F1 2019: Italian GP - Monza (Sep 8)

[Fender150]

Great entertaining race, as a ham fan I was sort of upset at that push, but more upset about bottas lack of ability after all those fast laps

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Fender150

Great entertaining race, as a ham fan I was sort of upset at that push, but more upset about bottas lack of ability after all those fast laps

Yea, I was really surprised at how many mistakes bottas made once he pulled up to Leclerc. Really shows (per usual) how good Hamilton is at maintaining heavy pressure.

[ptack]

Vettel has definitely been off ever since he left Red Bull and it seems to be getting worse. It's most likely that he will finish the season, but another really bad drive and maybe Ferrari doesn't want him to finish if it looks like it will cost them more money in terms of the Constructor's Championship. Of course they would need a replacement on hand who they could count on doing at least a reasonable job in a car that now looks equal to the Mercedes. I doubt either party would consider it, but I thought it rather odd to see Fernando hanging around this weekend. Replace Seb with Fernando and maybe Ferrari comes out on top.

[NickyC]

Ferrari should dump Vettel at the end of the season, and give Alonso one final hurrah.

I can't believe how much Vettel has dropped off, what a decline.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

You know what I'm wondering that also, are Ferrari holding back on some of the things that Charles' car has got, i can't believe that Seb is just losing it in the driving.

They both have the same car/updates at their disposal. The "issue" is that the handling of the car suits Leclerc's driving style more than it does Vettel's. I'll have to look it up to be sure, but if I remember correctly this years Ferrari has a tendency to understeer which has contributed to Vettel's lack of pace/mistakes.

It will be interesting to see how Ferrari develop's next year's car and if they'll dial back the understeer. If they do, it would suggest they are throwing their support behind Vettel. Either way, I really like Leclerc and I think that regardless of how Ferrari develop next years car, he'll rise to challenge and adapt his driving style.

[Infamus]

great race... best so far and the Charles can drive.

I would say dont get carried away with yesterdays results... MD was down on power, it will not happen again

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by Infamus

great race... best so far and the Charles can drive.

I would say dont get carried away with yesterdays results... MD was down on power, it will not happen again

I wonder what Hamilton would have been able to achieve had he been given access to a higher engine mode earlier on in the race. He did ask for more power but Mercedes declined the request. They did give Bottas access to the higher engine mode but only on the last lap, so a little too late to make a difference.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

In any case it didn't work out for Hamilton,he's met his match in a new breed of younger Ferrari driver who after a few races knows his every move and letting Bottas take over when he tired shows that even Hamilton has a limit finishing some 30 seconds down.

Just to clarify, Hamilton finished down 30+ seconds because he made a second stop for fresh tires. Running behind Leclerc in for the entirety of his second stint really took a toll on his tires (he had blisters on the right front tire). He had a pit stop in hand over the Renault's and it was an easy decision to get the extra point for fastest lap.

That being said, it was nice to see Leclerc being aggressive and putting up a strong fight. Watching him battle Hamilton and Verstappen in the future will be very entertaining!

[M5Rick]

I thought it was just to set fastest lap on softs (red),he didn't need a fresh set specifically and did it just to haul in that extra point for the constructors. The blister on the non drive wheel wasn't such an issue.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

I thought it was just to set fastest lap on softs (red),he didn't need a fresh set specifically and did it just to haul in that extra point for the constructors. The blister on the non drive wheel wasn't such an issue.

You're right, it was just to set fastest lap. I just interpreted your previous comment to mean there was more to him finishing that far adrift, hence the clarification.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by apexit4

You're right, it was just to set fastest lap. I just interpreted your previous comment to mean there was more to him finishing that far adrift, hence the clarification.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Amazing race and easily one of the best this season! Very happy for Charles and a much deserved win. The fandom in Italy was something to see and made for the perfect race atmosphere.

I'll pile on the Vettel hate...what is going on with him? It's all in his head as he seemingly forgot how to drive. And that unsafe return to track was just scary and could have turned out very badly. Seems like a safe assumption that his seat at Ferrari will open up for next season. Ricciardo would be a great fit imo. A veteran with a good attitude and personality who could challenge Charles and also mentor him in some ways.

It seems that what partially contributed to Vettel's unsafe return to the track was his inability to clearly see who's coming from the left. Apparently the driver's are very limited to how much they can move their head in either direction when strapped into the car with the HANS device. It's been suggested he should have waited for the team to tell him when to rejoin the track safely. My guess is he was trying to limit how many places he was going to lose and hastily rejoined the track.

