Why I hate my 7 Series, and what to do.

[Stormbitch]

I think "hate" is a strong word but this issue is driving me nuts.

Its my second G11 - I had a 730d and now this is a 740xd and I am still really luke warm over it.

I am chasing creaks almost weekly coming from the trim, head rest, and seatbelt housing. The air suspension seems unusual if not a bit clumsy, the anti roll technology rarely keeps the car flat in sport mode and the steering feels neither luxurious nor connected.

Whilst BMW are world best at looking after customers, there is nothing more irritating and soul exploding than a new noise from the cabin of your 80k flagship. One is supposed to be grinning and feeling fortunate, not rolling ones eyes and booking it back into the dealer.

Then there is the road noise, the old 7 series simply did not have hardly any compared to this, at 70mph I can still hear the road noise over some quite loud music, this spoils the adventure and ruins the feeling of "I can go anywhere in this luxury car".

Overall theres an undelying sense that this is not a very well made item and that its perching precariously on the platform of its technology, it feels that whatever digital is happening with the chassis is making it less car and more experimental, experiment!

The Lazer Lights which were a huge option cost, are passable but not even as bright as some of the modern LED lights today and certainly don't dance around as much as they used to. And as for being bright half a mile up the road! Er No.

I find myself only keeping the car based on the fact that it looks good, has a Harmon Kardon sound system and an amazing head up display! Or because I tend to find fault and surely I this car cannot be bad, it must be me.

For something as weilding as this that you literally cannot park hardly anywhere, one should be cuccooned in silence feeling both luxury and sporting but sadly I feel does neither. You can neither saunter along like a lord on the motorway, or leave wide roundabouts in a gust of sporty torque late at night. It just isn't either.

The out going 7 series was and still has a sense of occassion, from its large seat and chunky steering wheel and raised driving position to its quiet, solid and planted road character - in fact in retrospect I should have bought one of those and paid the London congestion charge fee if I ever took it into London!

Despite its beautiful graphics display and world class navigation, sumptous nappa leather and swathes of alluminium and treated wood I still think an Audi or Mercedes is better to sit in.

It seems I have been fooled like a Magpie twice and influenced by my fandom of BMW of old and their amazing after sales.

And so the discussion begins with myself, as I go quietly more demented, what on earth do I buy now!

[Wills2]

I've had my 740xd for 4 months and would echo some of your comments especially the suspension as it really does fall apart once past a certain threshold it seems to simply give up and walk off....leaving the car feeling overwhelmed as the impact thumps through the cabin and the car pitches and shakes sometimes I swear it reacts to bumps that aren't there, that was truly disappointing and still niggles me greatly. But for most of the time it's a joy to drive I find it very quiet and feels four square on the road, I do a lot of long journeys and it just hunkers down and gets on with it, I don't have executive drive pro but in sport mode I find the car corners pretty flat (relative to what it is) and it can be punted down a moorland b road at some pace (so long as you avoid any potholes)

I'm pleased with the interior I really like it, feels and looks lovely to me and mine is rattle free which is surprising given the way some bumps crash through into the cabin as mentioned before.

I only have the LED lights which are bright but the throw of the beam is too short especially on unlit roads.

I really struggle parking the thing though!

[AlteBMW]

The G12 I have is my favorite of all the cars I have owned. None of the issues described are present -- at least for me. I have had Audis and S class in the past and my opinion is that Audi is not in the same class as BMW and MB. The S class is a fine car, but I still prefer BMW. If you are this unhappy, try something else. It is a good thing that we have choices.

[Markr]

I am delighted with mine, and have had it since new in September 2018. I have no rattles whatsoever. I have the occasional thump that catches the suspension out, but no more so than in my 3 prior A8’s, or in my prior XJ8, all of which had air suspension, however best I had was my first XJ8, which was old school suspension, and that was just sublime, but then that compromised handling. I suspect that air suspension can just not react as quickly as normal shocks, but on balance, I prefer it overall.

However, the 740d Xdrive is still the best car I have ever owned - so far.

With regards road noise, I am very pleased, it is quieter than my A8’s by quite some margin, however they are renowned for lots of road noise from the tyres.

