsche Welle

Formula One world champion, Germany's Sebastian Vettel, looks set to race on the Eifel region circuit in western Germany, instead of Germany's Hockenheim track to the south this July, according to two newspapers, the Rhein Zeitung and Allgemeine Zeitung of Mainz.

Government sources in Mainz, the regional capital of Rhineland Palatinate state, also spoke of "good news" after months of wrangling between the circuit's insolvency administrator and former track-leasing proprietors.

The Rhein-Zeiting (RZ) based in Koblenz said Formula-One chief Bernie Ecclestone and "ring" administrator Karl-Josef Schmidt had reached an agreement in Cologne late Wednesday to go ahead with the race on July 7 - despite lingering insolvency proceedings.

Details would be announced at a press conference Thursday, the RZ added.
Mainz's Allgemeine Zeitung (AZ) said it understood that ticket sales would begin on Thursday.


Both newspapers said the agreement was finalized when two major German motoring organizations, the ADAC and AVD, resolved differences and agreed to share the race organization role - despite legal objections from the previous race track leaseholders.

Still unresolved was whether the race would be called the German Grand Prix or the European Grand Prix.
They said Rhineland Palatinate state had declined - contrary to past years - to contribute a sizeable subsidy for the 2013 race after controversy over a cost explosion for an amusement park at adjacent to Nürburgring's Formula One track in recent years.

The circuit's state-owned operating company had filed insolvency last July, causing embarrassment for the-then state premier Kurt Beck, a veteran Social Democrat.

His Social Democrat successor, state premier Malu Dreyer, who took office earlier this month, told the Mainz parliament on Wednesday that her cabinet was ready to learn from the past funding difficulties.
The Formula One season is due to start on March 17 with the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne and finish in Brazil in November.

ipj/av (AP, AFP, sid, dpa)
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      02-03-2015, 03:51 PM   #6
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So look for another announcement from Bernie this Thursday
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      02-03-2015, 03:56 PM   #7
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Exclamation Bernie Ecclestone's letter to the Rhein-Zeitung...

Just saw this....

Name:  F1 letter from Bernnie  full letter....jpg
Views: 2343
Size:  29.3 KB



Bernie Ecclestone's letter to the Rhein-Zeitung newspaper claims that a German Formula One Grand Prix even at the back-up venue of Hockenheim won't be "commercially viable" because "attendance has been so low for the past few years."


https://twitter.com/rheinzeitung/sta...607296/photo/1

and...

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/there-...ear-1683477243
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      02-03-2015, 03:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Just saw this....

Attachment 1152996



Bernie Ecclestone's letter to the Rhein-Zeitung newspaper claims that a German Formula One Grand Prix even at the back-up venue of Hockenheim won't be "commercially viable" because "attendance has been so low for the past few years."


https://twitter.com/rheinzeitung/sta...607296/photo/1

and...

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/there-...ear-1683477243
Oh wow.

I just found this quote from yesterday as well. Strange Bernie's sending out mixed messages apparently. The letter says "no way"; his conversation with the paper says there's still a glimmer of hope.

“It’s not looking good…you can say that it (the race) looks unlikely but we are trying to rescue it. I don’t want to lose it, for sure. We are trying our best,” Ecclestone told Reuters’ Alan Baldwin.

The other quote I mentioned a while ago indicates that the race will probably be moved to Austria should they not finalize with Hockenheim
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      02-03-2015, 04:23 PM   #9
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But there is already a race slated for Austria at the Red Bull Ring this year. The race is not viable here because few people would pay the 300-650 euros to be sitting in the grand stand and the event and track organizers are losing money every time they host a F1 GP.

Hell, DTM fills the stands every time they race in Hockenheim because it is affordable in the realm of less than 100 euros for the main seating.

Greed will kill F1 if they don't do something about it.
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      02-03-2015, 04:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67
But there is already a race slated for Austria at the Red Bull Ring this year. The race is not viable here because few people would pay the 300-650 euros to be sitting in the grand stand and the event and track organizers are losing money every time they host a F1 GP.

Hell, DTM fills the stands every time they race in Hockenheim because it is affordable in the realm of less than 100 euros for the main seating.

Greed will kill F1 if they don't do something about it.
Seriously. The prices for some of these tickets is outrageous.

So he faxed that letter? If that doesn't say Bernies behind the times, I don't know what does!
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      02-03-2015, 04:50 PM   #11
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Seriously. The prices for some of these tickets is outrageous.
I always heard the German F1 tickets were "over" 1,000 euros. Not sure IF thats true or not, but it doesn't surprise me. Most of the DTM tickets are well under 100 euros!!
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      02-04-2015, 07:47 AM   #12
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I always heard the German F1 tickets were "over" 1,000 euros. Not sure IF thats true or not, but it doesn't surprise me. Most of the DTM tickets are well under 100 euros!!
Huuuge difference and its no wonder how the DTM is able to fill the stands.


