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      01-17-2020, 12:04 PM   #419
kavo11
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I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I get that the M5 is a better car, with more road "feel", but the M550 has the Performance of the previous F10 generation. The article says the 550 feels great. I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

I say this often for people who use "because track" as a reason, but Modern M cars are heavy and big. Even that E92, while excellent at the limit and forgiving, was heavy to push around all day. You can feel the weight in the corners. Why are you tracking a car with full back seats and leather etc on a consistent basis?

So, if you have the finances for just one car that you need to use every day and track often, get the M3. I'll be a half second behind you having just as much fun.
Again, you're comparing a car that's 12 YEARS older and 2 GENERATIONS older. Compare the 335i to the e9x m3 and tell me they're anywhere close to the same.

To your point about 17% better performance for 25% price premium... It's called the law of diminishing returns. 17% performance increase is a substantial increase. Let's apply this example to school. A student that always gets 100% likely has to work at least 25% harder than the 83% student to get the 17% grade increase. For most people, being a low B student is acceptable and they settle for that score. Again, no issues with it. But that 83% student better not go around claiming to be a 100% A+ student because they aren't. Its a significant difference.

To your final point, I highly disagree if you actually think a M550 will be just a half second behind a M5 on a track. In a straight line, maybe its close to M-like performance, but it'll never have M like involvement or M fun factor. Try breaking that rear end loose like an M5 with precision control and not find yourself getting thrashed around like a ragdoll pointing the other direction.
Man that's a lot of numbers.

Look. The M5 is the best 5 Series you can buy. It's the fastest, most involved one.

All I'm saying is you might not NEED all that performance. If you don't, an M550 is a nice choice, and still a car you can enjoy every day with performance better than most previous M cars. That doesn't mean it's NOT an M car.
M550i is a fantastic car.

Funny to see M5s stuck in traffic and crawling at 3MPH like everybody else...
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
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Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
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Originally Posted by kavo11 View Post
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Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I get that the M5 is a better car, with more road "feel", but the M550 has the Performance of the previous F10 generation. The article says the 550 feels great. I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

I say this often for people who use "because track" as a reason, but Modern M cars are heavy and big. Even that E92, while excellent at the limit and forgiving, was heavy to push around all day. You can feel the weight in the corners. Why are you tracking a car with full back seats and leather etc on a consistent basis?

So, if you have the finances for just one car that you need to use every day and track often, get the M3. I'll be a half second behind you having just as much fun.
Again, you're comparing a car that's 12 YEARS older and 2 GENERATIONS older. Compare the 335i to the e9x m3 and tell me they're anywhere close to the same.

To your point about 17% better performance for 25% price premium... It's called the law of diminishing returns. 17% performance increase is a substantial increase. Let's apply this example to school. A student that always gets 100% likely has to work at least 25% harder than the 83% student to get the 17% grade increase. For most people, being a low B student is acceptable and they settle for that score. Again, no issues with it. But that 83% student better not go around claiming to be a 100% A+ student because they aren't. Its a significant difference.

To your final point, I highly disagree if you actually think a M550 will be just a half second behind a M5 on a track. In a straight line, maybe its close to M-like performance, but it'll never have M like involvement or M fun factor. Try breaking that rear end loose like an M5 with precision control and not find yourself getting thrashed around like a ragdoll pointing the other direction.
Man that's a lot of numbers.

Look. The M5 is the best 5 Series you can buy. It's the fastest, most involved one.

All I'm saying is you might not NEED all that performance. If you don't, an M550 is a nice choice, and still a car you can enjoy every day with performance better than most previous M cars. That doesn't mean it's NOT an M car.
M550i is a fantastic car.

Funny to see M5s stuck in traffic and crawling at 3MPH like everybody else...
By that logic, isn't it funny for a 530i owner to see a 540i or 550i stuck in traffic creeping along? Heck, I'm sure a Prius owner thinks it's funny to see any of the aforementioned stuck in traffic.
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      01-17-2020, 12:10 PM   #420
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A Class? Be serious.

I am talking real cars here....I don't even know what an A Class looks like.

