Porsche is realigning itself: "Leaner, faster and even more desirable"

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by No one

They need narrow headlights to appeal to that public.

The best selling car in China is the Geely Galaxy Xingyuan.

Check that beauty out!



Shocking that Porsche sells any cars in a county where the Xingyuan is king. Is it just me or is there a BMW X3 vibe going on here?

[chassis]

MB is no different.

*A, *B and *C cars are econogarbageboxes.

*E cars are almost passable but quality and reliability are so bad (eg electrical and transmission to name a few) they can’t be owned too far beyond the original warranty period.

Even the latest SL was poorly received.

G, S and GT are where MB puts their efforts. And they use the garbage MB parts bin which means even with premium finishes you still get biodegradable wiring harnesses, bad transmissions and capacitive switchgear that does anything but what you want it to.

Porsche specifically is a cash pump for VAG’s EV overinvestment.

[jaffles]

Maybe the Porsche CEO is onto things......

Killing time the son and I walked into a Porsche dealership. It had 6 or more staff lining the walls all hidden behind large desks with bigger desk top screens. Did they pop their head over the screen...nope.

The 50 something secretary was pleasant but honestly the whole show looked like a povo pop up having a sale, BUT nothing was cheap. 6 cars in total, 3 of which were suvs. The son sitting in a latest 911 shape completed the whole experience as underwhelming. Commenting compared to his 2010 E92 this thing lacking everything (appointments) including leg room.

We wander back to the BMW dealer. Bright, shiny, huge, 100 cars or so and a pretty little thing wanders over and askes if I want a coffee, a barista one at that. She said I'll bring it to you as we were making our way to the m section. We are not connoisseurs but left dreaming of an M3. I suggested to the lad it would go like a show of shit and you can still have the kid seat in the back and a happy wife. Just need the grades to make it all happen. We looked at Aston Martin/McLaren also and to be honest it wasn't far off Porsche.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Apparently Porsche (marketing) thinks the Cayenne and Taycan are sports cars, so it jives well with the original post.

[gblansten]

Porsche isn't going to get the Chinese market back. And that was the source of much of their profits.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Good to see you still have the fight in you. Keep polishing that Z4 Coupe, I may add on to the garage some day.

[tracksidemanner]

Originally Posted by ZTK_M240i

HELL YES. Turbo 4 from the Cayman, 6 speed manual, RWD, starting under $60k. I'd be in...

Except this car would never start at 60K. Add about 15-20K for the base and then a few options, and it's a 90K car.

[ZTK_M240i]

Originally Posted by tracksidemanner

Except this car would never start at 60K. Add about 15-20K for the base and then a few options, and it's a 90K car.

Then it wouldn't work and that wouldn't even make sense. As the Cayman starts around $75K.

This car if it happened would need to come in a nice chunk below the Cayman or what would the point be?

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by ZTK_M240i

Then it wouldn't work and that wouldn't even make sense. As the Cayman starts around $75K.

This car if it happened would need to come in a nice chunk below the Cayman or what would the point be?

So a RWD/Manual Audi? Maybe with correct engine placement behind the front axle for a change...

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

So a RWD/Manual Audi? Maybe with correct engine placement behind the front axle for a change...

With Toyota rumored to want to go independent from Subaru on the 3rd gen GR86, Porsche could donate its turbo 2.0 H4 to the Subaru BRZ to get its fun and cheap entry level sports car. It could be a Miata/Fiata like partnership, with Subaru continuing to use the NA 2.4 H4. Remember, you heard it here first!

The Porsche turbo 2.0 would solve the problem of the Subaru turbo engines by not having the turbo on the bottom. The MA2.20 has the turbo on the front (where the BRZ has plenty of room and where most aftermarket turbos go), and to clear the hood on the BRZ they can ditch the air-water intercooler and do a regular air-air FMIC. Plus the other way around swaps are fairly common (Subaru engines into older Porsches).

[tracksidemanner]

Originally Posted by ZTK_M240i

Then it wouldn't work and that wouldn't even make sense. As the Cayman starts around $75K.

This car if it happened would need to come in a nice chunk below the Cayman or what would the point be?

I am guessing the new Cayman is going to start much higher than 75k. The new base cayman will likely start 85-90 meaning 75 would be a good chunk below. Just think, even a base 4 cylinder Macan which is mean to be the entry level starts at a 65 and is easily 75-80k with options. A sports car option certainly won’t be cheaper than their entry level SUV.

[ZTK_M240i]

Originally Posted by tracksidemanner

I am guessing the new Cayman is going to start much higher than 75k. The new base cayman will likely start 85-90 meaning 75 would be a good chunk below. Just think, even a base 4 cylinder Macan which is mean to be the entry level starts at a 65 and is easily 75-80k with options. A sports car option certainly won’t be cheaper than their entry level SUV.

P cars are just getting too expensive, which is part of their problem. I would never pay $85-90k for a base 4 cylinder Cayman. I had a 2012 Cayman S that I bought new for just over $60k. A base Cayman was just over $50k at the time...so that would equate to a base price jump of about 75% in just 15 years. That would be absurd if the case.

I still want a new 911 S so bad.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by ZTK_M240i

Then it wouldn't work and that wouldn't even make sense. As the Cayman starts around $75K.

This car if it happened would need to come in a nice chunk below the Cayman or what would the point be?

The point is that they are trying to upscale their cars to higher price points, not downscale to lower price points. It looks like they are willing to sell less units of cars, but at higher prices.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

So a RWD/Manual Audi? Maybe with correct engine placement behind the front axle for a change...

