2016 Motor Trend Car of the Year: Chevrolet Camaro

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Leaf springs.

:: drops mic ::

Apparently they outshine a 340i. Imagine what would happen to a 228i.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

So they give the award to a car that is barely on the streets? I'm happy with the new Camaro but giving the award to a car that's barely out is pretty absurd and even more so for the "2016" car of the "year".

Great car but there is something better out there.

Waiting to test this car months from now would have changed what? They don't include reliability as part of their criteria.

What new model car available when they did their testing should have been included?

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by David70

Waiting to test this car months from now would have changed what? They don't include reliability as part of their criteria.

What new model car available when they did their testing should have been included?

Well were the cars that were in the runnings for this brand new, as in a new design for 2016? So in that case I don't know what other cars they could have put in since I don't know what other cars are waiting to be released. Maybe if they wanted a few months something else was coming due to be released and would have done better.

And also considering what the Camaro was up against, there is no reason why it would have not won. Now that I see what was tested and I'm sure they let it win to make the AMG or 7 series look bad since they cost soooo much.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

Camaro SS is faster then M4 ( http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-tested-review ) yet it costs about the same as above-poverty-specs 228i.

Based on this video

they improved interior quality and functionality as well. This car makes it harder and harder to justify paying BMW tax.

It may be faster, but in my eye it leaves a lot to be desired from a looks perspective, feels claustrophobic from the inside, and is something that a 20-something would drive. I've sat in them, and they seem cheap in many respects. I think I'll stick with my M3.

Just my opinion. Others will may disagree.

If I wanted the fastest car possible, I'd buy a used Z-06, but I don't really want or have much interest in a Corvette.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Apparently they outshine a 340i. Imagine what would happen to a 228i.

Actually, I don't imagine that because I don't care. Leaf springs are an absolute deal breaker for me.

IOW: I don't care how fast, composed, nimble, mind- or crotch-blowing, etc. a car is if it has leaf springs, because I don't want to own a car with an inherently limited and inferior suspension design that only suits non-driven hubs and (barely) live axle applications and dates to the 19th century -- and that is now commonly used almost exclusively for heavy-load applications (trucks, trailers ... locomotives!!!).

There's a reason for that last part -- actually, two reasons: It's all but maintenance free for the life of the vehicle no matter what its intent, and it's comparatively cheap to produce.

[Wheelwright]

Originally Posted by Mustangquadcam

It (Camaro) may be faster, but in my eye it leaves a lot to be desired from a looks perspective, feels claustrophobic from the inside, and is something that a 20-something would drive. I've sat in them, and they seem cheap in many respects. I think I'll stick with my M3.

Did you sit in the new one ? its interior looks improved. Also the reviews praise the new seats and steering wheel. I agree M3 has some compelling advantages over Camaro like all-around visibility and practicality but it is harder to make a case for M4 because like Camaro it is "claustrophobic" and impractical.

[Wheelwright]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Actually, I don't imagine that because I don't care. Leaf springs are an absolute deal breaker for me.

IOW: I don't care how fast, composed, nimble, mind- or crotch-blowing, etc. a car is if it has leaf springs, because I don't want to own a car with an inherently limited and inferior suspension design that only suits non-driven hubs and (barely) live axle applications and dates to the 19th century

I don't think leaf-springs is the same as live-axle because Corvette suspension is still classified as independent which live-axle suspension isn't.

Now that's an interesting tidbit, according to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvette_leaf_spring the best SUV currently on the market: Volvo XC90 Mk. 2 actually uses leaf-suspension.

[aloksatoor]

You can always put in coileovers too. The porsche 928s also had torsion for the rears, they make great track cars too. As long as it works, what does it matter.

[Nitrousbird]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Actually, I don't imagine that because I don't care. Leaf springs are an absolute deal breaker for me.

IOW: I don't care how fast, composed, nimble, mind- or crotch-blowing, etc. a car is if it has leaf springs, because I don't want to own a car with an inherently limited and inferior suspension design that only suits non-driven hubs and (barely) live axle applications and dates to the 19th century -- and that is now commonly used almost exclusively for heavy-load applications (trucks, trailers ... locomotives!!!).

There's a reason for that last part -- actually, two reasons: It's all but maintenance free for the life of the vehicle no matter what its intent, and it's comparatively cheap to produce.

I'll take a leaf spring, pushrod motor Vette any day over a slow ass 228. Just saying.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Well were the cars that were in the runnings for this brand new, as in a new design for 2016? So in that case I don't know what other cars they could have put in since I don't know what other cars are waiting to be released. Maybe if they wanted a few months something else was coming due to be released and would have done better.

And also considering what the Camaro was up against, there is no reason why it would have not won. Now that I see what was tested and I'm sure they let it win to make the AMG or 7 series look bad since they cost soooo much.

I believe they run the test at the same time every year and cars that came out since the last test are eligible. If it comes out after the test it is eligible for next years test. If they always waited for some car that was soon to come out they would never have the competition.

Cost is part of the criteria as a car that cost twice as much should be better. This doesn't mean they are trying to make another car "look bad".

You keep saying they let it win, they didn't test the right cars or they didn't wait long enough, what car do you think should have won (of all cars that came out since last Fall and considering price)?

I haven't seen the complete list of cars but the title in the link for the original post is -

4 Days, 26 Cars, and One Bitchin’ Winner

[G8rGrl]

Originally Posted by David70

I believe they run the test at the same time every year and cars that came out since the last test are eligible. If it comes out after the test it is eligible for next years test. If they always waited for some car that was soon to come out they would never have the competition.

Cost is part of the criteria as a car that cost twice as much should be better. This doesn't mean they are trying to make another car "look bad".

