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10-27-2023, 10:21 PM | #23 | |
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10-27-2023, 11:01 PM | #24 | |
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For me, the right EV hadn't come around the last time I purchased. I spent a weekend with a P100D, tried very hard to sell my wife (and myself) on it, but the instant we sat in a 5 series it was over. From my perspective, the only advantage the Tesla had was 0-60 time, and I spend too much time in traffic jams for that to be an important criterion. For others, 0-60 is the most important quality. It just needs to be at a point that it's fast enough, and Tesla's are way, way past that point, while many ICE vehicles fit the bill well enough. I do think they hide their weight well and are fun to drive, the 3 and the S at least, though not at the level of bonafide M cars. Drivetrain is fantastic. Many other aspects are lacking. What's more important is highly subjective. For how well they're selling, Tesla has clearly identified and doubled down on the aspects that are appealing to a majority of consumers. I find BMW's EV lineup very compelling. If I were buying a car today it'd likely be an iX or an i5.
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10-28-2023, 12:23 AM | #25 |
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Lol. Such a stupid and ignorant statement. I'm not an EV hater at all. I've driven several. I think the EV drivetrain uses energy far more efficiently and effectively than ICEV; that's simply the physics of it. My issue is powering EV using a battery is stupid. The power density simply sucks and the recharge wait time is unacceptable when on a trip of more than 250 miles. It's not that people can't afford EV, it's ICEV offer a better value proposition than EV. Most people who use their money wisely recognize that fact. There is no real world advantage to using EV compared to ICEV. If there was an advantage to owning and using EV for private transportation purposes, there would be no need for MASSIVE Govenment INTERVENTION adjustment of the market.
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10-28-2023, 12:35 AM | #26 | |
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10-28-2023, 12:56 AM | #27 |
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Don't be naive, 90% or more of people that are interested in "performance" vehicles just want to go fast in a straight line or at a stoplight. Those of us that want an excellent handling car (see avatar) are a minority in that picture...and that's the people that are interested in more than just basic transportation. All you have to do to see this is look at all the "performance" SUVs.
This is not just something that EVs are good at...it's what they are best at and they are winning it. Like it or not, sports cars were already killed off by people buying SUVs. And cars like the M3P set up on track tires with good brake pads are doing crazy things in autoX because they don't turn horrible and accelerate next-level. This is only going to increase.
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10-28-2023, 03:20 AM | #28 | |
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Now try that with your EV..... ![]() |
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10-28-2023, 06:17 AM | #29 | |
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I have three totally different cars and they all serve their purpose. 2018 Cayman 6MT 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance 2021 Rubicon I can tell you right now, the m3P can hang with my mid engine Porsche when it comes to handling and is faster around a track using the same driver on the same track than many sports cars including my 718(Top Gear test track/ The Stig) 62. Tesla Model 3 Performance The Stig 1:21.50 487 / 1846 63. Aston Martin DB11 The Stig 1:21.50 608 / 1902 64. BMW M3 (F80) The Stig 1:21.60 431 / 1602 65. Porsche 718 Cayman S The Stig 1:21.60 350 / 1424 66. Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG The Stig 1:21.60 571 / 1674 67. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI (Mk I) The Stig 1:21.60 525 / 1671 68. Porsche Cayman GTS (981) The Stig 1:21.60 340 / 1379 69. Jaguar F-Type R Coupe The Stig 1:21.60 550 / 1665 70. Aston Martin One-77 The Stig 1:21.67 760 / 1500 71. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray The Stig 1:21.70 502 / 1646 72. SLS AMG Coupe Electric Drive The Stig 1:21.70 751 / 2095 73. Lamborghini Urus The Stig 1:21.70 650 / 2263 74. Ford GT (Mk I) The Stig 1:21.90 550 / 1574 75. Audi RS6 Avant (C8) The Stig 1:21.90 600 / 2188 76. Porsche 911 Turbo Cabriolet The Stig 1:22.20 500 / 1667 77. Ferrari 360 CS The Stig 1:22.30 425 / 1280 78. Alpine A110 S (Mk II 300 PS) The Stig 1:22.30 300 / 1133 79. Porsche 911 GT3 RS (996) The Stig 1:22.30 381 / 1360 80. Caterham Seven 620R The Stig 1:22.30 w 315 / 551 81. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI Spyder The Stig 1:22.30 525 / 1755 82. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6) The Stig 1:22.40 512 / 1446 83. Audi RS Q8 The Stig 1:22.50 600 / 2421 the list goes on but you get the picture....People who think they are only good in a straight line have never actually driven one.... I have had many many fun and fast cars in my life and the M3P is one of my favorite cars I've ever owned....not paying close to $6 a gallon these days here in Cali is just a nice bonus Last edited by SoCal_NSX; 10-28-2023 at 06:24 AM.. |
