Alpina B7 or M760 (2016-2019)

[cmobe]

Hello Bimmerpost family!!! I'm looking to get either an Alpina B7 or a M760 (2017-2019)...I know that they both produce 600hp and the Alpina uses the V8 and the M760 a V12...but what other major difference are there and which do you prefer and why? Any positive feedback is greatly appreciated!!! Thank you.

[Raimo5]

If it was me, I would get the M760 just for the engine. V12 is a dying breed and it is nice to have one until you can.

[Snake 33]

I would go for the M760. The V-12 and the M-sport package are worth the purchase

[CactusDave]

I vote M

[Atavus]

I wanted a V12. I’d get the Alpina if I didn’t want the V12.

[jokerswld34]

I cross shopped both before picking the M760. The Alpina is a great car. I loved the unique look of the body kit and wheels, and it is very fast. While the M760 is more M and blends a bit more with other 7er cars with M package, there is nothing BMW offers that drives like the V12. It is special beyond compare. Effortless and smooth performance. Stately, luxurious and fast as hell. It flies under the radar a bit (depending on your color combo) until someone sees the V12 badge.

The Alpina is great. It feels a bit more performance oriented as compared to the M760 despite both being similar in overall performance. but it’s still a V8 and the same engine (albeit a modified one) that is available in many other BMW vehicles. The V12 is like an aircraft taking off.

I also feel that parts availability for Alpina may be difficult, especially if you’re in a fender bender so going with the M760 would make it less of an issue.

[chad86tsi]

I cross shopped the M760i to an M5, which has the same engine as the Alpina. You just can't find that instant torque the V-12 produces anywhere but an EV. It's just always there, and spools the turbos instantly. The V8 makes plenty of power, but the V-12 does it absolutely effortlessly. Even in city driving, you can feel that difference. I also shopped a model S performance, city driving torque is similar to that experience.

If you care about fuel economy, on highway and mixed (mostly highway) I get about 20 - 21 MPG. It drops into the mid teens in the city.

If you care about keeping it (as I do with mine) you will find the V-12 has almost zero problems reported, including from BMW techs that say they never see them come in for repairs. The V8 works pretty hard, and has a reputation for needing engine repairs more often than some would like. I'm sure these cars are worked hard by their owners, but they simply have to work hard to make their power. The V-12 runs just 11 pounds of turbo boost to make it's power, the V-8 is somewhere around 20. 6.6 vs 4.4 liters, both make the same power, the smaller one obviously has to work a lot harder.

I just did my own first oil change since I've had it (31K), didn't burn any oil because it drained out almost exactly the amount that went into it 11,000 miles ago.

[BMW5and7]

But guys, why does the Alpina sells for higher price than a M760 of similar age and MSRP?? Most Alpinas are in the 85-90K for mileage between 25-35K of 2020 model years.... wherein any M760 with that mileage and age is close to 70-80K.... Weird isn't?

Also has anyone noticed that the interior of most Alpina is much much nicer than most M760s? Same for rear end styling? Am I mistaken?

Exhaust sound of the Alpina is also very unique.

Am not sure about the engines, but I think both are proven to be a bullet proof.

[M_Bimmer]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

But guys, why does the Alpina sells for higher price than a M760 of similar age and MSRP?? Most Alpinas are in the 85-90K for mileage between 25-35K of 2020 model years.... wherein any M760 with that mileage and age is close to 70-80K.... Weird isn't?

Also has anyone noticed that the interior of most Alpina is much much nicer than most M760s? Same for rear end styling? Am I mistaken?

Exhaust sound of the Alpina is also very unique.

Am not sure about the engines, but I think both are proven to be a bullet proof.

The B7's have a hand-built version of BMW's N63, different turbos, different ECU and transmission software, AND an Alpina exhaust. The B7 also has a tuned air suspension. The whole car is an Alpina tuned package. Instrument cluster, software and door sills are added. Front bumper and rear bumper are changed out...and my favorite, the wheels are changed out.

My '18 F85 had issues starting at 3K miles. My '18 B7 has only had the turbo cooling lines replaced within it's 55K miles of use, and still pulls strong

The engine and suspension are dialed in so well, it feels like the vehicle is only going half the speed of the stated odometer, even on 21" Alpina wheels and Michelin non-RFT's.

If I were to do it over again, I'd still go with the B7, it's about the full package, not just the engine. The B7 "luxury" is appreciated by both the driver and its passengers and get so many comments from those riding in the rear seat with the rear seat executive package.