You keep saying they let it win, they didn't test the right cars or they didn't wait long enough, what car do you think should have won (of all cars that came out since last Fall and considering price)?

I haven't seen the complete list of cars but the title in the link for the original post is -

I've noticed that some people on this forum get...reactive...when their $70,000 - $85,000 BMW purchase doesn't win a competition or an award. It's normal...people typically like to get confirmation/affirmation that they made the "best" decision and picked the "best" commodity.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Actually, I don't imagine that because I don't care. Leaf springs are an absolute deal breaker for me.

IOW: I don't care how fast, composed, nimble, mind- or crotch-blowing, etc. a car is if it has leaf springs, because I don't want to own a car with an inherently limited and inferior suspension design that only suits non-driven hubs and (barely) live axle applications and dates to the 19th century -- and that is now commonly used almost exclusively for heavy-load applications (trucks, trailers ... locomotives!!!).

There's a reason for that last part -- actually, two reasons: It's all but maintenance free for the life of the vehicle no matter what its intent, and it's comparatively cheap to produce.

GM knows a thing or two about suspension. One only has to look as far as the Z28, SS 1LE, ZL1, ATS-V, CTS-V, SS, G8, etc...

The CG of the Corvette (the on with the leaf springs) is pretty low, coupled with it's magnetic ride suspension, it does things other cars can only dream of, with a ride quality that isn't "track-only car". A spring is a spring.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Actually, I don't imagine that because I don't care. Leaf springs are an absolute deal breaker for me.

IOW: I don't care how fast, composed, nimble, mind- or crotch-blowing, etc. a car is if it has leaf springs, because I don't want to own a car with an inherently limited and inferior suspension design that only suits non-driven hubs and (barely) live axle applications and dates to the 19th century -- and that is now commonly used almost exclusively for heavy-load applications (trucks, trailers ... locomotives!!!).

There's a reason for that last part -- actually, two reasons: It's all but maintenance free for the life of the vehicle no matter what its intent, and it's comparatively cheap to produce.

First of all it isn't leaf springs. It is one composite leaf spring, that runs transvere. It is at the lowest point and presses against lower control arms. It has nothing to do with live rear axles or truck suspensions. The rear suspension is true double wishbone setup. They continue with this setup one because it works very well and its low center of gravity. Combined with world class leading magnetic ride, C7 suspension is one hell of a package.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

I'll take a leaf spring, pushrod motor Vette any day over a slow ass 228. Just saying.

Apples vs. oranges, man. But good for you. I'd get a used Cayman S before any 'vette. I won't bore you with the myriad of reasons why (transverse leaf spring notwithstanding. It's still a leaf spring.).

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by David70

I believe they run the test at the same time every year and cars that came out since the last test are eligible. If it comes out after the test it is eligible for next years test. If they always waited for some car that was soon to come out they would never have the competition.

Cost is part of the criteria as a car that cost twice as much should be better. This doesn't mean they are trying to make another car "look bad".

You keep saying they let it win, they didn't test the right cars or they didn't wait long enough, what car do you think should have won (of all cars that came out since last Fall and considering price)?

I haven't seen the complete list of cars but the title in the link for the original post is -

Well how can a lowly Camaro SS edge out over a AMG GT S? This is what I found for a list, but its not 26 cars:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...dary-car-guys/

As far as suspension, the SS (1SS or 2SS) can be equipped with magnetic ride suspension. Say all you want about leaf springs but the Camaro and Corvette do very well against the euro cars in handling.

Like mentioned before, the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 lay down some amazing track times and handling numbers considering how much they weigh. Just because something doesn't have the latest and greatest technology doesn't mean it isn't going to do the same job well.

[fcman]

Why the hell is everyone talking about leaf springs? The Camaro is on coils, as it has been for years and years.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by fcman

Why the hell is everyone talking about leaf springs? The Camaro is on coils, as it has been for years and years.

And the Corvette's aren't anything like the leaf springs people are referring to.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by fcman

Why the hell is everyone talking about leaf springs? The Camaro is on coils, as it has been for years and years.

I was stang stuck or something. Must take meds.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Leaf springs.

:: drops mic ::

Originally Posted by fcman

Why the hell is everyone talking about leaf springs? The Camaro is on coils, as it has been for years and years.

Not quite sure. Apparently viffermike is under the impression the Camaro uses leaf springs.

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by fcman

With those wheel/tire sizes it's gonna be an expensive track car. Hopefully you'll be able to downsize to at least 18s. I like these cars but dropping $1400 on some tires for you track car is gonna hurt. It's the same reason I cant bring myself to put money down on the new Focus RS, even though it's looking like an almost a perfect car to me.

Of course you can fit 18" wheels on the new camaro... it has smallish brakes over those giant 20's.

I wish the car had smaller wheel openings (and 19s as the largest rim option, not 20s) ... along with of course a lower belt line and larger windows.

I'm thrilled to hear it is a great driving car (I had a few f body cars back in my college days) but looks aren't on its side.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

Of course you can fit 18" wheels on the new camaro... it has smallish brakes over those giant 20's.

I wish the car had smaller wheel openings (and 19s as the largest rim option, not 20s) ... along with of course a lower belt line and larger windows.

I'm thrilled to hear it is a great driving car (I had a few f body cars back in my college days) but looks aren't on its side.

I just know the previous gens had issues finding 18" wheels that could clear the brembo calipers on the SS cars. There were some options out there, but not many.

[Simple5]

The Camaro finally trumps the Mustang. Read the review on this car and if I were to choose an average man's American Muscle it would be the Camaro hands down.