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      11-09-2023, 12:14 PM   #23
chris719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
X-ices are nowhere close to as good as Nokians, Blizzaks, and several others.
False. You can go look at instrumented tests, they are all practically within margin of error. They also drive better in all other conditions. They are in the same category. Again, he's putting them on a Z4. JFC

I would actually never put any of these tires on a Z4, personally. I would stop at the Pilot Alpin / "performance winter" type of tire. Any of the tires from the X-Ice's studless category will move a Z4 up to its ground clearance.
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      11-09-2023, 12:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I would actually never put any of these tires on a Z4, personally. I would stop at the Pilot Alpin / "performance winter" type of tire. Any of the tires from the X-Ice's studless category will move a Z4 up to its ground clearance.
I have tried 3 "performance" winter tyres and all three were terrible once tread wore down after a season or two.
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      11-09-2023, 12:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
False. You can go look at instrumented tests, they are all practically within margin of error. They also drive better in all other conditions. They are in the same category. Again, he's putting them on a Z4. JFC

I would actually never put any of these tires on a Z4, personally. I would stop at the Pilot Alpin / "performance winter" type of tire. Any of the tires from the X-Ice's studless category will move a Z4 up to its ground clearance.
Why put performance tires if safety is the priority? My understanding is "performance winter" tires will offer less braking and less traction in winter snowy/ice conditions, they sacrifice that so you can drive and have a more sporty feeling handling right? But why would you want to drive sporty in those conditions.

As for ground clearance I drive my car even though there is snow above bottom of my bumper, I act like a snowplow lol on some mornings when the plow didn't have time to pass. A bit of snow won't stop us Canadians

Last edited by TheMidnightNarwhal; 11-09-2023 at 01:06 PM..
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      11-09-2023, 01:34 PM   #26
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Kal Tire has exclusive Nokian in Canada. Have had nothing but excellent service from them.
Nokian also has a sub brand that sells an older tread pattern that’s considerably less expensive.
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      11-09-2023, 01:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
False. You can go look at instrumented tests, they are all practically within margin of error. They also drive better in all other conditions. They are in the same category. Again, he's putting them on a Z4. JFC

I would actually never put any of these tires on a Z4, personally. I would stop at the Pilot Alpin / "performance winter" type of tire. Any of the tires from the X-Ice's studless category will move a Z4 up to its ground clearance.
Are you one of these nerds who thinks that Michelin is the only tire brand in existence? There are better tires out there bud. JFC
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      11-09-2023, 01:54 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
Are you one of these nerds who thinks that Michelin is the only tire brand in existence? There are better tires out there bud. JFC
No, I'm not a moron and I can read test data though.
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      11-09-2023, 01:55 PM   #29
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I have tried 3 "performance" winter tyres and all three were terrible once tread wore down after a season or two.
Yes, that is true.
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      11-09-2023, 01:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
Why put performance tires if safety is the priority? My understanding is "performance winter" tires will offer less braking and less traction in winter snowy/ice conditions, they sacrifice that so you can drive and have a more sporty feeling handling right? But why would you want to drive sporty in those conditions.

As for ground clearance I drive my car even though there is snow above bottom of my bumper, I act like a snowplow lol on some mornings when the plow didn't have time to pass. A bit of snow won't stop us Canadians
Because the regular snows perform worse in every other condition except snow. I guess I don't even quite understand the reasoning to use a Z4 as an only car in Canadian winters. If you use the performance winters you can pick and choose your days to drive it and then not suffer in the wet and dry.
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      11-09-2023, 02:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Because the regular snows perform worse in every other condition except snow. I guess I don't even quite understand the reasoning to use a Z4 as an only car in Canadian winters. If you use the performance winters you can pick and choose your days to drive it and then not suffer in the wet and dry.
Ahh I do see your reasoning. For sure if you had a non daily driver that you still want to drive sporty when you can, get those. But when we need to go to work or somewhere and the roads are unplowed having proper winter tires is the better choice for OP IMO. And I'm sure the performance in the wet and dry isn't anything that's going to be so terrible to the point it affects the safety of your driving.
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      11-09-2023, 04:43 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Because the regular snows perform worse in every other condition except snow. I guess I don't even quite understand the reasoning to use a Z4 as an only car in Canadian winters. If you use the performance winters you can pick and choose your days to drive it and then not suffer in the wet and dry.
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Quebec is COLD man, like properly cold. Even if dry it's a bugger of a thing to deal with, just bolt on a decent set of winters because he could go two weeks of heavy snow/slush/minus billion degrees and be screwed on "performance" tyres that die after the first season.
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      11-09-2023, 04:52 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Quebec is COLD man, like properly cold. Even if dry it's a bugger of a thing to deal with, just bolt on a decent set of winters because he could go two weeks of heavy snow/slush/minus billion degrees and be screwed on "performance" tyres that die after the first season.
It is fact, not opinion, that performance winter tires outperform normal snows in all conditions except snow and ice. This includes cold and dry. The glass transition temperature is the dry issue with summer tires, it is not remotely an issue with "performance winters". If you spend all your time driving on snow and ice then sure, get the regular snows.
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      11-09-2023, 05:02 PM   #34
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It's minimal gain for high risk though, I tried them and yeah they feel better in the dry, sure, but not life changing. Then it snows or there's ice about and there's no fucking grip.
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      11-09-2023, 05:56 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I guess I don't even quite understand the reasoning to use a Z4 as an only car in Canadian winters. If you use the performance winters you can pick and choose your days to drive it and then not suffer in the wet and dry.
...cuz I'm condo 4 life and it's my only car (it was the best one for me when I was shopping way back: 3 series--->S4--->TTS--->Cayman--->Z4). Tbh, it is a great all-rounder for just the wife and I. The trunk is surprisingly very useful and it's an awesome sports GT. Through 13 yrs so far I've only been stuck in snow only a handful of times (and many of those were due to my boneheaded moves, e.g. trying to cross a freshly-created snowbank where even a Bronco may have failed LOL, going onto the (obviously unplowed) side of the road while doing a 3 pt turn). I don't wanna 'choose my days' and want to be able to go places anytime I want (save for some crazy snowfall and the roads not yet being plowed).