Personally, I think the G12 is all about the interior and options, so regardless if it's a 760 or a B7, it should be fully optioned.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

But guys, why does the Alpina sells for higher price than a M760 of similar age and MSRP?? Most Alpinas are in the 85-90K for mileage between 25-35K of 2020 model years.... wherein any M760 with that mileage and age is close to 70-80K.... Weird isn't?

Also has anyone noticed that the interior of most Alpina is much much nicer than most M760s? Same for rear end styling? Am I mistaken?

Exhaust sound of the Alpina is also very unique.

Am not sure about the engines, but I think both are proven to be a bullet proof.

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

The B7's have a hand-built version of BMW's N63, different turbos, different ECU and transmission software, AND an Alpina exhaust. The B7 also has a tuned air suspension. The whole car is an Alpina tuned package. Instrument cluster, software and door sills are added. Front bumper and rear bumper are changed out...and my favorite, the wheels are changed out.

My '18 F85 had issues starting at 3K miles. My '18 B7 has only had the turbo cooling lines replaced within it's 55K miles of use, and still pulls strong

The engine and suspension are dialed in so well, it feels like the vehicle is only going half the speed of the stated odometer, even on 21" Alpina wheels and Michelin non-RFT's.

If I were to do it over again, I'd still go with the B7, it's about the full package, not just the engine. The B7 "luxury" is appreciated by both the driver and its passengers and get so many comments from those riding in the rear seat with the rear seat executive package.

Personally, I think the G12 is all about the interior and options, so regardless if it's a 760 or a B7, it should be fully optioned.

Yes and I agree... and the way that B7 sets on the ground (cosmetically lower) makes it way more appealing. The M760 looks like a dressed 50i or 40i. The B7 certainly stands out.

[chad86tsi]

The M760i does blend in a lot more, no doubt. Few realize what it is when they see it drive by. I'm fine with that

I looked for mine for 5 months, made spreadsheets to track packages/options. Search criterial was 2018&2019 M760i and B7 Alpina, nationwide. One trend I found is Alpina' s often had fewer options. I got my M760i with almost every option, safe for the full executive rear seat package which deletes the front passenger seat adjustability, which I didn't want.

The alpina does fetch more money for what you get option wise, probably a 8% premium. Stands to reason it will retain some of that over time.

I'm pretty happy with suspension tuning, and leave it in standard "comfort mode" 99% of the time. If I had it to do over again, I'd make the same choice.

[BMW5and7]

There are a few vehicles I found, some are M760 and couple B7 vehicles.

They are all fully loaded, but one very rare options I could not find was the rear seat entertainment. Am not sure if I should work hard finding one with, or if I should proceed with those I found without it. My kids need the RSE screens, and am not sure if there is any non-factory flush nice design that can be as good as factory. Appreciate any suggestions.

As for M760 vs B7, am more interested in the exterior design and exhaust sound of the B7... both have similar hp, for some reason I feel I should stay with the V8 engine on the B7 given it's reputation. Not sure how the V12 will treat me down the road maintenance wise if I get it.

INTERESTING ENOUGH!!!! --> am also cross shopping both with the Tesla Model S Long Range white interior refresh design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

There are a few vehicles I found, some are M760 and couple B7 vehicles.

They are all fully loaded, but one very rare options I could not find was the rear seat entertainment. Am not sure if I should work hard finding one with, or if I should proceed with those I found without it. My kids need the RSE screens, and am not sure if there is any non-factory flush nice design that can be as good as factory. Appreciate any suggestions.

As for M760 vs B7, am more interested in the exterior design and exhaust sound of the B7... both have similar hp, for some reason I feel I should stay with the V8 engine on the B7 given it's reputation. Not sure how the V12 will treat me down the road maintenance wise if I get it.

INTERESTING ENOUGH!!!! --> am also cross shopping both with the Tesla Model S Long Range white interior refresh design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rear seat entertainment was pretty rare in the B7's, of the dozen or so that I came across, probably 20% or less had it. In the M760's is was probably closer to 50%. It was a must have on my list. Same for the rear center console tablet, more common the M760. My rear seats get used often. I wonder if the B7 is catering to a different client base from the M760i.

As to engine reputation, there is essentially no bad press on the V12, and it's in a lot of other vehicles (Rolls-Royce) . It evolved from the V12 in the Mclaren F1. While very potent, there is some evidence the N63 4.4 has issues, some of which are internal. A lot more of them have been made so it's logically going to get more hits for problems, but there just aren't many for the N74, most of which are external problems.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

The rear seat entertainment was pretty rare in the B7's, of the dozen or so that I came across, probably 20% or less had it. In the M760's is was probably closer to 50%. It was a must have on my list. Same for the rear center console tablet, more common the M760. My rear seats get used often. I wonder if the B7 is catering to a different client base from the M760i.

