Two-Tone Cashmere Silver / Aventurine Red 2023 BMW 7-Series spotted at the Ring

[E66er]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

You want to know one car he agrees with me 100% about, this hideous thing.

Just one/two people's opinion - let's see the sales numbers.

[Wmzorba09]

Why?

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Well, let's go back to the original comment . . .


So Mercedes has sold more cars than BMW in four of the last five years. Last year, 2021, BMW did sell more cars than Merc - about 7% more.

Losing four out of five years and winning by 7% in one year could hardly be considered "knocking the socks off their lux competition" (by any available metric, as you'd say).

You guys do know that facts matter, right?

The fact is BMW surpassed Mercedes just last year, after a long hiatus. So that matters right? Best selling premium brand in the world as of now, and it wasn't before the G models came out. Doesn't that matter? Facts matter, right?
Also, I want to point out to the fact that, all current BMW models are critically acclaimed, and winning all comparisons left and right. ix, G20, G30, G80, G01, G07, all winners. It wasn't like that 5-6 years ago, when I had my F82 which was probably the most disappointing BMW I ever had in retrospect.

I'd say 2014-2019 were kinda the dark years for BMW. Worst M3, M5, 3, 5 (relative to their times) came around those years.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by NewQ

I agree with previous poster. I'm laughing at the people on here decrying the design, the majority of whom couldn't afford it, and a significant minority could afford it, but don't buy cars like this (they like sports cars, etc.).

The point is, this car probably isn't for you, for one of those two reasons. It's not designed to appeal to you, so the fact that it doesn't, is not evidence of BMW's failure.

There's also a strong whiff of "back in my day" on here too, which can be summed up as "everything good ended after I exited my 20s".

There's always a lot of old men yelling at clouds. I'm not asking for BMW to stand still. I think they can both push the envelope and make a car that is more broadly attractive. Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, etc. have no problem doing it. Even the Bangle designs were not like these. Beauty is subjective, but these are bordering on purposely uglified. I'm not a G80 grille hater either.

The 7 has the oldest and most conservative customer base. I'm not sure this is a winning strategy for this segment. I have no doubt it's an awesome car, but I predict Mercedes is going to sell a ton more S classes, unfortunately.

[E66er]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

The fact is BMW surpassed Mercedes just last year, after a long hiatus. So that matters right? Best selling premium brand in the world as of now, and it wasn't before the G models came out. Doesn't that matter? Facts matter, right?

I'd say 2014-2019 were kinda the dark years for BMW. Worst M3, M5, 3, 5 (relative to their times) came around those years.

And what other period did BMW overtake Mercedes?

"During the Bangle era, BMW overtook Mercedes as the global leader in premium car sales." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Bangle

It makes good business sense for BMW to go bold in design.

[KK22]

Originally Posted by E66er

Just one/two people's opinion - let's see the sales numbers.

This actually looks amazing IMO.

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by 10"

finally I can upgrade my princess!

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by M3Dreams

Anybody with taste and history with BMW design will look at this abomination and puke their guts out. What has happened to BMW. Tsk tsk. This is what a beautiful 7 series used to look like:

[IMG]https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/imag...85eddb86c.jpeg[/IMG]

One of the best looking luxury cars of the last few decades for sure!

[Sublime00]

Hey guys, make sure you don't have an opinion on the next Ferrari design.

Or better yet, the BMW 3.0 CSL homage. Since, according to this thread, you should only have an opinion if you're in a position to buy it.

[NewQ]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I don't think the people that can afford them don't either. Those living paycheck to paycheck on credit do. But that's what they do, the old "can't afford it" when you have no argument. That's what losers do. They are hilarious.

I'll leave myself out of this argument, but I'll use a friend, who happens to be a billionaire. Even a Buggati Noir would be pocket change for him. You want to know one car he agrees with me 100% about, this hideous thing.

What he drives most is his 2022 Range Rover, which I agree is a beautiful, modern piece of art. Not for me, but a beautiful vehicle inside and out.

...if you say so...

[NewQ]

Originally Posted by chris719

There's always a lot of old men yelling at clouds. I'm not asking for BMW to stand still. I think they can both push the envelope and make a car that is more broadly attractive. Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, etc. have no problem doing it. Even the Bangle designs were not like these. Beauty is subjective, but these are bordering on purposely uglified. I'm not a G80 grille hater either.

The 7 has the oldest and most conservative customer base. I'm not sure this is a winning strategy for this segment. I have no doubt it's an awesome car, but I predict Mercedes is going to sell a ton more S classes, unfortunately.