Here's something I found today:


"The 84-year-old British business magnate appeared to rule out the possibility of the race happening in an email sent to a German newspaper on Monday in which he said it would not be "commercially viable".

But he subsequently backtracked and said he would know by this weekend whether the race will take place or not.

Referring to Germany`s two F1 circuits, Hockenheim and Nurburgring, Ecclestone, chief executive of the Formula One group, said: "Basically we haven`t a contract with either venue.

"We are trying to get something done, we are trying to help them. In the end, and God only knows why, the audience in Germany is lousy.

"I`ve no idea why it should be, because they`ve a German manufacturer in Mercedes who are constructors` champions, they had a driver in Sebastian (Vettel) who won four successive drivers` championships.

"But they have not been selling enough tickets to make it work. It`s purely commercial, so I`m trying to be a little bit helpful to them.

"We`re trying to rescue it, but I can`t guarantee we will. We are doing our best, and maybe by this weekend we`ll have an answer. I hope so."

The German Grand Prix traditionally alternates between Hockenheim and Nurburgring and was due to take place at the latter this year, but the venue has been beset by financial difficulties.

"If we do something, it is looking like Hockenheim will probably be the most-likely venue," Ecclestone added.

"The bottom line is there is still a chance and we hope to know more by the weekend."

This year`s race is scheduled to take place on July 17-19."
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      02-04-2015, 09:02 AM   #13
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My mom and I used to go to at least two races a year. She was a flight attendant, so during the summer we always flew overseas to see a race or two and then Indy later on. We haven't gone to a race in several years due to how boring the races are, and the outrageous ticket prices. I can barely stand to watch the races at 4x speed now after recording them because they're just so boring.

At this point, for me F1 is nothing but a show I watch because I feel like I have to, not that I want to. It's obvious many other people feel the same way.
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      02-04-2015, 03:49 PM   #14
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Okay,

To give people an idea when it comes to prices, check the links. You will be shocked at what you see. And no, this is not SPAM or MALWARE. This is straight from the F1.com and DTM sites. Now for F1, I had to use the Austrian GP because Hockenheim prices are not available at this time (I wonder why....)

As much as I want to see an F1 race (Bucket list) I would prefer to see the DTM race. More excitement, fun and extremely cheaper.

The sport is being ruined by Ecclestone and CVC because of all the high pricing and fees they want to charge the tracks. They're not happy with a track pushing back (Imola is a good example) and Monza and they up the fees and want to remove them from the calendar. The last Bahrain GP was not even half full but they race there. Main reason, money. And they will pay it.

DTM: https://shop.qtixx.com/online/index....=3&nextstate=4

Gold Gold inkl. Fahrerlager Vollpreis 95,00 EUR
Gold Gold inkl. Fahrerlager ermäßigt 47,50 EUR
Gold Gold Vollpreis 70,00 EUR
Gold Gold ermäßigt 35,00 EUR
Gold inkl. Fahrerlager Gold inkl. Fahrerlager Vollpreis 95,00 EUR
Gold inkl. Fahrerlager Gold inkl. Fahrerlager ermäßigt 47,50 EUR
Silber Silber inkl. Fahrerlager Vollpreis 75,00 EUR
Silber Silber inkl. Fahrerlager ermäßigt 37,50 EUR
Silber Silber Vollpreis 50,00 EUR
Silber Silber ermäßigt 25,00 EUR
Silber Familienticket Silber inkl. Fahrerlager 160,00 EUR
Bronze Bronze inkl. Fahrerlager Vollpreis 60,00 EUR
Bronze Bronze inkl. Fahrerlager ermäßigt 30,00 EUR
Bronze Bronze Vollpreis 35,00 EUR
Bronze Bronze ermäßigt 17,50 EUR
Bronze Familienticket Bronze inkl. Fahrerlager 135,00 EUR
Fahrerlager Fahrerlager Vollpreis 25,00 EUR
Fahrerlager Fahrerlager ermäßigt 12,50 EU

F1: http://tickets.formula1.com/en/3222-austria-fom/

MAIN STRAIGHT
Details
Early Bird Qty.
Start-Finish - (Fri-Sun)
559,00 €

South West - (Fri-Sun)
559,00 €

RED BULL GRANDSTANDS
Details

Early Bird Qty.
Red Bull AB upper level - (Fri-Sun)

559,00 €

Red Bull AB lower level - (Fri-Sun)

445,00 €

Red Bull CDE upper level - (Fri-Sun)

395,00 € SOLD OUT
Red Bull CDE upper level - (Sun)

355,00 € SOLD OUT
Red Bull CDE lower level - (Fri-Sun)

335,00 €

Red Bull CDE lower level - (Sun)

299,00 €

Red Bull FGH upper level - (Fri-Sun)

335,00 €

Red Bull FGH upper level - (Sun)

299,00 €
- +
Red Bull FGH lower level - (Fri-Sun)

