Would this make you rethink owning a Tesla?

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The thread title is will this make you rethink buying a Tesla. Why is it specific to Tesla? Plenty of people buy dashcams, same thing just better integration on the Tesla.

<--- Has dashcams in all of our vehicles, plus a professional-grade CCTV system at home.

<--- Has the option of sharing his videos with law enforcement, if I read the 5th amendment correctly.

<--- Has made several trips to court for a home CCTV video that he voluntarily shared with the local police, for grand jury testimony, jury trial testimony, and to watch a scumbag get sentenced to 25-life for arson and murder that his CCTV cameras captured.

<--- Would never own a Ring doorbell camera, Amazon Alexa, Google anything for privacy reasons.

<--- Would never submit his DNA to 23-and-me, because duh.

<--- Walked around work for 25+ years sporting an ID badge with his photo taken wearing a full-face racing helmet, before The Stig was cool.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by David70

I believe any camera that can potentially lead to someone's arrest where the police may try to get the video, whether on your car, house or business. I don't see how Tesla or any other system, aftermarket included wouldn't have the same issue. If you don't want to be part of it you better not have a camera recording anything in public.

As to this bothering me, I can't see a time where my car video might help in having a criminal arrested where I wouldn't help with providing the video.

Well, if I happened to be the perp...

Imagining a scenario from Minority Report right now.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

I have a garage for my cars. I won't own a car that must/should be parked outside because it could spontaneously combust!

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com...ng-lot/2103770

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com...r-days/2105923

The problem here is that many vehicles have had the propensity to burn up long before current technology. I had a 98 Explorer with a flawed brake switch that was recalled for fire hazard. No one knew until it happened a few times. Then they asked us to park outside, away from buildings, until it was repaired.

We might all own such a vehicle. In the case of the Explorer, it took x-number of switch cycles before it became problematic. Unnerving.

[Gemini562]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Tell me you know nothing about Tesla's without telling me you know nothing about Tesla's.

The footage is recorded to a usb drive. Remove or never install a usb drive (depending on model year) and it doesn't record anything.

Appreciate the clarification, but I think you're missing the point. Sure, you can remove the USB drive or avoid installing one, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having the cameras, right? Most people buy Tesla for its tech features, and turning off one of the big selling points Sentry Mode, just to avoid this situation feels like a weird tradeoff.

Also, it’s not quite the same as having a regular dashcam. The integration with Tesla is next level, like being able to record everything happening around your car 24/7, even while parked, which is part of the appeal. It’s the idea that law enforcement can take your car without you even being involved in a crime that feels unsettling. I’m just saying it’s something people might not have considered when buying a Tesla.

At the end of the day, this is about privacy. Most people don’t expect their personal property to be part of an investigation unless they are directly involved. This could make people rethink how much they want their car or any tech to be constantly recording and potentially sharing information with authorities, even indirectly.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Gemini562

Appreciate the clarification, but I think you're missing the point. Sure, you can remove the USB drive or avoid installing one, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having the cameras, right? Most people buy Tesla for its tech features, and turning off one of the big selling points Sentry Mode, just to avoid this situation feels like a weird tradeoff.

Also, it’s not quite the same as having a regular dashcam. The integration with Tesla is next level, like being able to record everything happening around your car 24/7, even while parked, which is part of the appeal. It’s the idea that law enforcement can take your car without you even being involved in a crime that feels unsettling. I’m just saying it’s something people might not have considered when buying a Tesla.

At the end of the day, this is about privacy. Most people don’t expect their personal property to be part of an investigation unless they are directly involved. This could make people rethink how much they want their car or any tech to be constantly recording and potentially sharing information with authorities, even indirectly.

The point is they mention Tesla as if this was a unique thing to Tesla. Technically any car with a dashcam could also capture a crime and be used in a police investigation. Surely there’s waaaay more none Teslas with dashcams than there are Teslas. Why don’t cops take those cars? If they do why is the title that cops are towing Teslas? How many Teslas have been towed for this purpose? The entire article oozes clickbait anti Tesla bs.

As to the original question. No. It doesn’t make me rethink owning a Tesla anymore than it makes me rethink owning dashcams. If privacy were my major concern when buying a vehicle I wouldn’t own anything post 2000 and the dashcam function on the Tesla would be the LEAST of my concern.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The point is they mention Tesla as if this was a unique thing to Tesla. Technically any car with a dashcam could also capture a crime and be used in a police investigation. Surely there’s waaaay more none Teslas with dashcams than there are Teslas. Why don’t cops take those cars? If they do why is the title that cops are towing Teslas? How many Teslas have been towed for this purpose? The entire article oozes clickbait anti Tesla bs.