I am running 20” wheels and Bridgestone Run Flats, and the only time I notice any road noise is on really poor surfaces.

With ref to the Laser Lights, I find them great, better than the Audi Matrix I had on the last A8, and also better than the Premium LED we have on our 2015 Passat Estate. On full beam, the Audi had more LED’s, so more granular in operation, in that you could see the turning on and off actually happening, but the throw was not as good as the Laser Lights, and I have now been through a Winter with them, so think I have a fair comparison.

Inside the 7 is a far nicer place to be than the Audi, but I think some of that is down to my Audi’s being black interior and my 7 being Ivory, so looks much more luxurious and premium too.

[Stormbitch]

Interesting read, looks like we are Wiltshire neighbours.

Maybe I am partially mad - bored - or too fussy.

Rattles and creaks can taint somewhat psychologically. Strange you don't hear any road noise too as this is a widely noted characteristic of the G11.

Glad it is working out for you though.

[Wills2]

I recently had a new X3 M sport loaner and that handled potholes and sunken drains far better than the 7 that was on 19" RFT, I do think it's a feature of air suspensions they are brilliant until they over step their capabilities I had a drive of a new Cayenne S on air recently and that didn't like high frequency bumps either.

[Pelo Cat]

Hi Stormbitch, sorry to hear you are not getting the value you want out of the current 7 series.

I have had the F01 and the G11 and although there were points I loved about the F01, I'd not trade the new one for it.

Re: creaks: not had any (knocks on wood) in the G11 yet, it's a 16 reg and now has 48k miles on it. Solid. May be that you just have a bad car...I do know what it is like to live with a creak though so that can drive one mad, sorry to hear you have them.

The suspension is not sporty but that suits me and I'm on 18" rims which help with ride quality (smoothing out the rough UK roads) even with run flats. I do know that it is not perfect but I'm not expecting a sports car, rather a sporty luxury limousine.

I only have the basic glass and do agree the old F01 was quieter inside, however, you can spec the G11 with laminated glass that is 5mm thick to really keep the road noise out and as you know, the new LCI models have extra noise damping in the wheel arches and B pillars which should help greatly with noise going forward if you do hang on for an LCI 7.

Re: Laser lights: while they don't light up 600m up the road as marketed, they are still very bright and the regular LED high beams are quite good, in fact, I get flashed more times than I care to mention even in low beam as people find the beams too bright. I find the low and regular high beam (non laser activated) situations very good compared to my previous F01 or to other cars we've had with LED lights (Mini Cooper and a 420d) and I love the adaptive lights, although they do have some quirks such as taking too long to come back on in some conditions on the hard shoulder side of the road after cutting out (for various reasons) and the other side almost never comes on in the UK due to the high traffic volume I find, unless you do a lot of A or B road driving where it can be useful but then the cars in front usually get annoyed, not because it is too bright, simply because they see a 'change' occur in light and assume one has activated high beams (humans can be fickle!)

I actually find the new G11 far, far easier to park, the old F series was a pig in terms of seeing or knowing where the corners of the car were and the G11 handles and has better sight lines out the windows to aid in this regard.

I don't discount your experience, it simply shows that there is unfortunately a higher variability in the G11 than one would wish and therefore you can get a good one or a bad one...I hope you'll stick with them and maybe give the LCI a go and hopefully get that 'proud owner' feeling back again.

Safe travels.

[Arturo_spain]

Hi Stormbitch

I have to agree with you on a couple of things that match precisely my initial impressions & I posted them in my "review" in this forum.

Suspension is not up to par, more specifically the Active Roll Stabilization. I have to believe it's there because I have the Executive Drive package but it rolls like crazy even in Sport, actually in Adaptive mode it works a little better. My previous 535d & X6M both had it and it was very noticeable, barely any body roll even in soft suspension

Also on hard acceleration it seems as the front wheels are barely making contact since the front lifts up so much.