EDIT: I'm not so sure Vettel will be sacked/fired by Ferrari for two reasons: money and a fitting replacement. If Ferrari decide to sack Vettel, they'd most likely have to pay a large sum to terminate his contract early. And even if they were willing to do that, they would then have to pay a large sum to cover the break in the contract of another top name driver (realistically, Hamilton, Verstappen or Riccardo which all have valid contracts for next year). There's nothing stopping Ferrari bringing on another upcoming talent but a team like Ferrari needs at least one driver with a lot of experience (historically, this has been the case). And if rumor's are to be believed, Leclerc is set to receive a significant pay raise from his current $3.5 million salary for next year. It looks like the only way Vettel wont be racing for Ferrari next year is if he decides to quit on his own.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by apexit4

It seems that what partially contributed to Vettel's unsafe return to the track was his inability to clearly see who's coming from the left. Apparently the driver's are very limited to how much they can move their head in either direction when strapped into the car with the HANS device. It's been suggested he should have waited for the team to tell him when to rejoin the track safely. My guess is he was trying to limit how many places he was going to lose and hastily rejoined the track.

EDIT: I'm not so sure Vettel will be sacked/fired by Ferrari for two reasons: money and a fitting replacement. If Ferrari decide to sack Vettel, they'd most likely have to pay a large sum to terminate his contract early. And even if they were willing to do that, they would then have to pay a large sum to cover the break in the contract of another top name driver (realistically, Hamilton, Verstappen or Riccardo which all have valid contracts for next year). There's nothing stopping Ferrari bringing on another upcoming talent but a team like Ferrari needs at least one driver with a lot of experience (historically, this has been the case). And if rumor's are to be believed, Leclerc is set to receive a significant pay raise from his current $3.5 million salary for next year. It looks like the only way Vettel wont be racing for Ferrari next year is if he decides to quit on his own.

Also the ever higher side head protection on the cars plus the mounting point of the HALO. Basically his vision is blocked entirely.

VET had put himself into a tough position, damn if he waited for the marshals to signal its safe to return (which he will be almost dead last), or take a chance and hope didn't hit anyone.

In the spur of the moment, he had elected the latter and there's the consequences.

[Das BMW]

I think the real story is Ferrari finally stopped sabotaging Charles Leclercs races! Hard tires were the right decision. He should have won a long time ago if not for stupid mistakes from the team.

Great race from Charles, he earned every lap of that one. I was on the edge of my seat till the last corner. And great to see him truly happy and really enjoy it compared to Spa. Well deserved!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Das BMW

I think the real story is Ferrari finally stopped sabotaging Charles Leclercs races! Hard tires were the right decision. He should have won a long time ago if not for stupid mistakes from the team.

Great race from Charles, he earned every lap of that one. I was on the edge of my seat till the last corner. And great to see him truly happy and really enjoy it compared to Spa. Well deserved!

Ferrari finally stopped sabotaging Charles Leclercs races ?
Well . You can see me here below...

[msk340i]

Originally Posted by apexit4

It seems that what partially contributed to Vettel's unsafe return to the track was his inability to clearly see who's coming from the left. Apparently the driver's are very limited to how much they can move their head in either direction when strapped into the car with the HANS device. It's been suggested he should have waited for the team to tell him when to rejoin the track safely. My guess is he was trying to limit how many places he was going to lose and hastily rejoined the track.

EDIT: I'm not so sure Vettel will be sacked/fired by Ferrari for two reasons: money and a fitting replacement. If Ferrari decide to sack Vettel, they'd most likely have to pay a large sum to terminate his contract early. And even if they were willing to do that, they would then have to pay a large sum to cover the break in the contract of another top name driver (realistically, Hamilton, Verstappen or Riccardo which all have valid contracts for next year). There's nothing stopping Ferrari bringing on another upcoming talent but a team like Ferrari needs at least one driver with a lot of experience (historically, this has been the case). And if rumor's are to be believed, Leclerc is set to receive a significant pay raise from his current $3.5 million salary for next year. It looks like the only way Vettel wont be racing for Ferrari next year is if he decides to quit on his own.

What are you talking about? Are you just typing anything that comes to your mind just for the heck of it? Fire/sack???? Lol you made me laugh.
A few things: Italian media has always been harsh when a Ferrari driver under-performs but going through the Italian websites of some newspapers and tv channels I noticed a lot of support for Vettel. Videos from spectators changing Vettel's name after he spun were more than I thought they will be (videos from people I know personally and some other fans from the internet). Fans in front of the factory in Maranello hung flags and signs on the gates of the factory and everyone was celebrating Leclerc and Vettel.
I myself hated on Vettel yesterday but true Ferrari fans and Ferrari itself will never leave Vettel. Ferrari is a savage team but having an engineer as team principle will help Vettel keep his seat because Mattia understand Seb's driving style and understands that SF90 isn't a suitable car.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by msk340i

What are you talking about? Are you just typing anything that comes to your mind just for the heck of it? Fire/sack???? Lol you made me laugh.
A few things: Italian media has always been harsh when a Ferrari driver under-performs but going through the Italian websites of some newspapers and tv channels I noticed a lot of support for Vettel. Videos from spectators changing Vettel's name after he spun were more than I thought they will be (videos from people I know personally and some other fans from the internet). Fans in front of the factory in Maranello hung flags and signs on the gates of the factory and everyone was celebrating Leclerc and Vettel.
I myself hated on Vettel yesterday but true Ferrari fans and Ferrari itself will never leave Vettel. Ferrari is a savage team but having an engineer as team principle will help Vettel keep his seat because Mattia understand Seb's driving style and understands that SF90 isn't a suitable car.