As to the original question. No. It doesn’t make me rethink owning a Tesla anymore than it makes me rethink owning dashcams. If privacy were my major concern when buying a vehicle I wouldn’t own anything post 2000 and the dashcam function on the Tesla would be the LEAST of my concern.

We’ve already explained this multiple times: sentry mode. You’re being purposely obtuse about this now. Aftermarket dash cams don’t typically record based on proximity movement, don’t constantly surveil the 360 degree surroundings of the motor vehicle, and typically won’t have the audio capabilities of the Tesla’s.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

We’ve already explained this multiple times: sentry mode. You’re being purposely obtuse about this now. Aftermarket dash cams don’t typically record based on proximity movement, don’t constantly surveil the 360 degree surroundings of the motor vehicle, and typically won’t have the audio capabilities of the Tesla’s.

Plenty of dashcams have the ability to monitor while parked and many have front and rear cameras, some have more. Tesla sentry mode doesn’t record audio.

So tell me this. Regular car with a dashcam that stays on while parked. Shit goes down in front on the car somewhere. Owner cannot be found. Will you tow it? Same scenario with a Tesla, will you tow it?

Also how many Teslas are ya’ll towing for this purpose every year?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Plenty of dashcams have the ability to monitor while parked and many have front and rear cameras, some have more. Tesla sentry mode doesn’t record audio.

So tell me this. Regular car with a dashcam that stays on while parked. Shit goes down in front on the car somewhere. Owner cannot be found. Will you tow it? Same scenario with a Tesla, will you tow it?

Most people don’t use aftermarket dash cams, and many who do only use front cams. Additionally, in 14+ years of responding to crashes, I haven’t come across A SINGLE driver with an aftermarket dash cam that had it active while parked (…e.g. a parking lot collision where another driver hit their parked vehicle). Conversely, I haven’t come across a single Tesla driver that didn’t use sentry mode. The Tesla’s sentry mode can/will activate with loud noises, etc.. That is what I meant by audio capabilities. The probability of obtaining footage from a Tesla is very high.

I’ve never towed/impounded a Tesla as evidence for that reason, but now that there’s precedent, I just might (…if that Tesla is part of my crime scene). That was very smart thinking on behalf of those Oakland P.D. officers.

[Gemini562]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The point is they mention Tesla as if this was a unique thing to Tesla. Technically any car with a dashcam could also capture a crime and be used in a police investigation. Surely there’s waaaay more none Teslas with dashcams than there are Teslas. Why don’t cops take those cars? If they do why is the title that cops are towing Teslas? How many Teslas have been towed for this purpose? The entire article oozes clickbait anti Tesla bs.

As to the original question. No. It doesn’t make me rethink owning a Tesla anymore than it makes me rethink owning dashcams. If privacy were my major concern when buying a vehicle I wouldn’t own anything post 2000 and the dashcam function on the Tesla would be the LEAST of my concern.

There’s a legal context to consider. For a regular car, law enforcement may not immediately know whether there’s any relevant footage at all without inspecting the car closely, whereas with a Tesla, the mere presence of the vehicle and its known surveillance features create an expectation that footage likely exists. This could be enough for law enforcement to justify towing a Tesla under the presumption that it holds valuable evidence.

It’s not just about how many Teslas are being towed every year for this purpose. The real issue is the potential for it to happen at all. It raises concerns about the future of personal privacy, especially as more tech is integrated into everyday devices. It's not about whether this happens often, but whether people are comfortable with the idea that owning tech like a Tesla could make them part of an investigation they had no involvement in. That’s a bigger shift in how we think about the relationship between technology, privacy, and law enforcement.

As for the clickbait point, sure, headlines can sensationalize things. But it’s not necessarily anti-Tesla,it’s more about the broader privacy implications of having a car that’s always recording and could be pulled into an investigation, even if the owner has nothing to do with it. It’s more of a discussion around how technology in cars is changing our expectations of privacy. Again, it’s not about how many Teslas get towed, but about how they are perceived differently because of their tech.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Gemini562

There’s a legal context to consider. For a regular car, law enforcement may not immediately know whether there’s any relevant footage at all without inspecting the car closely, whereas with a Tesla, the mere presence of the vehicle and its known surveillance features create an expectation that footage likely exists. This could be enough for law enforcement to justify towing a Tesla under the presumption that it holds valuable evidence.

It’s not just about how many Teslas are being towed every year for this purpose. The real issue is the potential for it to happen at all. It raises concerns about the future of personal privacy, especially as more tech is integrated into everyday devices. It's not about whether this happens often, but whether people are comfortable with the idea that owning tech like a Tesla could make them part of an investigation they had no involvement in. That’s a bigger shift in how we think about the relationship between technology, privacy, and law enforcement.