My gripe is that BMW in their Gxx 7 series, and specifically on the M760 which I own, has all their top technological suspension gimmicks in their most refined version, air springs, electric active roll bars, electronic dampers together with the Sport, Comfort, Comfort+, Adaptive modes. This should allow, as they properly do in other BMW series, a distinct & refined differentiation between driving modes, like controlling body roll even with Comfort suspension (not that it does a better job in Sport), like preventing the rear from hunching down so much during acceleration, like going over bumps without disrupting the trajectory...etc.

Also going over rough surfaces transmits too many vibrations which in turn allows creaks to be heard inside the cabin reducing the feeling of refinement

I've driven an MY2018 S63 & a Panamera Turbo Executive with the same suspension technologies as my M760 which I've compared to in my initial review, both had the same level of comfort but without body roll, putting them in Sport had even less body roll & still kept a very refined ride. Going over bumps in the AMG left absolutely no creaks in the cabin.

Regarding the Laser Light in AUTO mode, in my case I find it works great & modifies constantly its behavior with the oncoming traffic & curves. Distance is also very good & much better in comparison with S63 & Panamera MY2018

[Wills2]

Good post Arturo, I have to be honest I'm actively thinking of getting something else which is a pity as the rest of the car is great.

[Arturo_spain]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Good post Arturo, I have to be honest I'm actively thinking of getting something else which is a pity as the rest of the car is great.

Hmmm, sorry to hear that.

I'm a big BMW fan but at the same time I'm in no way blind, there are great cars out there, in fact I was inclined to get an S63 AMG with that lovely engine and sound but the M760 V12 got the best of me, I bought it fully loaded with all the options including fridge & I don't regret it although it has let me down with the suspension, but the engine it has compensates the other shortcommings.

BR

[Markr]

Originally Posted by Stormbitch

Interesting read, looks like we are Wiltshire neighbours.

Maybe I am partially mad - bored - or too fussy.

Rattles and creaks can taint somewhat psychologically. Strange you don't hear any road noise too as this is a widely noted characteristic of the G11.

Glad it is working out for you though.

Hi,

I am in North Wilts near Chippenham. I am fussy too, and on prior cars have had dashboards to bits inserting rubber spacers to stop trim rubbing/creaking, so know exactly what you mean, however have been very lucky on my Jags, Audi’s and my 7, as absolutely no creaks or rattles at all. Our other car is a Passat Estate with 19” wheels, and that does have some tyre roar and road noise, but my wife loved the look of the wheels when ordered, so optioned those, even though in my opinion they spoil the ride and are a pig to clean!

Cheers.

[Stormbitch]

I am back


P-Zero
Read More

275/35 R20 Y (102)


Those are my tyres.. there is about 6mil left on them maybe 5 - just drove from East London - all creaks fixed. Good old bmw

However road noise is unbearable.

I drove a 19 inch wheel 530e and send some voice notes on the way to my mates, and continued on the way back in my 7 on 20s - they all could not believe the noise.

The above tyres are supposed to be 69db - could have fooled me.

DB meter test.

VW Touareg 19s - 60mph non Run flats - 46db
Mine 54-56db - nearly 10db more.
New X5 22 inch wheels run flats - 52-54db!!!!!

Ditch the car?
Or change out for non runflats?

Still will corner badly - the anti roll is dreadful, I can see the car dip to the side.

Air suspension in G05 is better at corners, but worse for general wallow....

530e markably better at corners and noise - albeit bad inside.

[Staszek]

Originally Posted by Stormbitch

I am back


P-Zero
Read More

275/35 R20 Y (102)


Those are my tyres.. there is about 6mil left on them maybe 5 - just drove from East London - all creaks fixed. Good old bmw

However road noise is unbearable.

I drove a 19 inch wheel 530e and send some voice notes on the way to my mates, and continued on the way back in my 7 on 20s - they all could not believe the noise.

The above tyres are supposed to be 69db - could have fooled me.

DB meter test.

VW Touareg 19s - 60mph non Run flats - 46db
Mine 54-56db - nearly 10db more.
New X5 22 inch wheels run flats - 52-54db!!!!!

Ditch the car?
Or change out for non runflats?

Still will corner badly - the anti roll is dreadful, I can see the car dip to the side.

Air suspension in G05 is better at corners, but worse for general wallow....