You guys like to make up hypothetical cars that will never happen and with prices from 2010

[ZTK_M240i]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

With Toyota rumored to want to go independent from Subaru on the 3rd gen GR86, Porsche could donate its turbo 2.0 H4 to the Subaru BRZ to get its fun and cheap entry level sports car. It could be a Miata/Fiata like partnership, with Subaru continuing to use the NA 2.4 H4. Remember, you heard it here first!

The Porsche turbo 2.0 would solve the problem of the Subaru turbo engines by not having the turbo on the bottom. The MA2.20 has the turbo on the front (where the BRZ has plenty of room and where most aftermarket turbos go), and to clear the hood on the BRZ they can ditch the air-water intercooler and do a regular air-air FMIC. Plus the other way around swaps are fairly common (Subaru engines into older Porsches).

Very interesting...and actually would make sense. But, probably would never happen lol.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by jaffles

Maybe the Porsche CEO is onto things......

Killing time the son and I walked into a Porsche dealership. It had 6 or more staff lining the walls all hidden behind large desks with bigger desk top screens. Did they pop their head over the screen...nope.

The 50 something secretary was pleasant but honestly the whole show looked like a povo pop up having a sale, BUT nothing was cheap. 6 cars in total, 3 of which were suvs. The son sitting in a latest 911 shape completed the whole experience as underwhelming. Commenting compared to his 2010 E92 this thing lacking everything (appointments) including leg room.

We wander back to the BMW dealer. Bright, shiny, huge, 100 cars or so and a pretty little thing wanders over and askes if I want a coffee, a barista one at that. She said I'll bring it to you as we were making our way to the m section. We are not connoisseurs but left dreaming of an M3. I suggested to the lad it would go like a show of shit and you can still have the kid seat in the back and a happy wife. Just need the grades to make it all happen. We looked at Aston Martin/McLaren also and to be honest it wasn't far off Porsche.

There is a different vibe among the higher end car companies dealerships. They are probably sizing you to see if you are worth their time. Bringing a little kid with you probably doesn’t help your cause.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by RPM33

The point is that they are trying to upscale their cars to higher price points, not downscale to lower price points. It looks like they are willing to sell less units of cars, but at higher prices.

Sadly, this is true and just like their "we're all in on EV sports cars", this approach will fail epically. Stellantis and Ford have learned the hard way of overpricing themselves out of the market with SUVs, trucks, and Mustangs. Porsche is teetering on that now and it will backfire. People don't have the money they used to. What is going to start selling is car, trucks, and SUVs with fewer needless options, tech, and power.

As much as I'd love to see them introduce a new 944, it ain't happening due to the cost to design an entirely new front midship RWD chassis with the trans in the back. Automakers are all about parts bin sharing and a new 944 would have little of that. I could see snagging the Cayman Base turbo 4 and some basic engine and interior parts, but it would need an almost entirely new chassis and transaxle (or at least a modified existing transaxle). They could probably reuse some suspension and steering parts from the Cayman/911. A new 944 seems so obvious though to attract folks that want a Porsche 2+2 sports car but don't have the money for a 911. $60Kish base price, max $80K optioned price. Done.

[Equilibrandt]

Porsche is also competing against BMW in China, and BMW sells an ungodly amount of BMWs in China; so many such that it influences the design language that we end up with in the rest of the world.

They're losing their cash cow YoY: to BMW in the ICE space and BYD/Geely in the EV space, IMO.

Not to mention I've never had a positive experience at a P-car dealership. I've gotten warmer welcomes at age 30 at a retirement-age Cadillac dealership than a Porsche dealership, not to mention how great BMW treats me whenever I'm near their //M cars.

Kids here (20s, I should say) crave //Ms and M-lites, but are rarely seen in non-leased P-cars. That's Porsche's own fault, whether it be lack of inspiration of the youth, an extreme price point, or a desire to only be driven the top 1% of older owners. I sooner see kids drowning in debt to get a Urus before a stripper-spec 911.

One other little note: the P-car ordering experience feels like trying to game the Rolex market; inversely, you can walk into almost any BMW dealership down here and get an //M allocation, built to spec, at any age. You don't need a history of owning three 911s and a yearly Macan lease to get a build allocation on your preferred 911 or 918, just to get violently nickel-and-dimed for every single upgrade. Their configurator makes me nauseous. As they say, too rich for my blood, I guess.

[Bumpinjeep]

Honestly, I think one major factor is pricing. I went to the local Porsche dealer yesterday (buddy of mine wanted to look at a GT4RS that they had). Pricing on virtually all models has become astronomical and far out of line with any competitor. A base Macan with a small options sheet, was $85,000. Mind you, this is a 4 cylinder base model. The cheapest Cayenne, you know, their volume seller, that has a VW V6 under the hood, that was $111,000. Panamera's that nobody wants, $150,000. And of course, a basic 911 GTS convertible at $226,000. How are they selling these things at these prices? Honestly, I don't get it.

[kudos]

Porsche is going to learn they are not Ferrari.

[tracksidemanner]

Originally Posted by ZTK_M240i

P cars are just getting too expensive, which is part of their problem. I would never pay $85-90k for a base 4 cylinder Cayman. I had a 2012 Cayman S that I bought new for just over $60k. A base Cayman was just over $50k at the time...so that would equate to a base price jump of about 75% in just 15 years. That would be absurd if the case.

I still want a new 911 S so bad.

Yes, I agree. They're far too expensive for what they offer at this point. A base 911 has jumped about 40% in just 5 years so a Cayman jumping that much or more in 15 years isnt hard to imagine. The 998 base car will likely start at 150K and be a 170-180K car with options. Just not worth it.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by ZTK_M240i

Then it wouldn't work and that wouldn't even make sense. As the Cayman starts around $75K.

This car if it happened would need to come in a nice chunk below the Cayman or what would the point be?

The real price for a cayman or any porsche is add 50% of the base for the options that any sane person would have/need.