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      05-03-2022, 05:02 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Oh, that's a whole other issue, isn't it. Currently, EVs are giving back very little if anything for road usage. States and the Fed are going to need to figure this out quickly. Especially in areas like here in Austin and coastal CA where EVs are everywhere.
In Washington State there is an EV charge on the license tab fee of $250 per year to account for not paying gas tax. it's roughly equivalent to a gas car that gets 25 mpg driving 12000 miles on the state gas tax of 49 cents per mile. Suspect other states will follow.
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      05-03-2022, 06:21 PM   #68
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Doug Demuro has a new video regarding the EV M50.
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      05-03-2022, 09:32 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
90% of the world's private ground transportation is fueled by petroleum. 100% of air travel is fueled by petroleum. 60% of electric public transportation is fueled by coal + natural gas.

Thems are HUGE numbers to swing to non-carbon fuel sources. It's not going to change anytime soon.
Add 100% of the world's non-military sea transport fueled by petroleum (bunker).
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      05-03-2022, 11:51 PM   #70
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And oh by the way who is going to pay for all of this public charging wattage, assuming the infrastructure is built? The days of free EV recharging are not going to last forever. TBH the free (to me) energy is one of the biggest draws of an EV for me presently.
Mexico will pay for it.
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      05-04-2022, 08:35 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
When the government starts outright banning vehicles, the already incredibly small demographic of enthusiast car buyers will be even less relevant to car manufacturers.
You mean we are relevant in any form as it is already?

There's been significant talk of banning ICE cars in all forms of government, Canadian PM has said he is banning ICE sale as of 2035, but that's at least 3 election cycles away. Power shifts, government priorities change, global power dynamics is fluid.

I can imagine there maybe movement to add taxes to ICE car sales at some point to shift some consumer behavior, but outright banning ICE sales in the foreseeable future will likely be limited to the very few countries that do have the infrastructures, the political leaning, the population mentality and the drive to actually make it happen (ie. Holland)

For those of us here, the day of banning ICE vehicle sales will likely be when we are all sitting in a senior home waxing lyrically about the sound of a Ferrari V8, or the chug of a LS, or the scream of a Rotary to our grandchildren
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      05-04-2022, 08:44 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by auburnf30x View Post
Surprised I haven't seen more posts here regarding this...

I want something I enjoy driving because I love to drive. And yeah, I've been in the Teslas. I know they are quick, and handle well. But they are completely devoid of any driving character.
The sad reality is, at least here in America, the overwhelming majority of folks couldn't care less about these things. 99% of people have a car to get to and from work/school/grocery stores etc, it's merely a tool. If that tool will make their commute easier or save them money or even "help the planet" then they will swing it. No one except us "enthusiasts" care about power, sound, feel, rowing gears; and manufacturers don't care about us. For every 1 "enthusiast" there are 100 normies who will buy whatever fits their budget.
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      05-04-2022, 09:11 AM   #73
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The determining factor will be the price of gas, once the numbers add up, folks with access to charging will go EV. If the numbers don't add up, they won't.
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      05-04-2022, 09:38 AM   #74
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So my wife and I are considering moving to a Pick up truck, looked at Ram a few days ago, took one for a test drive and were impressed. Not sure if we will buy new or used yet as we are still trying to figure out what exactly we want. We live in the country now and are finding our little GLK to not meet our needs, as we are both retired now we are also thinking about pulling a 30ish foot trailer to Florida for the cold months so need a tow vehicle. Price for what we want is about $70K CAD. I thought for shits and giggles I'd look at the Ford F-150 Lightning. Just did an online build. So the entry level XLT with an extended range battery and not many other options comes in at $86K + tax etc.

The range is stated at 340 miles, (270 miles for basic battery). Of course that will be reduced in cold weather or pulling a 10,000 lb trailer.

We often drive to see family in the GTA, the range on this thing will get us one way and not back. My sister in law lives in an apartment building with no charging so I'd have to find a place to plug it in overnight.

This might appeal to contractors who have short drives to job sights but for me I just don't see it at all. I have to wonder what the range will be pulling a trailer. What's my trip to Florida look like, and then I have to find places to plug in on the way.