530e markably better at corners and noise - albeit bad inside.

Change out the runflats the whole car gets better. I had 19's with junky Pirelli Grand Touring Run Flats, went to 20" Conti DWS and the car handles a lot better, still wallows though.

That being said the antiroll air suspension is not very good, I was expecting more.

I guess I was use to how the E38 road, smooth enough but handled well. Our F15 for as tall as it is handling a lot tighter than the 7.

I guess thats what these cars have become, dont get me wrong, its a great car, I dont have the noise you have, but its just not athletic. If you get the M Sport I would expect that it should handle a bit tighter.

Love the looks, love the interior, LOVE the power, not in love with the ride, it will probably be my last 7, I will be interested to see what the M8 Gran Coupe handles like.

[Stormbitch]

Got enough BMWs?

I like an opinion from someone who knows. I may even have to get an F15 now instead.

Holds money, probably less noise, cheap enough to change cause of the G05.

The run flats are 69db wont get a quieter car tyre... but maybe the numbers are bollocks and the 69db outside noise environment sends the noise into the cabin instead.

Literally drove out my house to Costa this morning and did around 1 mile. Road felt rough, noise at 30mph, even the engine is audible.

Not much other choice - which is a shame, the tyre swap out idea if that does NOT work I spent a grand on a car that might be going.

But it is tempting to try - my feeling is that the noise is coming from the windows, the general lightness of the car too. If I get any intel from the tyre forum I posted on I will post back here.

The whole thing could be the P Zero Run Flats.

[Wills2]

I've got the reverse situation at the moment I've got a 730d as my 740d xdrive has been in a bump.

The 730d is a revelation on 19" wheels it's night and day better than the 740d on 20" smoother/lighter and just rolls over bumps and potholes.

Sometimes less is more, I'm seriously considering getting a set of these wheels for mine.

[Staszek]

Originally Posted by Stormbitch

Got enough BMWs?

I like an opinion from someone who knows. I may even have to get an F15 now instead.

Holds money, probably less noise, cheap enough to change cause of the G05.

The run flats are 69db wont get a quieter car tyre... but maybe the numbers are bollocks and the 69db outside noise environment sends the noise into the cabin instead.

Literally drove out my house to Costa this morning and did around 1 mile. Road felt rough, noise at 30mph, even the engine is audible.

Not much other choice - which is a shame, the tyre swap out idea if that does NOT work I spent a grand on a car that might be going.

But it is tempting to try - my feeling is that the noise is coming from the windows, the general lightness of the car too. If I get any intel from the tyre forum I posted on I will post back here.

The whole thing could be the P Zero Run Flats.

Do you know anyone with a 7 that you could swap the rims with to see how they feel/sound? Maybe try the dealer?

[Stormbitch]

Good idea on the wheel swap - not sure how they would allow that - but worth a thought, I have spoken to a sound proofing expert today who said wheel arch deading wont work or reduce db by much.

He DID say 19 vs 20s is hugely different!!!

I am also due to pop down tyre shop let them take it out and advise me.

The Reversing thing mate is a Puma - you just need to roll it in if you are in warranty - and maybe even if you are not.

[AlteBMW]

I have Pirelli Pzero 19's with about 15,000 miles on them with none of the issues you describe. I did not go to 20s because the roads here are bad. Even with the 19s I had to have 3 rims repaired in the last year. (Insurance). If you do a swap as suggested, you might also try putting on 19s.

[Stormbitch]

hm... - been to tyre shop who said he wouldn't advise swapping run flats over on a 740d xd

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Stormbitch

hm... - been to tyre shop who said he wouldn't advise swapping run flats over on a 740d xd

Xdrive is very sensitive to the tyres the * rated RFT will be specific to the car, other tyres can cause issues with the diffs.

[tastes jigga]

I just picked up a 2019 750i xDrive with 19" A/S RFT and standard suspension. So far, it has been a very pleasant experience... no issues with noise or ride comfort.

Makes me wonder what the 18" wheels would feel like.

[ihsahne]

35 profile on my 19inch rims not suitable for me..it will bend the rims..i planned to get 45 profile..hopefully it can..