Lotus Emira vs Porsche 718 GTS 4.0

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I see both cars and wonder why one doesn't buy an F-Type V8. Big fuck off engine, looks incredible and cheaper than these two by a mile. You'd need VERY good local roads to chase the handling advantage of the Emira or GT4.

They're not even in the same category. 718 and Emira are pure sports cars. The Jag is a heavy GT with a beast of an engine. I have an F-Type SVR, it's great. But the driving experience of a 3200 lb. MR 6-cyl with a manual trans is a little different than 3800 lb. FR/AWD 8-cyl with an auto.

[slilley]

Originally Posted by Condorll

You went through a set of tires and pads in less than 11,000 miles? Yikes!

Yea, I did 5 or 6 track days (DEs) with the car - and a day at the track is probably equivalent to the wear of 5,000+ miles on the street when it comes to tires and brakes.

[ShocknAwe]

Can't imagine I'd want an emira. While I haven't driven it I'm familiar with the Toyota 3.5 SC v6. It's okay I guess. I'd rather have the CGTS4.0 especially for similar money. No contest.

[baege]

I seriously considered waiting for the Emira, but for me the uncertainty about reliability and the better engine in the porsche made the decision for me

no doubt the Emira is the better looking car to 99% of people, but the cayman ain't exactly ugly

[E90 N55]

With you there!

[BMW F22]

Thank you all for your input. Was leaning towards the Cayman as well, but the Emira is always lurking in the background tempting me.

[AmuroRay]

I used to be a HUGE Porsche fan, but the Cayman and 911 are the same cars with the engine in different places and +/- a back seat.

That, and the markup on the cars are insane. I can't imagine speading that much on a car that just isn't a practical daily driver.

Corvette or Lotus.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I used to be a HUGE Porsche fan, but the Cayman and 911 are the same cars with the engine in different places and +/- a back seat.

That, and the markup on the cars are insane. I can't imagine speading that much on a car that just isn't a practical daily driver.

Corvette or Lotus.

Lotus and Cayman GTS cost about the same. There is a markup on the loaders as well and I can get a Cayman without markup. I do, however, agree that Caymans have gotten expensive. At almost $120k the way I specced it, it might make more sense to get a used GT4 instead. These cars should not be well north of $100K IMO.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I used to be a HUGE Porsche fan, but the Cayman and 911 are the same cars with the engine in different places and +/- a back seat.

That, and the markup on the cars are insane. I can't imagine speading that much on a car that just isn't a practical daily driver.

Corvette or Lotus.

Same cars? What? They are vastly different performance cars. It would be like saying the current gen Camaro and C8 are the same cars.

A Cayman is a wildly practical daily. I drive my 2011 Cayman 90% of the time while my much faster M235 collects dust. The frunk is huge, the rear trunk is quite large, the doors have hinged storage bins, and there is a storage bin behind each seat, a cargo net and tie down bar are above the engine cover, and the there are hinged cargo rail mounts on the roof rails as well. Being mid engine means it's pretty dang good in the snow assuming it's not too deep. Name another more practical 2 seater on the market. There isn't one.

The car is easy as hell to work on as well as most everything is quite accessible and you get to sit in the carpeted trunk while working on top of the engine. The engine and trans can be dropped in a couple of hours.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Same cars? What? They are vastly different performance cars. It would be like saying the current gen Camaro and C8 are the same cars.

A Cayman is a wildly practical daily. I drive my 2011 Cayman 90% of the time while my much faster M235 collects dust. The frunk is huge, the rear trunk is quite large, the doors have hinged storage bins, and there is a storage bin behind each seat, a cargo net and tie down bar are above the engine cover, and the there are hinged cargo rail mounts on the roof rails as well. Being mid engine means it's pretty dang good in the snow assuming it's not too deep. Name another more practical 2 seater on the market. There isn't one.

The car is easy as hell to work on as well as most everything is quite accessible and you get to sit in the carpeted trunk while working on top of the engine. The engine and trans can be dropped in a couple of hours.

They are LITERERALLY the same car.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post30948788

Same Chassis, same electronics, same interior, same engines, same car with the engine position changed.

[crAbb]

I'm biased...

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

They are LITERERALLY the same car.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post30948788

Same Chassis, same electronics, same interior, same engines, same car with the engine position changed.

They are not the same chassis at all. Yes, the 986 and 987 cars did share about 40-50% of their parts with the 911s of those same generations and less so with the 981 generation.