Maybe I have it all wrong, but I just don't see it.
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      05-04-2022, 09:46 AM   #75
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Yeah it's not gonna work for your needs, a hybrid would be a better idea but you don't gain much on the freeway. Surely cheaper to just rent a trailer in Florida no? seems a massive pain in the arse to own, maintain and cart that fucker around.
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      05-04-2022, 10:03 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Yeah it's not gonna work for your needs, a hybrid would be a better idea but you don't gain much on the freeway. Surely cheaper to just rent a trailer in Florida no? seems a massive pain in the arse to own, maintain and cart that fucker around.
The cost to rent anything now is through the roof. Our original plan was to Air BNB it, but a 3 month rental went through the roof.
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      05-04-2022, 11:06 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
So my wife and I are considering moving to a Pick up truck, looked at Ram a few days ago, took one for a test drive and were impressed. Not sure if we will buy new or used yet as we are still trying to figure out what exactly we want. We live in the country now and are finding our little GLK to not meet our needs, as we are both retired now we are also thinking about pulling a 30ish foot trailer to Florida for the cold months so need a tow vehicle. Price for what we want is about $70K CAD. I thought for shits and giggles I'd look at the Ford F-150 Lightning. Just did an online build. So the entry level XLT with an extended range battery and not many other options comes in at $86K + tax etc.

The range is stated at 340 miles, (270 miles for basic battery). Of course that will be reduced in cold weather or pulling a 10,000 lb trailer.

We often drive to see family in the GTA, the range on this thing will get us one way and not back. My sister in law lives in an apartment building with no charging so I'd have to find a place to plug it in overnight.

This might appeal to contractors who have short drives to job sights but for me I just don't see it at all. I have to wonder what the range will be pulling a trailer. What's my trip to Florida look like, and then I have to find places to plug in on the way.

Maybe I have it all wrong, but I just don't see it.
While I loved my model 3 and my F150 I personally have no desire for an electric truck. Maybe if you own a truck just for the occasional home depot run then it's fine, but cross country RV towing.... not gonna happen. Again, right tool for the job. Most chargers I've seen are back in and big enough for a car... so now you have to unhitch your trailer everytime you need to charge? Also I have not seen any testing on the EV trucks, but I did see a test where they towed with the Model X whatever it's stated towing capacity was and that shit dropped the range by like 50%.

I love RVing and if I could only have 1 vehicle it would probably be an F150, however it's not going to be an EV right now. Look into the new F150 hybrid, it has a sweet onboard "generator" feature which is super handy when RVing. Also if you plan to find campgrounds in FL for the winter... hopefully you have already booked them for 2023.
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      05-04-2022, 01:49 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyriian View Post
You mean we are relevant in any form as it is already?

There's been significant talk of banning ICE cars in all forms of government, Canadian PM has said he is banning ICE sale as of 2035, but that's at least 3 election cycles away. Power shifts, government priorities change, global power dynamics is fluid.

I can imagine there maybe movement to add taxes to ICE car sales at some point to shift some consumer behavior, but outright banning ICE sales in the foreseeable future will likely be limited to the very few countries that do have the infrastructures, the political leaning, the population mentality and the drive to actually make it happen (ie. Holland)

For those of us here, the day of banning ICE vehicle sales will likely be when we are all sitting in a senior home waxing lyrically about the sound of a Ferrari V8, or the chug of a LS, or the scream of a Rotary to our grandchildren
I posted this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here.

EVs are a stepping stone to eliminating most private transportation. First it's EVs, then autonomous vehicles, then no more privately owned cars (that you can actually drive on the public roads), be they EV or ICE. I'm not saying this is actually going to work, but its the plan. It's not publicized, but those in the know can see the writing on the wall. The only way we're going to reach emission and green house gas targets is if we cut down on the things doing the polluting (everyone has started to realize that first world countries are the only ones that will have the ability to make these drastic changes - India, most of Africa, Mexico and South America do not have the capital or infrastructure to do it in time). Private vehicles have a big target on their back because OEMs and the politicians they have in their pockets can get rich off replacing current ICE offerings with EVs and still look "green". OEMs know that EVs are less costly to maintain, so how are they going to keep their profits when there's less maintenance appointments at the dealers? Subscriptions for features (heated seats, lane-keep assist, etc.). Once the last ICE cars are taken off the road (be it by outright bans or taxation/fees that make it cost prohibitive to drive them), OEMs will start diversifying (many already have - GM and Ford with their electric delivery vans for FedEx and Amazon) by supplying EVs for commercial use, all while the government will announce emission goals are still not being met. Cue AVs and mass ride sharing. "Your" car picks you up at your house and takes you the store. While you shop, it serves as an Uber for someone else, then it comes back and picks you up and takes you home. Rinse and repeat.
Will all of this actually happen? Who knows. Most on this forum will probably be dead by the time we get to the final phase, but regardless, this is the path most governments and OEMs are headed down. I just hope I never live to see it.
As Conissah pointed out, the majority of car buyers today do not care about the driving experience and treat vehicles only as a means to an end (transportation). Many of the future generation (read: customers) do not even care to own a car or have a license (for many, it's financially prohibitive - a whole 'nother discussion). This plan is made to cater to them and still make everyone (OEMs, politicians A.K.A lobbyists) money while staying within the restrictions governments are going to start rolling out in the next 5-10 years.

