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      12-15-2016, 07:54 AM   #1
mkoesel
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Small RWD, non-luxury sedan?

I wish GM (or anyone for that matter) would build a small (relatively speaking), non-luxury, RWD sedan. They simply don't exist and that's a shame.

FWIW, this discussion spun off from this thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1334761

We veered off topic so, I broke it out to a separate thread.
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      12-15-2016, 09:05 AM   #2
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Agreed. An E46 sized (and weight) rwd sedan with three pedals would make anyone a ton of money. But no one makes one. Better to have a f'ing X2 and some GT turds.
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      12-15-2016, 09:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Agreed. An E46 sized (and weight) rwd sedan with three pedals would make anyone a ton of money. But no one makes one. Better to have a f'ing X2 and some GT turds.

Because no one would buy it, or at least not enough to pay for the R&D. All people buy these days is stupid SUVs.
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      12-15-2016, 10:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Because no one would buy it, or at least not enough to pay for the R&D. All people buy these days is stupid SUVs.
What R&D?

They already make models that would be perfect platforms for the oh so slight mods that would be required to huck the existing engine, transmission and pedals into......

It would cost virtually nothing to do
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      12-15-2016, 10:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnh View Post
What R&D?

They already make models that would be perfect platforms for the oh so slight mods that would be required to huck the existing engine, transmission and pedals into......

It would cost virtually nothing to do
What RWD architecture could they use?
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      12-15-2016, 10:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
What RWD architecture could they use?
GM has been making RWD vehicles for like 70+ years

Its not like they dont have lots of options.......including the existing corvette that they could transplant into most anything they wanted

Lets not pretend that this is a difficult thing to do or that GM has to create anything from scratch here
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      12-15-2016, 10:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnh View Post
GM has been making RWD vehicles for like 70+ years

Its not like they dont have lots of options.......including the existing corvette that they could transplant into most anything they wanted

Lets not pretend that this is a difficult thing to do or that GM has to create anything from scratch here
I think you are VASTLY underestimating what it takes to even change a bolt on a production unit, such as a car, nowadays.
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      12-15-2016, 11:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alz0rz View Post
I think you are VASTLY underestimating what it even takes to change a bolt on a product such as a car nowadays.
Maybe but its a matter of small changes/integrating existing tech/solutions instead of reinventing the wheel

One of the things I'd iike to see is an AWD capable vehicle that is optionally AWD and primarily RWD

The transfer cases are already there....its just a matter of enabling/disabling where the power is going
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      12-15-2016, 11:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnh View Post
GM has been making RWD vehicles for like 70+ years

Its not like they dont have lots of options.......including the existing corvette that they could transplant into most anything they wanted

Lets not pretend that this is a difficult thing to do or that GM has to create anything from scratch here
I don't think you understand how vehicle chassis work.
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      12-15-2016, 11:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
I don't think you understand how vehicle chassis work.
Dont you think you're over estimating the challenge?

Third party companies design and build suspension/chassis upgrades for vehicles all the time

Its not like this is really a difficult problem that there arent donor vehicles already set up to handle this

http://www.cadillac.com/sedans/ats-sedan.html

Shoving the majority of the drive train from a vette into an ATS would be a very interesting upgrade
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      12-15-2016, 01:11 PM   #11
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Shoving the majority of the drive train from a vette into an ATS would be a very interesting upgrade
Then do the swap and come back and tell us how much it cost.
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      12-15-2016, 01:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnh View Post
Shoving the majority of the drive train from a vette into an ATS would be a very interesting upgrade
I agree that would be a compelling product. I don't think GM will do that because it would likely out-perform (or perform closely enough to) a CTS-V at a lower price-point and threaten that car's market position.

Now if they made it a Chevy (or even a Buick) instead - i.e. more of "pony sedan" and less a luxury vehicle - then perhaps there's the business case. That's what I'd like to see too. But for whatever reason, nobody builds one.
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      12-15-2016, 01:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Then do the swap and come back and tell us how much it cost.
I said it would be an interesting car and one that woudnt be particularly difficult for GM to offer

I didnt say I was interesting in purchasing a 70k GM product

If I had 70k to spend on a car it sure as shit wouldnt be a GM product

That doesnt mean it wouldnt be an interesting car to have a CTS/CTS-V driven by a Corvette engine
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      12-15-2016, 01:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
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That doesnt mean it wouldnt be an interesting car to have a CTS/CTS-V driven by a Corvette engine
CTS-V already is just that.

But I think you meant to say ATS-V, as in previous posts.
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      12-15-2016, 01:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
CTS-V already is just that.

But I think you meant to say ATS-V, as in previous posts.
Maybe

I did mean ATS-V not CTS-V

The CTS is a much bigger vehicle than the ATS

The ATS chassis is much closer to the E46 dimensionally
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      12-15-2016, 02:36 PM   #16
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There have been ongoing rumors that an ATS-V Plus would get the old LS7 427 from the C6 Z06. Apparently there are a number left in inventory after the Z28 ceased production.
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      12-15-2016, 02:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
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There have been ongoing rumors that an ATS-V Plus would get the old LS7 427 from the C6 Z06. Apparently there are a number left in inventory after the Z28 ceased production.
What I've heard from locals who work in the industry is that engine can no longer meet emissions standards. And it would be too costly to update it to do so.

I think an engine with forced induction would be just fine though. How about a supercharged version of the 5.3L L83 currently used in the Silverado? The smaller displacement would distinguish it from the LT4 used in the CTS-V (as well as the Corvette Z06 and Camaro ZL1).
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      12-15-2016, 04:16 PM   #18
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Nearly nobody needs RWD, it's an enthusiast only thing in passenger cars and more enthusiasts than would admit don't "need" it either. FWD is also less expensive, so....done.
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      12-15-2016, 05:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Nearly nobody needs RWD, it's an enthusiast only thing in passenger cars and more enthusiasts than would admit don't "need" it either. FWD is also less expensive, so....done.
People dont need temperature guages either......and they shouldnt be allowed to have them....for their own good of course







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      12-15-2016, 05:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
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People dont need temperature guages either......and they shouldnt be allowed to have them....for their own good of course







Funny you mention that, because they really don't. The car's FADEC will retard power until the engine's warm (can't really keep idiots from abusing the car cold anyway) and and drivers only need an idiot light / message to know when things overheat. People don't watch the gage anyway. If you track the car you can hook up an android or whatever and get all that info plus more.
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      12-15-2016, 05:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Funny you mention that, because they really don't. The car's FADEC will retard power until the engine's warm (can't really keep idiots from abusing the car cold anyway) and and drivers only need an idiot light / message to know when things overheat. People don't watch the gage anyway. If you track the car you can hook up an android or whatever and get all that info plus more.
People dont need cars either

They should just use public transportation

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      12-15-2016, 05:26 PM   #22
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Toyota could do one on the FRS platform.
Or the current IS, for that matter.
Ford could base one on the Mustang.
GM could base one on the Camaro.
FCA could base one on the Challenger. Oh yeah - they did (okay, the sedan came first...) But it didn't turn out small, is way too heavy and either wallowy or stiff and why would you want it?
Nissan was considering a little "2-door sedan" a couple years back - but wanted to put in too small an engine, and saw no market.
Whenever I start to think one of these sounds like a good idea, I realize I'd be more likely to pick up a used BMW.
Which I did!
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