What really set a lot of 911 buyers off in the past was because certain exterior styling and interior elements of the 986/987 cars were the same as the 911 and they were ticked off to be paying nearly twice a much for the 911. Not until 981 GT4 came out did the Cayman/Boxster get the same engine as the 911. Only the special and super expensive Cayman/Boxsters get the certain 911 motors.

Parts bin sharing isn't just a Porsche thing. It's a global thing across all makes. Subaru is probably the biggest parts bin sharing company out there.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

They are not the same chassis at all. Yes, the 986 and 987 cars did share about 40-50% of their parts with the 911s of those same generations and less so with the 981 generation.

What really set a lot of 911 buyers off in the past was because certain exterior styling and interior elements of the 986/987 cars were the same as the 911 and they were ticked off to be paying nearly twice a much for the 911. Not until 981 GT4 came out did the Cayman/Boxster get the same engine as the 911. Only the special and super expensive Cayman/Boxsters get the certain 911 motors.

Parts bin sharing isn't just a Porsche thing. It's a global thing across all makes. Subaru is probably the biggest parts bin sharing company out there.

You didn't even watch the video - it's a tear down and PN comparison - they are exactly the same care with the engine either in the midship position or the rear. The cars are about 80% the same, with the differences being cosmetic mostly.
The entire front subframe, the interior minus a few dash pieces, electronics and the entire chassis, are literally the same PN. Watch the video. tranquility

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You didn't even watch the video - it's a tear down and PN comparison - they are exactly the same care with the engine either in the midship position or the rear. The cars are about 80% the same, with the differences being cosmetic mostly.
The entire front subframe, the interior minus a few dash pieces, electronics and the entire chassis, are literally the same PN. Watch the video. tranquility

I watch his videos all the time and been for a couple years now. His videos have helped me work on my Cayman. The Cayman/Boxster and 911 are no where close 80% the same. Everything I've said is 100% true. You, not so much. LOL.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I watch his videos all the time and been for a couple years now. His videos have helped me work on my Cayman. The Cayman/Boxster and 911 are no where close 80% the same. Everything I've said is 100% true. You, not so much. LOL.

So sharing the entire chassis minus rear suspension, the dash shape and body panels = not 80% of the car. Ok buddy.

You were wrong, own up and move on.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

So sharing the entire chassis minus rear suspension, the dash shape and body panels = not 80% of the car. Ok buddy.

You were wrong, own up and move on.

The 987 gen Cayman/Boxster shared 51% of it's parts with the 997 gen 911. Much of the parts from the windshield frame forward was all 911 minus the front bumper cover and some other under panels and radiators. The doors skins (minus the Cayman R) were the same as well. The cars share the same lower dash (not upper or instrument pod), e-brake handle, shifter, and seats. Then there's things like steering wheels, HVAC, stereo, speakers, switchgear, fasteners, modules, etc. that are shared. The engines and transmissions, though they share some parts, are not the same when it comes to displacement, gearing, etc. Exhausts are way different. The wheels are not shared as the offsets are different. Interior door panels are not shared. Everything from behind the seats (inside and out) is not shared including nearly all of the suspension and none of the subframes, mounts, etc. Brakes for the most part are not shared. Obviously the body in white is entirely different as well. There are branded Audi/VW parts in my 987 Cayman too.

The 981 and 718 gens shared less with the 911s of the same generation. Very little on the outside is shared between the two models anymore. No panels, door skins, windshields, etc. are shared anymore. Otherwise, see the above. It's less than 51% now. Not until the 981 GT4 showed up did they start directly sharing motors and transmissions on certain specialty Caymans and Boxsters.

I do not know the amount of sharing between the 986 and 996 cars, but I've heard it was close to 60%.

Most any major make on the road shares a significant number of it's parts with other models. Efficiency and parts bin sharing are commonplace, especially when it comes to general chassis architecture, underpinnings, and the parts buried within a car. Our M235's have TONS of parts shared with F series cars and non-F series cars.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I used to be a HUGE Porsche fan, but the Cayman and 911 are the same cars with the engine in different places and +/- a back seat.

That, and the markup on the cars are insane.