To the point of Efthreeoh , I don't think military equipment and large commercial industries will every get off petroleum, because...well, physics. Certainly not in the next 40-50 years, at least. Which is a shame, because if we could find a way to make large ships and barges, semis, air carriers and trains carbon neutral, we could all keep our ICE cars. But that'll never happen.
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      05-04-2022, 01:56 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
I posted this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here.

EVs are a stepping stone to eliminating most private transportation. First it's EVs, then autonomous vehicles, then no more privately owned cars (that you can actually drive on the public roads), be they EV or ICE. I'm not saying this is actually going to work, but its the plan. It's not publicized, but those in the know can see the writing on the wall. The only way we're going to reach emission and green house gas targets is if we cut down on the things doing the polluting (everyone has started to realize that first world countries are the only ones that will have the ability to make these drastic changes - India, most of Africa, Mexico and South America do not have the capital or infrastructure to do it in time). Private vehicles have a big target on their back because OEMs and the politicians they have in their pockets can get rich off replacing current ICE offerings with EVs and still look "green". OEMs know that EVs are less costly to maintain, so how are they going to keep their profits when there's less maintenance appointments at the dealers? Subscriptions for features (heated seats, lane-keep assist, etc.). Once the last ICE cars are taken off the road (be it by outright bans or taxation/fees that make it cost prohibitive to drive them), OEMs will start diversifying (many already have - GM and Ford with their electric delivery vans for FedEx and Amazon) by supplying EVs for commercial use, all while the government will announce emission goals are still not being met. Cue AVs and mass ride sharing. "Your" car picks you up at your house and takes you the store. While you shop, it serves as an Uber for someone else, then it comes back and picks you up and takes you home. Rinse and repeat.
Will all of this actually happen? Who knows. Most on this forum will probably be dead by the time we get to the final phase, but regardless, this is the path most governments and OEMs are headed down. I just hope I never live to see it.
As Conissah pointed out, the majority of car buyers today do not care about the driving experience and treat vehicles only as a means to an end (transportation). Many of the future generation (read: customers) do not even care to own a car or have a license (for many, it's financially prohibitive - a whole 'nother discussion). This plan is made to cater to them and still make everyone (OEMs, politicians A.K.A lobbyists) money while staying within the restrictions governments are going to start rolling out in the next 5-10 years.

To the point of Efthreeoh , I don't think military equipment and large commercial industries will every get off petroleum, because...well, physics. Certainly not in the next 40-50 years, at least. Which is a shame, because if we could find a way to make large ships and barges, semis, air carriers and trains carbon neutral, we could all keep our ICE cars. But that'll never happen.
This may be the endgame, but who has a crystal ball. The US and Canada geographically don't really work with this theory. I have a 20 min drive to the closest grocery store. Not sure how not having "personal transportation" would work for so many people. Having said that I don't see this shift happening in my life time.
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      05-04-2022, 02:08 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
This may be the endgame, but who has a crystal ball. The US and Canada geographically don't really work with this theory. I have a 20 min drive to the closest grocery store. Not sure how not having "personal transportation" would work for so many people. Having said that I don't see this shift happening in my life time.
I totally agree, it doesn't add up. But when has that ever stopped governments or corporations

Last edited by Cos270; 05-04-2022 at 02:19 PM..
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      05-04-2022, 03:44 PM   #81
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Which again, is why i see a roughly 30/30/30 future.
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      05-04-2022, 03:53 PM   #82
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This is the point. Most of the carbon haters are urban dwellers with a comfortable lifestyle and an internet connection. They are so comfortable that they start to worry about shit that real normal people don't. If you believe the internet, it says 59.5% percent of the world's population has internet access. I'm not sure I trust that number, but it means 40% of the world doesn't. 99% of that 40 percent are scrappin' for food and water and don't have a concept of globalwarmingclimatechange. 50% of the other 60 percent don't give a shit about climate.

