F1 2021: Saudi Arabian GP - Jeddah (Dec 5)

[Foghorn]

VER - soon to be killer of the day.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by ///m power-belgium

do you suffer from amnesia ?

......

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

1) Nope, the straightline trap speeds were immensely close and in the same 3-10 kph window as before (brazil & qatar), Lewis was also not the fastest in terms of trap speed so nothing abnormal here. I will post the full speed trap data again shortly. So that rocketship engine excuse is tired and old, it also means the flexiwing accusations are garbage (shows you how good your information is) as the speed deltas remain smiliar.

2) As per m5rick redbull were unphased and not worried about mercede's straight line speed here.

3) Redbull was clearly faster in the corners leading to a faster overall package as per quali showing what they could do. Yet Lewis was able to get the fastest lap with a broken front wing on the Hard compound tires, if that was max you'd be all over him saying driver difference. Guess Lewis is making the difference.

4) Yup alot of cars crashed here...

Only in sector 2 MAX was 0.2 sec. faster , the rest of the track was/is for HAM .

It Isn't HAM : That's just BS !
The Red Bull runs better heavier with a full tank .
The Merc Rocket runs better and faster the lighter the car becomes during the race , this means faster and faster .

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by HFW003

Given Max has more wins for the season, what are the odds of him taking Lewis out on the first corner at Abu Dhabi?

wait, what? that could never happen….

[GuidoK]

I also thought the outings of HAM regarding the repair of the Tecpro barriers were a bit strange.
Compaining about repairing a safety feature, just because from his car (on the track, 50cm off the ground) "the barriers looked ok"....
I mean he isn't a safety expert, he is not responsible for the safety of the track and that spot was probably the most dangerous spot on the track because it was already the 2nd time a car crashed hard in that exact same spot.
And can you imagine the media attention if another car would crash there and that Tecpro barrier was compromised and that driver would be injured?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Only in sector 2 MAX was 0.2 sec. faster , the rest of the track was/is for HAM .

It Isn't HAM : That's just BS !
The Red Bull runs better heavier with a full tank .
The Merc Rocket runs better and faster the lighter the car becomes during the race , this means faster and faster .

Right leading the race on hard compound tires with a broken front wing, setting the fastest lap and still managing to pull away from Max who is on mediums is totally easy. Especially when the mercede's only advantage is on the straights and not by much.

BTW in quali both cars run extremely low on fuel, and you saw how much faster redbull was overall during a lap.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

Right leading the race on hard compound tires with a broken front wing, setting the fastest lap and still managing to pull away from Max who is on mediums is totally easy. Especially when the mercede's only advantage is on the straights and not by much.

BTW in quali both cars run extremely low on fuel, and you saw how much faster redbull was overall during a lap.

Right . That's why MAX had to push his car beyond the limits in Q3 and hits the wall ..
MAX was Shaving walls like crazy to be faster than HAM's RocketShip !

And that's why HAM's pole lap looked so relaxed , because his RocketShip has so much more power , topspeed and pace .

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Foghorn

VER - soon to be killer of the day.

Killer driver of the day

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Right . That's why MAX had to push his car beyond the limits in Q3 and hits the wall ..
MAX was Shaving walls like crazy to be faster than HAM's RocketShip !

And that's why HAM's pole lap looked so relaxed , because his RocketShip has so much more power , topspeed and pace .

How do you know Hamilton wasn't flat out pushing it to the max, but Lewis was just better at keeping it on line? Because he knows Max is behind him and he cannot afford to not get pole, so he has to make sure he gives it his all just in case. So there's no way Lewis would have let it slide during qualifying.

Then with a broken front endplate, Lewis was still able to pull away from Max. Without an end plate the high pressure air can spill over the edge of the wing to mix with the low pressure air creating a vortex. This creates alot of drag slowing the car down and causes it to lose alot of down force as well, and since it was on one side it causes handling imbalances. So that takes alot of skill to manage.


Do I think Lewis is better in terms of raw speed vs. max? No I think they are very evenly matched. The place where Lewis is better is in terms of racecraft, because he has the ability to understand when to back off and when to fight - lose the battle to win the war. Max doesn't have that yet, maybe he never will with his agression, but that is what makes Lewis faster overall... If Lewis can win this season it will show you how good he really is.

[yco]

the race was almost in a territory that "racing" wasnt enjoyable anymore..

cutting corners and then tell on radio that they re not let us race outside of the limits of the track.. is ridiculous..

whatever telemetry will show.. its super unusual that when another car bumps into you from the rear you wont immediately hit on the throttle hard.. everything about Max is dirty..

the pass made by Max actually Lewis and Ocon had to run wide wasnt even an enjoyable one.. cause actually 2 drivers had to take avoiding action for it.. it was a kamikaze dive that looked successful cause 2 drivers compensated for it..

i want to see fair racing.. not flexing the rules to their limits or worse.. dirty tricks..

hitting the 2nd place sign on the ceremony area where they park.. leaving the stage right after receiving the trophy.. complaining on the radio that this is not F1 if they wont let him cut the chicane for overtaking.. is pure childish and a plain crybaby syndrome..

Max has talent.. but nothing else..

well done to Lewis for winning such an absurd race..