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
It is fact, not opinion, that performance winter tires outperform normal snows in all conditions except snow and ice. This includes cold and dry. The glass transition temperature is the dry issue with summer tires, it is not remotely an issue with "performance winters". If you spend all your time driving on snow and ice then sure, get the regular snows.
Haha, I appreciate Chris' encouragement for wanting me to be a racecar driver 24/7 and for all 4 Cdn seasons but what are we talking about here? I don't get it, esp in the dead of winter, there aren't gonna be any of those days.

Like I said in my OP and seems like many agree, I just want to get by winter as safely as possible, so my #1 priority is traction, and then long-lasting tires. I really couldn't care less about performance in winter because it's kinda crazy when anyone can just hit some black ice and then game over; if I'm going at a manageable speed, I have a better chance of recovering, and, believe me, I've had to do many saves due to circumstances beyond one's control...if I was really speeding, it may have not turned out so well.

I enjoy spirited driving as much as the next guy, but no way in hell I'm doing any of that in real Cdn winter.
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Last edited by tranquility; 11-09-2023 at 06:05 PM..
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      11-09-2023, 06:05 PM   #36
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The Alpin's worked great for me, but we never see real snow like you guys do in Canada.
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      11-09-2023, 08:02 PM   #37
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The Alpin's worked great for me, but we never see real snow like you guys do in Canada.
I regret not holding out for Ferric 437s for my winter set.
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      11-09-2023, 08:07 PM   #38
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I use Michelin X-ice on my 1M. They are incredible.

the snow and ice grip with Nokias Hakkapelitta was better—but the dry grip and warmer temp grip was awful on the Nokians .
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      11-09-2023, 08:11 PM   #39
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For anyone who doesn't believe the Michelin's are equals to the Nokian or Bridgestones. The performance of all the top tires are extremely close.
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      11-09-2023, 10:34 PM   #40
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The Alpin's worked great for me, but we never see real snow like you guys do in Canada.
That's quite picturesque, whereabouts do you live w that nice, what, 1/8" snow? I love having 4 seasons, but those (sometimes) 1'+ snowfalls here are quite unbearable and treacherous.
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      11-09-2023, 11:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Nokian Hakkapeliitta are pretty much the gold standard.
These are the best, I live in the mountains in CO and have had them all. Blizzak would be my second choice. Keep in mind this is more for snow. If you just need them for cold conditions and a little snow a few times a years Perelli will drive the best in the cold, but do ok with snow
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      11-10-2023, 01:20 AM   #42
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I had the high performance LM blizzaks before. They sucked. I mean, if it was totally dry and cold, I'm sure they'd be fine, but it's not and conditions here are nasty enough that you need a real winter tire. Sure, you are "limited" to 100mph or so speed rating, but going that fast in these conditions is out of the question anyway. I'd never buy those high performance winter tires again, just no real point IMO.
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      11-10-2023, 02:50 AM   #43
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I had the high performance LM blizzaks before. They sucked. I mean, if it was totally dry and cold, I'm sure they'd be fine, but it's not and conditions here are nasty enough that you need a real winter tire. Sure, you are "limited" to 100mph or so speed rating, but going that fast in these conditions is out of the question anyway. I'd never buy those high performance winter tires again, just no real point IMO.
I’ve done 130 on Pilot Alpins so I disagree lol. It’s really just about what you expect to see on a regular basis.
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      11-10-2023, 08:00 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I regret not holding out for Ferric 437s for my winter set.
I'm going to end up selling mine, and something tells me I'm going to regret it.


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Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
That's quite picturesque, whereabouts do you live w that nice, what, 1/8" snow? I love having 4 seasons, but those (sometimes) 1'+ snowfalls here are quite unbearable and treacherous.
Missouri.

We get 1-3" a few times a season, nothing huge (except once in 1979 we got 25" in a day).

That pic was taken for fun, I drove right back into the garage. Hey, I'm a photographer, what can I say??

The Last Hurrah by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr
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