Agreed, how many times we hear ppl say they wanted a sportscar but wanted to carry some small ppl, hence they got the 911? That's not a good reason *for me* in getting a performance car. It's like that other silly reason, 'oh I gotta fit a golfclub bag so I got a Vette!' What?! LMAO. We need to be focused on what we want in a sportscar, not for silly peripherals like cupholders, leather dashboards, wireless carplay, etc smh. Practicality for out of the window for me in this area, but conversely that's why 'performance' suvs are such hot sellers since ppl only have so much disposable income and they unrealistically want all-in-ones.

I would daresay that dude in that video I posted in another thread is more technically-inclined never mind being in that specific industry vs most of us, but I'm not really here to debate if the Cayman/Boxster is 80% or 79.9999% of the 911 lol.

I just HATE how Porsche is intentionally keeping down the superior platform just for tradition's sake. Mind you, other manufacturers are somehow idiots cuz they cannot defeat a RR platform, so kudos for Porsche for keeping the 911 relevant, but, just imagine if they actually put in all their superior engineering prowess into the MR platform?

[Alfisti]

They don't hold back engineering, all they do is nerf the HP a touch. The back seat thing is real, I am on a 997 group chat in Toronto and about 30 to 40% of members use the back seat for kiddie runs. I think some of you are confusing what the Cayman/boxster is, it's not a McLaren/Lambo/Ferrari/Vette MR style supercar. It is closer to a Miata with more HP.

The 911 battles those cars and if you made it MR it loses the back seats.

[nicholasn]

Originally Posted by baege

I seriously considered waiting for the Emira, but for me the uncertainty about reliability and the better engine in the porsche made the decision for me

no doubt the Emira is the better looking car to 99% of people, but the cayman ain't exactly ugly

Why would the Emira be unreliable? Lotus has been sourcing an extremely reliable Toyota V6 for well over a decade now, and have continually updated and refined it to fit its cars. I will grant the electronics might be iffy but mechanically the Emira should be pretty solid especially with the manual.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

They don't hold back engineering, all they do is nerf the HP a touch. The back seat thing is real, I am on a 997 group chat in Toronto and about 30 to 40% of members use the back seat for kiddie runs. I think some of you are confusing what the Cayman/boxster is, it's not a McLaren/Lambo/Ferrari/Vette MR style supercar. It is closer to a Miata with more HP.

The 911 battles those cars and if you made it MR it loses the back seats.

Agreed. I don't view the 911 as being handicapped by having back seats at all. Certain models of 911s can offer supercar performance and basic 911s are some of the best sportscars out there.

The Cayman/Boxster are legit sportscars with the engine is the exact right place. Supercars? No, but they without a doubt some of the best two seat sportscars out there and a more reliable and better put together than all of them too.

I get why people hate Porsches. It's the same reason why they hate certain college and professional teams because they are consistently good and tend to win most of the time.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by nicholasn

Why would the Emira be unreliable? Lotus has been sourcing an extremely reliable Toyota V6 for well over a decade now, and have continually updated and refined it to fit its cars. I will grant the electronics might be iffy but mechanically the Emira should be pretty solid especially with the manual.

The Toyota drivetrain is about all the Emira has going for it from a reliability standpoint. Otherwise, you're dealing with English engineering/reliability which is some of the worst out there.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

They don't hold back engineering, all they do is nerf the HP a touch. The back seat thing is real, I am on a 997 group chat in Toronto and about 30 to 40% of members use the back seat for kiddie runs. I think some of you are confusing what the Cayman/boxster is, it's not a McLaren/Lambo/Ferrari/Vette MR style supercar. It is closer to a Miata with more HP.

The 911 battles those cars and if you made it MR it loses the back seats.

Let's not get into semantics: it's holding back and it's usually calculated just enough so that the C/B doesn't outperform the Carrera, and that's frustrating. Clarkson was right, I dunno if I'd ever get over the thought that if I bought a C/B knowing they didn't maximize its potential just to keep the 911 ppl happy.

I'm not dissing those w practical reasons, just restating what I said in my previous post that the 911 would be even more amazing w/o the added wt/space of rear seats and having the engine in the right place.

Sure, it battles but if someone had that kinda budget for those first 3, I would srsly doubt they would get a 911 unless it's some limited edition. Anyway, for sure, if they got rid of the rear seats and made it a MR, it would be a...Carrera GT.

Btw, I personally refer to them all as sportscars and dislike the term 'supercar' and now, what, 'hypercar'? I think it's all silliness as it usually just means it's more $$$$.