275,00 €

Red Bull FGH lower level - (Sun)

249,00 €

Red Bull I upper level - (Fri-Sun)

335,00 €

Red Bull I upper level - (Sun)

299,00 €

Red Bull I lower level - (Fri-Sun)

275,00 €

Red Bull I lower level - (Sun)

249,00 €

Red Bull JK upper level - (Fri-Sun)

335,00 €

Red Bull JK upper level - (Sun)

299,00 €

Red Bull JK lower level - (Fri-Sun)

275,00 €

Red Bull JK lower level - (Sun)

249,00 €

NORTH AREA
Details

Early Bird Qty.
North - (Fri-Sun)

395,00 €

CENTRAL AREA
Details

Early Bird Qty.
Central (Mitte) - (Fri-Sun)

219,00 € SOLD OUT
Central (Mitte) - (Sun)

199,00 € SOLD OUT
GENERAL ADMISSION
Details

Early Bird Qty.
General Admission - (Fri-Sun)

105,00 €

CHILD TICKETS (BORN IN OR AFTER 2001)
Details

Early Bird Qty.
Start-Finish - (Fri-Sun)

279,00 €

South West - (Fri-Sun)

279,00 €

Red Bull AB upper level - (Fri-Sun)

279,00 €

Red Bull AB lower level - (Fri-Sun)

225,00 €

Red Bull CDE upper level - (Fri-Sun)

199,00 € SOLD OUT
Red Bull CDE lower level - (Fri-Sun)

165,00 €

Red Bull FGH upper level - (Fri-Sun)

165,00 €

Red Bull FGH lower level - (Fri-Sun)

139,00 €

Red Bull I upper level - (Fri-Sun)

165,00 €

Red Bull I lower level - (Fri-Sun)

139,00 €

Red Bull JK upper level - (Fri-Sun)

165,00 €

Red Bull JK lower level - (Fri-Sun)

139,00 €

North - (Fri-Sun)

199,00 €

Central (Mitte) - (Fri-Sun)

109,00 € SOLD OUT
General Admission - (Fri-Sun)

54,00 €
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      02-04-2015, 03:55 PM   #15
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Aren't the purses that teams earn significantly higher in F1 than in DTM? I think that's a piece of the puzzle that you're discounting.
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      02-04-2015, 05:53 PM   #16
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Bernie Ecclestone has completely ruined F1 because of greed. He DOES NOT CARE about fans one single iota. Fuck that guy, the sport will be better off when he dies, because that's what it's going to take.

FUCK YOU BERNIE ECCLESTONE.
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      02-05-2015, 10:58 AM   #17
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FIA president Jean Todt said the issue is between the German circuits and Ecclestone.

"So far I can only refer to the calendar," he told Russia's f1news.ru, "and if you look at the championship for 2015, you will see the German grand prix.

"If there are any commercial problems, it is not the FIA but rather the commercial rights holder that should comment," Todt added
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      02-05-2015, 11:23 AM   #18
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The Strategy Group (Bernie Ecclestone and six "leading teams" - Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes, Williams and Lotus) meeting is happening today in Paris. Hopefuly we'll know the fate of the German Grand Prix sometime today.

They'll also be discussing 1000bhp engines - for the 2016 and 2017 seasons, the potential for wider cars and stickier tires and greater downforce tech as well as Marussia.
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      02-05-2015, 04:10 PM   #19
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Aren't the purses that teams earn significantly higher in F1 than in DTM? I think that's a piece of the puzzle that you're discounting.
Honestly, I don't know but I do think you are correct. Even with that though, the prices for a weekend seat are pretty out there for the normal enthusiast. That's almost 600-750 dollars for a weekend.
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Bernie has told the teams that if the German GP does not happen it will not be replaced by an extra event elsewhere in 2015. For 2016 and beyond see below
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      02-09-2015, 02:26 PM   #21
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If this race falls off, then there will be an opening on the calender for '16/'17.

Apparently, Bernie and Qatar are soon to or have already signed a contract to bring a stop to the region. Bahrain is now ok with it...

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12...to-the-country" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www1.skysport...he-country</a>
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      02-09-2015, 02:28 PM   #22
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and another turn of events, potentially:

"According to Auto Motor und Sport, Ecclestone informed the powerful strategy group at its meeting in Paris last Thursday that while time is running out, negotiations are still taking place.

"Ecclestone also made clear that there is no substitute race in the event of a cancellation. Then there would only be 19 grands prix on the calendar," wrote correspondent Michael Schmidt.

Sport Bild claims that one saviour could be Mercedes, for whom Germany is its key home race.

The publication claims that it is possible the German giant and reigning world champions will fund the difference between Ecclestone's race fee demands and Hockenheim's projected loss.

And Nurburgring spokesman Carsten Schumacher is quoted by DPA news agency: "In the interest of motor sport fans and the region, we are willing to accept a reasonable loss."
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