As to engine reputation, there is essentially no bad press on the V12, and it's in a lot of other vehicles (Rolls-Royce) . It evolved from the V12 in the Mclaren F1. While very potent, there is some evidence the N63 4.4 has issues, some of which are internal. A lot more of them have been made so it's logically going to get more hits for problems, but there just aren't many for the N74, most of which are external problems.

About 95% of the B7 if not all of them have the rear center console tablet. It is only the rear seat that does not seem to be preferred in the B7... I also like the wood in the B7.. they have some unique colors.

I don't know am really having a hard time choosing between the B7, M760 and the Model S 2022 refresh. I feel I will get one of them this week or will just keep my current drive. Will see how it goes. Waiting to find the right car for the right price.

[M_Bimmer]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

As to engine reputation, there is essentially no bad press on the V12, and it's in a lot of other vehicles (Rolls-Royce) . It evolved from the V12 in the Mclaren F1.

The N74B60 and N74B66TU were used in BMW, while the N74B68 is used in the current Rolls Royce Phantom, Callinan and Ghost.

Here is an article on the N74 and the list of issues with the engine is actually no different from the N63, which I would suspect that the rarity of the issues posted on this forum regarding this engine is directly proportional to the number of N74 owners.

https://bimmers.com/blog/bmw-n74-eng...mmon-problems/

I am not advocating one engine over the other.....but, if you are in the market for an N72 platform, with low miles, there are LOTs of G12 760's for sale over here on the left coast.....

[BMW5and7]

I would not mind the N74 V12 engine if it was tuned by Alpina.

What I specifically like about the B7 compared to the M760 is first the exterior aggressive styling that stands out really really well outside, the unique interior wood and some special touches, and finally the tunes exhaust system which adds more fun. Both are as powerful, so that makes the B7 a clear win at least for me. Am opened for debates or ideas, am still shopping and would appreciate any thoughts or debates that helps to gear my decision to the better vehicle.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

The N74B60 and N74B66TU were used in BMW, while the N74B68 is used in the current Rolls Royce Phantom, Callinan and Ghost.

Here is an article on the N74 and the list of issues with the engine is actually no different from the N63, which I would suspect that the rarity of the issues posted on this forum regarding this engine is directly proportional to the number of N74 owners.

https://bimmers.com/blog/bmw-n74-eng...mmon-problems/



I am not advocating one engine over the other.....but, if you are in the market for an N72 platform, with low miles, there are LOTs of G12 760's for sale over here on the left coast.....

Yes, I'm aware of that link, The N74 doesn't have the common problems of oil consumption, or less frequently broken timing chains, or the heat issues with the hot-V configuration if the N63. The N63 has the same issues found in the N74, plus several others which are internal and thus more problematic to address should they ever happen.

There are multiple versions of the N74, just as there are multiple versions of the N63.

[Derived]

Pre-LCI especially, M760i every time. Not even close.

The massive performance increase (and much better looks) of the LCI B7 make it a harder choice, and I did consider one...but I couldn't go without the V12. It's just the better engine for this sort of car. And I really don't trust the N63 long-term, even if it's been breathed upon by Alpina. Every variant and evolution has ended up having problems after a while, understandably given how hard it works. The V12 is so massively under-stressed that I have no worries about its long-term reliability. And, in fact, the earliest versions of this engine have been around since 2008 and I have yet to really hear a single complaint about this powertrain in any BMW or RR since introduction. The B7 may be a little sharper but the M760 is the more special car in my opinion. If I wanted a V8 I'd have gone for an S63 or a Panamera (which I almost did).

[jokerswld34]

I share the same sentiment as Derived. No doubt the Alpina is a very special car. And packs a lot of luxury and performance. But the hot V8s are not the most reliable motors. I had a 2020 X5M competition (S63tu) and had a lot of issues with it. To get the amount of power and performance out of the V8, the engine is very stressed. Not that it can’t handle it but longevity is a concern when pushing to the limits. I chose the V12 for many reasons, but a big one was how effortless and stress free the motor works. I bet it could handle another 150+ hp without breaking a sweat whereas the V8 is already getting close to maxing out with the full M or Alpina tunes.