As for the clickbait point, sure, headlines can sensationalize things. But it’s not necessarily anti-Tesla,it’s more about the broader privacy implications of having a car that’s always recording and could be pulled into an investigation, even if the owner has nothing to do with it. It’s more of a discussion around how technology in cars is changing our expectations of privacy. Again, it’s not about how many Teslas get towed, but about how they are perceived differently because of their tech.

Well articulated post.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by nawfoo

Hopefully this gets shut down by policy makers eventually. If TSLA gets more negative comments about this happening in their own backyard they will do something to fix it. I think the story is complete horse shit. Towing a TSLA to access the cameras sounds a bit extreme. And what are you going to do with the car once its on your lot? Its like having a locked iphone. Does the Oakland police department have a master key?

I don't think the police can charge you for reckless driving because they can't prove who was behind the wheel at the time and they shouldnt be snooping around your files when they are supposed to look for something specific.

It’s not extreme at all. A magistrate approves the warrant. What that means is the affiant’s warrant presented enough articulation for the courts to agree with the legal standing. Once the vehicle information is downloaded, the vehicle is released to the registered owner (…similarly, once the black box is downloaded from a car I’ve seized as evidence, it is released to the registered owner). Tesla can also be subpoenaed to unlock the car just like GM Onstar, etc.

Also, you are wrong. People have been charged and convicted of reckless driving even via their recorded Instagram videos. That’s the blessing and the curse of this generation; they love to record everything …..chasing that social media status. A person can absolutely be convicted of reckless driving based on data gathered from the vehicle recordings. Also keep in mind that law enforcement can further strengthen the case by sending a subpoena to the cellular phone company of the registered owner as another metric to prove they were inside the vehicle. With that said, that isn’t the case in a situation like what is mentioned in the original post. It is unlikely the warrant would include anything but a specific period of time that coincided with the timeframe of the crime. Law enforcement wouldn’t be given carte blanche to all of the data. Warrants are written with specificity.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by nawfoo

Hopefully this gets shut down by policy makers eventually. If TSLA gets more negative comments about this happening in their own backyard they will do something to fix it. I think the story is complete horse shit. Towing a TSLA to access the cameras sounds a bit extreme. And what are you going to do with the car once its on your lot? Its like having a locked iphone. Does the Oakland police department have a master key?

I don't think the police can charge you for reckless driving because they can't prove who was behind the wheel at the time and they shouldnt be snooping around your files when they are supposed to look for something specific.

You may have forgotten that law enforcement can crack a locked iPhone. It is suspected that an Israeli security firm has aided with that previously. I certainly wouldn't count on Elon Musk's company running interference for anyone, despite his "stance" on such things. And would count even less on "policy makers" looking out for individual liberties.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

You may have forgotten that law enforcement can crack a locked iPhone. It is suspected that an Israeli security firm has aided with that previously. I certainly wouldn't count on Elon Musk's company running interference for anyone, despite his "stance" on such things. And would count even less on "policy makers" looking out for individual liberties.

Not much interference you can run against a court order.

[David70]

First I think the chances of my car filming a crime anywhere in the future is tiny. Next add in the chances I will have the video but don't want to share it and the odds get to be miniscule. Next question is if I were on the other side, where a crime was committed against me, there is video evidence that could help police catch the person that did it and the person won't give it up and I'm not sure which side of the issue I on.

Seems like everyone here wants to be able to hold onto the video regardless yet what if your neighbor had video on his car that would show who took one of your family members? Suddenly we would be completely against them not having to give it up?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by David70

First I think the chances of my car filming a crime anywhere in the future is tiny. Next add in the chances I will have the video but don't want to share it and the odds get to be miniscule. Next question is if I were on the other side, where a crime was committed against me, there is video evidence that could help police catch the person that did it and the person won't give it up and I'm not sure which side of the issue I on.

Seems like everyone here wants to be able to hold onto the video regardless yet what if your neighbor had video on his car that would show who took one of your family members? Suddenly we would be completely against them not having to give it up?

You make a good point. The situation always changes when it becomes personal.

[Martini11]

Originally Posted by Gemini562

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6...video-footage/

Apparently, if your Tesla is parked near a crime scene, the cops can tow it to get the footage from the cameras. They try to ask you for it first, but if you’re not around, they might just tow it with a warrant. It’s like your car turns into a mobile CCTV, and you don’t even have to be involved in the crime.

good feature on the car but shit law to give the cops that privilege

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Martini11

good feature on the car but shit law to give the cops that privilege

It’s not a privilege. It’s no different than us writing a warrant for anything else that might be relevant to solving a case (…e.g. cell phones, CCTV footage at a business, etc.).