That's a good point, you might be right. Is BMW in a tough position whereby they have to do either imposing/aggressive OR conservative/understated, because they can't do both for fear of losing brand identity and stepping on Rolls-Royce toes?

[NewQ]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

Hey guys, make sure you don't have an opinion on the next Ferrari design.

Or better yet, the BMW 3.0 CSL homage. Since, according to this thread, you should only have an opinion if you're in a position to buy it.

Anyone can have an opinion, but it's like saying Paw Patrol lacks plot development. It's not for you, so your opinion has to be contextualized.

Totally unrelated, what's with the circa-1998 emoji library on here?

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by NewQ

Anyone can have an opinion, but it's like saying Paw Patrol lacks plot development. It's not for you, so your opinion has to be contextualized.

Totally unrelated, what's with the circa-1998 emoji library on here?

It's an enthusiast forum regarding a post featured on the main landing page of a website called bimmerpost, I don't think opinions need any more or less context than that.

If you don't like an opinion that's totally cool, but to say one person's opinion carries less weight than someone else's bc they can't "afford" the car is weird on multiple levels, not the least of which is the assumption that those who dislike the design can't buy the car.

IMO a strange way to distill someone's opinion regarding something as subjective as car design.

[OSee]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

I don't think the people that can afford them don't either. Those living paycheck to paycheck on credit do. But that's what they do, the old "can't afford it" when you have no argument. That's what losers do. They are hilarious.

I'll leave myself out of this argument, but I'll use a friend, who happens to be a billionaire. Even a Buggati Noir would be pocket change for him. You want to know one car he agrees with me 100% about, this hideous thing.

Being ultra wealthy doesn't mean you have good taste. There's little to no correlation. Discerning eyes come with awareness, and perception/taste formed through experiences. Not money.

Of course it's easy to just buy whatever Tom Ford is cranking out and look good. Since you can afford it. But strip away labels from brands and their opinions are no better than a poorer person who so happens to admire Tom Ford clothing. They'd be absolutely lost. Just visit a bubble like Newport Beach and watch all of the ultra wealthy guys rocking Tommy Bahama for no other reason than other rich guys wear it too. Is your friend rocking Tommy Bahama to his appointment at Bugatti in France? LOL I wouldn't trust those guys to pick out a bicycle for me. Let alone a sub $250,000k car.

Same applies to cars. Otherwise none of us would have grown up with Porsche 911 and Countach posters in our room. I didn't need a billionaire to tell me to do that.


I'd venture to say that 99.999999999% of all of Bimmerpost users put's 0kg/0g/0mg/0lb/0oz of weight behind your friends opinion.

[OSee]

Originally Posted by E66er

Just one/two people's opinion - let's see the sales numbers.

We all saw what happened once record breaking G80/G82 sales numbers were released.

The goal posts were moved.

This thing will 'grow on' some people but for the vast majority of haters if it doesn't look and feel like a nimble e38 loaded with G11 levels of luxury they are going to hate it.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by NewQ

That's a good point, you might be right. Is BMW in a tough position whereby they have to do either imposing/aggressive OR conservative/understated, because they can't do both for fear of losing brand identity and stepping on Rolls-Royce toes?

Could be. I just think they could make a more attractive front-end and still be aggressive. Instead it feels like they are purposely trying to make it a conversation piece.

[E66er]

Originally Posted by OSee

We all saw what happened once record breaking G80/G82 sales numbers were released.

The goal posts were moved.

or...they blame the chinese for buying luxury cars and ruining BMW..

[BigHunk]

Bmw design team is getting worse with every new model.

[BigSky702]

No!!! Just no!!

BMW what the $&@#! is wrong with you?!?!

[bmr760]

Big ol beast, love it.

[AR_Motorwerkz]

Originally Posted by BigHunk

Bmw design team is getting worse with every new model.

I agree. Plus the subscription for some features. I wonder if they can also place subscription fees everytime your turbo boosts. hahaha

[AlteBMW]

I understand why some people don't like it. I'm not thrilled at the front end. But I tested a S Class yesterday, and while it is a very nice car, it drives like a VERY large car, while my existing '20 750 with 4 wheel steering drives like a much smaller car. I would say the MB is simply less nimble (though the one I drove did not the MB version of all wheel steering). MB interior is nice, electronics improved (from my wifes '20 E wagon which is awful). I was so much more comfortable getting back into my G12 for the drive home. So when my lease is up later this year, I will go into a 760. When exactly that will happen is anybody's guess. If all you haters out there just don't get one because you think its too ugly, that will help out on tamping down demand, which is good for those of us who still want one.