Another thing to note is that the V12 comes equipped with the ZF 8hp95 (same as jeep track hawk, Bentley, etc.) which is the more robust and higher output transmission. This is what all the V8s should’ve had as well but they come with the 8hp75 which has a lower power rating. Long term, the more robust transmission should have less issues and can handle more power if you ever decide to tune your vehicle.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by jokerswld34

I share the same sentiment as Derived. No doubt the Alpina is a very special car. And packs a lot of luxury and performance. But the hot V8s are not the most reliable motors. I had a 2020 X5M competition (S63tu) and had a lot of issues with it. To get the amount of power and performance out of the V8, the engine is very stressed. Not that it can’t handle it but longevity is a concern when pushing to the limits. I chose the V12 for many reasons, but a big one was how effortless and stress free the motor works. I bet it could handle another 150+ hp without breaking a sweat whereas the V8 is already getting close to maxing out with the full M or Alpina tunes.

Another thing to note is that the V12 comes equipped with the ZF 8hp95 (same as jeep track hawk, Bentley, etc.) which is the more robust and higher output transmission. This is what all the V8s should’ve had as well but they come with the 8hp75 which has a lower power rating. Long term, the more robust transmission should have less issues and can handle more power if you ever decide to tune your vehicle.

These are very solid and good arguments.. I appreciate the feedback.

The problem when looking for M760 while shopping is that almost every LCI M760 in the US has the black interior and not a single on has the Turfco or something lighter. I am specifically referring to model years 2020. I am excluding the 2021 and 2022 from my search because I know many features such as rear seat entertainment got discontinues since 2021+, so to me the 2020 model year is the goat. But again, bot a single M760 out of the current 25 vehicles in the current check all the marks, whereas finding a loaded B7 with Turfco or light interior seems to be way easier.

Another observation I found is that almost all M760s are about 10K lower on average than an equivalently built B7 with same mileage... not sure why.. but the B7 seems to be holding it's value much better than M760.... (one could look at it the opposite side too, M760 is more affordable...).

[The7th]

If i would move to Europe deffo 760. Alpina is a different class. I would not spend £150k for an Alpina as I can get a GT Speed Continental.

[ProjektAutoScott]

For me, that is a really easy decision. I've had both, and spent lots of time in both. I've experienced all the shades of F01/2 and G12. My shop owns, services, upgrades, and sells used BMWs only. I cannot personally afford to sink that much cash long term, but if I could it would be into a used M760i again.

A well optioned M760i with full merino, Bower Wilkins, rear seating pkg, etc. is the answer.

The B7 is cool and unique. If you are a huge Alpina fan, no one would fault you for wanting something that very few have. Even compared to an M760i, the B7 is rare.

But, in reality you can get 90% of the feeling of the B7 by tuning a well optioned 750i and getting some nice wheels. I know there is more to the B7 than that, but it doesn't feel it once you get over the extended appearance of the B7. It's no V12.

You are driving a twin-turbo V12 monster. It feels effortless, and the engine seems so under-stressed at only 90HP per liter. Very comforting to drive.

The high strung Alpina engine feels like it could be a time-bomb, based on the sheer high output for a smaller displacement engine. Not that this is a reality, but that sinking exotic-tuned-engine feeling of concern creeps in your head sometimes, and may prevent you from fully enjoying the car like it does for me. It feels more delicate and more irreplaceable.

Every time I would start the M760i I felt something. That car always made me feel like an absolute gangster. I can't say the same about the B7. Eventually, it starts to feel like an up-badged 750i... which it is, essentially. Hot take, I know.

As far as comfort driving experience, I understand the B7 is aimed at ultra-luxury, and the M760i is supposedly a performance model. drivetrain and visual appearance aside, both having different driving modes available, air suspension in both, sound deadening, etc.. I can honestly tell you that there is literally no tangible difference you could make out between the two. I don't care what any car reviewer says, or any tech document conveys. They are both top-tier 7 series. The M760i has more synthetic exhaust inside, and a much rowdier exhaust outside in sport. But, in comfort/comfort plus, the difference is negligible.

Reliability-wise, for pre-LCI and LCI G12s, the engines in both are arguably just fine these days. The N74TU/TU2 is robust design. As far as we know, it doesn't have any "gotchas" like the older models did. The S/N63TU2/3/4 on which the V8 is based is also a great engine these days. Changes have been made to remedy issues of the past. The great features of the modular B-series engines have been adapted to both the V8 and the V12. They have only continued to improve further in successive generations.

That said, the specialty Alpina-only parts for the B7 V8 engine are MUCH harder to come by. They are more expensive if something does go wrong. Not to mention, most shops have absolutely no clue how and where to find the correct specialty parts for the Alpina models. It's harder to find someone to work on the B7 as a result in my experience.

A used M760i is the best value big body sedan on earth right now. You will not regret it.