[TheBingoBalls]

Just saw the replay, it didn't show that much but from what I could see, can't really explain it - didn't look like VER just hit the brakes, he was slowing down and when HAM tried to pass, he clipped the rear. Did the live feed show more angles and go into a bit more detail?

[M5Rick]

Marko believes RB is not treated the same as Mercedes.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by yco

Max has talent.. but nothing else..

If he could lose that firey agression that he got from his Dad he could have been so much faster as a driver overall. Lets hope he can fix that, otherwise in equal machinery I think George and Charles can beat him.


Like if Max wins this season, yes he deserved it but it doesn't make him better than Hamilton overall as a driver because he made so many unwarranted mistakes where he could have won it earlier if he wasn't so agressive. He will have to improve his race iq if he wants to ensure he wins more in the future and be considered a GOAT (if he makes it that far) and not just some uber agressive (but fast) driver that got lucky his car was faster during the initial part of a season to acumulate enough points to buffer his stupid mistakes. He needs to be fast and smart enough to wrap championships, not do stupid stuff and risk the championship like he has done this season. Then it will be like taking hard work and throwing it away, that doesn't make you a good driver if you are fast but stupid.

If Lewis wins it will show an absolutely fantastic comeback from him being behind all season in a significantly slower car (until the later half of the season when mercedes finally caught up to redbull), and strategically picking when to fight and when not to fight. At that point I guess people will acknowledge him as the GOAT and not just fast because of the car...

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Marko believes RB is not treated the same as Mercedes.

He also believed mercede's more powerful engine doesn't matter at all. So he believes alot of crazy stuff.



Told you it wasn't the case, despite the small amount of power gain it will allow you to play with different aero packages without loosing too much speed. No it isn't jet mode like you guys believe it will be, but every single bit counts unlike marko saying it won't matter at all.

[Foghorn]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Killer driver of the day

Killer driver indeed , that’s where this is headed, VER will take someone’s life before he comes to his senses.

[SteveChester]

Some crazy driving again from Max and he was penalised accordingly - as per previous post.

The older and wiser driver is going to win the title.

[TheBingoBalls]

If Red Bull received the call saying they had to give back the position to HAM, they should have done the same with Mercedes informing them that Red Bull was going to give HAM back the spot. At least HAM would be aware that at any given time, Red Bull would be ceding their position on track.

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

BS !!!
HAM's Rocket PU was 0.5/0.8 sec. faster . The Merc's Rocket pace was incredible !

20 laps MAX's defence was outstanding to stay out of HAM's DRS range .
But HAM's Rocket was so much faster and MAX didn't had a chance ..

If HAM's Rocket Warp-Speed remains so fast at Yas Marina , then it's over for MAX ...
Of course it has to be driven first ...and situations can change very quickly in F1

The only answer that Red Bull has is to swap MAX's PU to be faster at Yas Marina ..
The downside is a 5 P penalty , but how it looks like to get more pace I think they have to do it anyway ..

BTW : As I said , the Jeddah track is a cars graveyard !

hey Philippe, sorry your lad had a bad day, but regarding your BTW: I hate all street courses, including Monaco (which does however have good circus value). In some parts of this Country one can attend something called a Demolition Derby. I hate those also, and for pretty much the same reasons.
anyway, good luck next week.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Foghorn

Killer driver indeed , that’s where this is headed, VER will take someone’s life before he comes to his senses.

No ones going to kill anyone lol there are too many rules and regs, too many penalties and someone else has said that Masi has to go, he's the wrong person to be running as race director.

[MontyB1]

So do we think if F1 moved back to gravel on the outside of corners than Max would still do these lunging defences or overtakes?

I’d love to see Max use his undoubted talents to race cleanly and fairly like nearly every other driver has managed. He is becoming classless in his driving with others and that’s a real shame.

The comments in this thread as so one sided one way or the other but if he just tweaked things more would like him for his talent rather than hate his lack of style.

This isn’t racing it’s dodgems sorry but he could and should be soooo much better, such a shame.

Crazy race, everyone else has their views on the other incident let’s see what the stewards say they are the ones with the data.

[F87source]

This is what Lewis had to say after the race.

"For me, I really had to try and just keep my cool out there, which was really difficult to do," Hamilton told Sky Sports. "I've raced a lot of drivers in my life, in the 28 years, I've come across a lot of different characters.

"There's a few at the top which are... yeah, over the limit. Rules kinda don't apply, or they don't think of the rules."

When asked to clarify if Verstappen fell into that category, Hamilton agreed, saying: "He's over the limit, for sure. I've avoided collision on so many occasions with the guy and I don't always mind being the one that does that, because you live to fight another day. Which I obviously did."


This is something Verstappen needs to learn, and it's the reason the title could be Hamilton's this year.

[kring]

Official announcement- it was max’s fault for the crash

Max Verstappen has been handed a 10-second penalty for causing a Turn 27 collision with Lewis Hamilton in the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, plus two penalty points.

The reason: "In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the Stewards was that the driver of car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration”

So Max did break-check Ham.

More comments from stewards: "Whilst accepting that the driver of Car 44 could have overtaken Car 33 when that car first slowed, we understand why he (and the driver of Car 33) did not wish to be the first to cross the DRS [line]. However, the sudden braking by the driver of Car 33 was determined by the Stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision and hence the standard penalty of 10 seconds for this type of incident, is imposed."