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10-28-2023, 07:01 AM | #30 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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10-28-2023, 07:06 AM | #31 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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10-28-2023, 07:35 AM | #32 | |
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Tesla makes just four (4) models off of two EV platforms. All of Tesla's Models are visually outdated. The legacy manufacturers are developing EV while still developing and supporting a vast legacy ICE vehicle fleet including light-duty trucks, delivery vehicles, heavy-duty trucks, and a highly diversified light-duty passenger vehicles. Making it sound like Ford (and the others) lose $33K per EV (as compared to Tesla) is not framing the business situation from the correct view. Of course Tesla can make a profitable EV, that's all it does. It has no legacy costs to cover and has not re-platformed any of it's vehicles in the past six years. Tesla does not make a 4x4 ORV (Jeep, Bronco, Land Cruiser), does not make a sedan-based convertible, does not make a work truck, does not make a work van, does not have a heavy-duty line of cab/chassis trucks. It makes just two outdated platforms.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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10-28-2023, 09:08 AM | #33 |
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I think Toyota made major mistakes in how they approached the 2010s with borderline little to no innovation on turbo motors, being last on tech and losing a lot of market share to the Germans. I am sure that is a major reason why he was asked to leave as well... Now they are releasing cars like the new US landcruiser about 5-6 years too later however-
Where I think they went very right was to continue to invest in Hybrid tech while everyone else went all out on EVs.
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10-28-2023, 09:11 AM | #34 | |
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https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/s/7nm7HO4cuy $98,900!
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10-28-2023, 09:35 AM | #35 | |
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Why racetracks are giving hybrids and EVs the cold shoulder 01 May 2023 Summit Point Motorsports Park, a two-mile, natural-terrain road course in West Virginia that opened in 1969. Summit Point’s director of motorsports operations, Edwin Pardue, has banned the use of electric vehicles and hybrids on track. Pardue is not alone. Carolina Motorsports Park, in Kershaw, South Carolina, which has a 2.27-mile road course, abides by a simple rule on its books: “No electric vehicles allowed on track.” A relative handful of other circuits have followed suit. The NCCC went even further than Summit Point, stating that if you bring your E-Ray to a motorsports event, you’ll be required to park “30 feet minimum from buildings and other cars.” https://www.hagerty.com/media/motors...cold-shoulder/ I guess you will be either left to your Stig fantasy world or more street racing until you get caught. |
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10-28-2023, 09:42 AM | #36 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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10-28-2023, 09:44 AM | #37 | |
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10-28-2023, 09:45 AM | #38 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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10-28-2023, 09:48 AM | #39 |
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10-28-2023, 09:51 AM | #40 |
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Tesla wouldn't have made it. (5 words
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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10-28-2023, 09:54 AM | #41 |
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We've been here before:
The story of the little known inventor, Thomas Parker, who built and drove the world's first practical electric car...over 130 years ago. |
10-28-2023, 11:46 AM | #42 | |
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Not surprising ![]() |
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10-29-2023, 01:29 AM | #43 | |
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For in town daily driving with something like hydro or nuclear power it’s a more advantageous type of personal car than burning petrol. The rest of your points, yeah they track. |
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10-29-2023, 04:16 AM | #44 | |
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And the Greens just LOVE fish-killing hydro and Chernobal/Fukushima nuclear generation. |
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