I'm not arguing for Vettel's contract being terminated or suggesting that it's a valid option. His mistake's for the past two seasons have caused many fans to question whether he will continue racing past this year. Most recently people have been calling for him to be fired. My response was merely to point out why it wouldn't happen. These suggestions have been so persistent that a few sites have gone on to point out exactly why it wouldn't happen.

For the record, I personally think there's no reason for anyone to suggest his contract would be terminated and another driver would be found as his replacement. He may be making mistakes, but it's not as black and white as "he's just lost it". As you said, Binotto is fully aware of what the situation looks like and supports both drivers.

EDIT: People seem to forget that Vettel isn't the only reason for him losing the title the last two years. Ferrari went the wrong way on developing the car's floor two year's ago (starting at the Singapore GP) and it took them a few races to figure out thats why their pace dropped off. Then there's the issue of things like a failed spark plug that cost him a goog result at the Japanese GP and poor pit strategy at a few races.

[msk340i]

Originally Posted by apexit4

I'm not arguing for Vettel's contract being terminated or suggesting that it's a valid option. His mistake's for the past two seasons have caused many fans to question whether he will continue racing past this year. Most recently people have been calling for him to be fired. My response was merely to point out why it wouldn't happen. These suggestions have been so persistent that a few sites have gone on to point out exactly why it wouldn't happen.

For the record, I personally think there's no reason for anyone to suggest his contract would be terminated and another driver would be found as his replacement. He may be making mistakes, but it's not as black and white as "he's just lost it". As you said, Binotto is fully aware of what the situation looks like and supports both drivers.

I may have misunderstood you! Sorry! And as you said, Binotto fully supports Seb and he said a million times before, Vettel is important in developing the car and they will give him the car he needs.

A friend posted a picture she took in front of the factory, all signs of celebration removed except for a flag that said Forza Vettel.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by msk340i

I may have misunderstood you! Sorry! And as you said, Binotto fully supports Seb and he said a million times before, Vettel is important in developing the car and they will give him the car he needs.

A friend posted a picture she took in front of the factory, all signs of celebration removed except for a flag that said Forza Vettel.

No worries! The thing about forums is its hard to properly get a point across in a way that accurately reflects one's feelings. Still fun though talking about these things in detail with fellow fans

[yco]

Binotto's recent comments doesnt look like he s fully supporting Vettel.. he keeps repeating that its a shame.. and for the sacking from Ferrari part.. it is possible.. Ferrari did such things in the past.. Prost.. Prost was sacked cause he was criticizing Ferrari on public with no win year..

and for the part if Vettel seen Stroll.. even if im not a Vettel fan there is no point for him to wait and let the team guide him.. its normal that he wants to rush back in the track.. not at the beginning but when Stroll was getting closer he was in Vettel's sight in chose to keep rolling and making the gap even more narrow until the contact.. if you take a closer look to 0.07 in the video you can see it clearly.. his face clear faces towards Stroll.. the one that has no idea about the traffic was Stroll.. and he got a penalty as well.. decision was fair for him, a lighter penalty.. recent F1 cars covers around drivers head thats true ever than before.. but after some point he has seen Stroll clearly..

[msk340i]

Originally Posted by yco

Binotto's recent comments doesnt look like he s fully supporting Vettel.. he keeps repeating that its a shame.. and for the sacking from Ferrari part.. it is possible.. Ferrari did such things in the past.. Prost.. Prost was sacked cause he was criticizing Ferrari on public with no win year..

and for the part if Vettel seen Stroll.. even if im not a Vettel fan there is no point for him to wait and let the team guide him.. its normal that he wants to rush back in the track.. not at the beginning but when Stroll was getting closer he was in Vettel's sight in chose to keep rolling and making the gap even more narrow until the contact.. if you take a closer look to 0.07 in the video you can see it clearly.. his face clear faces towards Stroll.. the one that has no idea about the traffic was Stroll.. and he got a penalty as well.. decision was fair for him, a lighter penalty.. recent F1 cars covers around drivers head thats true ever than before.. but after some point he has seen Stroll clearly..

Prost wasn't just criticizing, he was talking shit about everyone from mechanics all the way too the Ferrari family. Alonso also was talking shit about the team and about Montezemolo. Vettel never did and will never criticize his dream team, that's why he won't be sacked.

Edit: Vettel and Elkann are actually buddies. Elkann and Vettel spend a lot of time together in Switzerland.

[M5Rick]

My mind is already fast forwarding to Marina Bay circuit and who will be king of the fast curves. Hamilton called for more power at Monza but that won't be the answer there.