Living rural, one understands life better. Charging infrastructure is not economically viable because the population density doesn't support the cost. If you want green, people in cities need to stop reproducing. Lol.
(Emphasis mine)

I think that's why you're starting to see/hear such drastic measures being taken. The more people there are, the harder it is to reduce emissions. You can't just stop people from reproducing.
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      05-04-2022, 09:37 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
(Emphasis mine)

I think that's why you're starting to see/hear such drastic measures being taken. The more people there are, the harder it is to reduce emissions. You can't just stop people from reproducing.
China did.
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      05-05-2022, 07:50 AM   #84
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China did.
Slippery slope there... they are paying the price of that now with a shrinking work force
Let's be honest, the ever increasing child care, living, housing cost is already doing it on its own
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      05-05-2022, 11:29 AM   #85
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Saw a Tesla on a breakdown low loader today, asked the driver about it and he said the whole thing just switched off and it was half charged
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      05-05-2022, 12:09 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
I posted this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here.

EVs are a stepping stone to eliminating most private transportation. First it's EVs, then autonomous vehicles, then no more privately owned cars (that you can actually drive on the public roads), be they EV or ICE. I'm not saying this is actually going to work, but its the plan. It's not publicized, but those in the know can see the writing on the wall. The only way we're going to reach emission and green house gas targets is if we cut down on the things doing the polluting (everyone has started to realize that first world countries are the only ones that will have the ability to make these drastic changes - India, most of Africa, Mexico and South America do not have the capital or infrastructure to do it in time). Private vehicles have a big target on their back because OEMs and the politicians they have in their pockets can get rich off replacing current ICE offerings with EVs and still look "green". OEMs know that EVs are less costly to maintain, so how are they going to keep their profits when there's less maintenance appointments at the dealers? Subscriptions for features (heated seats, lane-keep assist, etc.). Once the last ICE cars are taken off the road (be it by outright bans or taxation/fees that make it cost prohibitive to drive them), OEMs will start diversifying (many already have - GM and Ford with their electric delivery vans for FedEx and Amazon) by supplying EVs for commercial use, all while the government will announce emission goals are still not being met. Cue AVs and mass ride sharing. "Your" car picks you up at your house and takes you the store. While you shop, it serves as an Uber for someone else, then it comes back and picks you up and takes you home. Rinse and repeat.
Will all of this actually happen? Who knows. Most on this forum will probably be dead by the time we get to the final phase, but regardless, this is the path most governments and OEMs are headed down. I just hope I never live to see it.
As Conissah pointed out, the majority of car buyers today do not care about the driving experience and treat vehicles only as a means to an end (transportation). Many of the future generation (read: customers) do not even care to own a car or have a license (for many, it's financially prohibitive - a whole 'nother discussion). This plan is made to cater to them and still make everyone (OEMs, politicians A.K.A lobbyists) money while staying within the restrictions governments are going to start rolling out in the next 5-10 years.

To the point of Efthreeoh , I don't think military equipment and large commercial industries will every get off petroleum, because...well, physics. Certainly not in the next 40-50 years, at least. Which is a shame, because if we could find a way to make large ships and barges, semis, air carriers and trains carbon neutral, we could all keep our ICE cars. But that'll never happen.
Don’t even get me stated on the chemtrails…
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      05-05-2022, 12:16 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Saw a Tesla on a breakdown low loader today, asked the driver about it and he said the whole thing just switched off and it was half charged
Ok. Your point? I'm not an EV fan at all. On a normal week around me, I see ICE cars getting towed and on the side of the highways all the time. Everything breaks.
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      05-05-2022, 12:24 PM   #88
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We are going full EVs. I have a Mustang Mach-E GT and it's absolutely brilliant. I start every day with a full charge, it goes like snot and has all the amenities I could want.

We will be trading in the M40i on an EV6 next, towards the end of the month or beginning of June.

I installed solar last year so I'm ready to commit.

I've had the GT since October and have yet to need to charge anywhere but home. No range anxiety for my use case.
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