[UncleWede]

No Tesla on the Guthrie compound, I guess?

After reviewing my personal camera, that LEO probably didn't even notice, I admitted fault in running a red light. Falker also sent me a nice ticket in the mail. Had NOTHING to do with the fact his super's daughter is the person I hit. . . .

[floridaorange]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I would rather chew tinfoil than own a Tesla.

Its not for everyone but man FSD in my model 3 performance is a really nice option.

[jaffles]

I'd have to answer yes it does influence buying a Tesla, but also extends to any new vehicle, even trucks. All this camera monitoring in the name of safety plus other marketing to me nothing but invasive with an end game of control of sorts. Creating bells for bells sake, a believe in security that often fails or used against you, and a lack of responsibility or awareness.

To have some manufacturer decipher where I look or how often I need to look forward, how many hands are on the steering wheel per second block, or decide how I should look for their definition of being alert is wrong. You don't hear any governance manipulating manufacturers towards drunk, drug, unfamiliar or underage stops for driving. Or cars stopping if a phone is performing certain applications. How about a car that only go X faster then the speed limit, or more importantly no less than 3 under the speed limit if still throttled. What about saying hey you selfish ass hole, indicate for the corner next time.

For my money when governance and law enforcement allow comers and sound in their private space then I'll be happy with it in mine. Its bad enough outside your house you are being tracked along with your phone just so they know if they have too. I joke with the wife on wearing a balaclava for my worthless data when in public, but that would be deemed offensive. And I've never had the police come around to ask me if I need help with my work, so don't understand why they ask me for help with theirs or want my car in regards in doing so.

So typically technology is used to BS customers to improve their lives, but also allows control over community. So not interested in a car that controls my life more than it already it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jaffles

I'd have to answer yes it does influence buying a Tesla, but also extends to any new vehicle, even trucks. All this camera monitoring in the name of safety plus other marketing to me nothing but invasive with an end game of control of sorts. Creating bells for bells sake, a believe in security that often fails or used against you, and a lack of responsibility or awareness.

To have some manufacturer decipher where I look or how often I need to look forward, how many hands are on the steering wheel per second block, or decide how I should look for their definition of being alert is wrong. You don't hear any governance manipulating manufacturers towards drunk, drug, unfamiliar or underage stops for driving. Or cars stopping if a phone is performing certain applications. How about a car that only go X faster then the speed limit, or more importantly no less than 3 under the speed limit if still throttled. What about saying hey you selfish ass hole, indicate for the corner next time.

For my money when governance and law enforcement allow comers and sound in their private space then I'll be happy with it in mine. Its bad enough outside your house you are being tracked along with your phone just so they know if they have too. I joke with the wife on wearing a balaclava for my worthless data when in public, but that would be deemed offensive. And I've never had the police come around to ask me if I need help with my work, so don't understand why they ask me for help with theirs or want my car in regards in doing so.

So typically technology is used to BS customers [...]

Tirade about control aside….


…as it applies to investigations, why wouldn’t you want to help law enforcement solve a case? If it were your family member, you’d want the community to help too.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by jaffles

I'd have to answer yes it does influence buying a Tesla, but also extends to any new vehicle, even trucks. All this camera monitoring in the name of safety plus other marketing to me nothing but invasive with an end game of control of sorts. Creating bells for bells sake, a believe in security that often fails or used against you, and a lack of responsibility or awareness.

To have some manufacturer decipher where I look or how often I need to look forward, how many hands are on the steering wheel per second block, or decide how I should look for their definition of being alert is wrong. You don't hear any governance manipulating manufacturers towards drunk, drug, unfamiliar or underage stops for driving. Or cars stopping if a phone is performing certain applications. How about a car that only go X faster then the speed limit, or more importantly no less than 3 under the speed limit if still throttled. What about saying hey you selfish ass hole, indicate for the corner next time.

For my money when governance and law enforcement allow comers and sound in their private space then I'll be happy with it in mine. Its bad enough outside your house you are being tracked along with your phone just so they know if they have too. I joke with the wife on wearing a balaclava for my worthless data when in public, but that would be deemed offensive. And I've never had the police come around to ask me if I need help with my work, so don't understand why they ask me for help with theirs or want my car in regards in doing so.

So typically technology is used to BS customers to improve their lives, but also allows control over community. So not interested in a car that controls my life more than it already it.

That's already in the works.