300 horsepower on an AMG? My SL55 had almost 500.....FIFTEEN YEARS AGO!

Here is the REAL question....let's see how many people want the M-Performance cars if they start changing residuals for those models to mirror actual M cars (lease mileage overage, too).
Actually you weren't talking about the higher end models. Here is your quote again. "Those lower AMG models are SLOW....the M Performance cars at least have an actual power upgrade more worthy of the name. There, you are paying for the AMG name even though the car really has zero upgrades over the other models." I was just pointing out that "zero upgrades" for a lower end AMG is a totally false statement.
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      01-17-2020, 12:10 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
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I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I get that the M5 is a better car, with more road "feel", but the M550 has the Performance of the previous F10 generation. The article says the 550 feels great. I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

I say this often for people who use "because track" as a reason, but Modern M cars are heavy and big. Even that E92, while excellent at the limit and forgiving, was heavy to push around all day. You can feel the weight in the corners. Why are you tracking a car with full back seats and leather etc on a consistent basis?

So, if you have the finances for just one car that you need to use every day and track often, get the M3. I'll be a half second behind you having just as much fun.
Again, you're comparing a car that's 12 YEARS older and 2 GENERATIONS older. Compare the 335i to the e9x m3 and tell me they're anywhere close to the same.

To your point about 17% better performance for 25% price premium... It's called the law of diminishing returns. 17% performance increase is a substantial increase. Let's apply this example to school. A student that always gets 100% likely has to work at least 25% harder than the 83% student to get the 17% grade increase. For most people, being a low B student is acceptable and they settle for that score. Again, no issues with it. But that 83% student better not go around claiming to be a 100% A+ student because they aren't. Its a significant difference.

To your final point, I highly disagree if you actually think a M550 will be just a half second behind a M5 on a track. In a straight line, maybe its close to M-like performance, but it'll never have M like involvement or M fun factor. Try breaking that rear end loose like an M5 with precision control and not find yourself getting thrashed around like a ragdoll pointing the other direction.
Man that's a lot of numbers.

Look. The M5 is the best 5 Series you can buy. It's the fastest, most involved one.

All I'm saying is you might not NEED all that performance. If you don't, an M550 is a nice choice, and still a car you can enjoy every day with performance better than most previous M cars. That doesn't mean it's NOT an M car.
M550i is a fantastic car.

Funny to see M5s stuck in traffic and crawling at 3MPH like everybody else...
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Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
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Originally Posted by kavo11 View Post
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Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I get that the M5 is a better car, with more road "feel", but the M550 has the Performance of the previous F10 generation. The article says the 550 feels great. I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

I say this often for people who use "because track" as a reason, but Modern M cars are heavy and big. Even that E92, while excellent at the limit and forgiving, was heavy to push around all day. You can feel the weight in the corners. Why are you tracking a car with full back seats and leather etc on a consistent basis?

So, if you have the finances for just one car that you need to use every day and track often, get the M3. I'll be a half second behind you having just as much fun.
Again, you're comparing a car that's 12 YEARS older and 2 GENERATIONS older. Compare the 335i to the e9x m3 and tell me they're anywhere close to the same.

To your point about 17% better performance for 25% price premium... It's called the law of diminishing returns. 17% performance increase is a substantial increase. Let's apply this example to school. A student that always gets 100% likely has to work at least 25% harder than the 83% student to get the 17% grade increase. For most people, being a low B student is acceptable and they settle for that score. Again, no issues with it. But that 83% student better not go around claiming to be a 100% A+ student because they aren't. Its a significant difference.

To your final point, I highly disagree if you actually think a M550 will be just a half second behind a M5 on a track. In a straight line, maybe its close to M-like performance, but it'll never have M like involvement or M fun factor. Try breaking that rear end loose like an M5 with precision control and not find yourself getting thrashed around like a ragdoll pointing the other direction.
Man that's a lot of numbers.

Look. The M5 is the best 5 Series you can buy. It's the fastest, most involved one.

All I'm saying is you might not NEED all that performance. If you don't, an M550 is a nice choice, and still a car you can enjoy every day with performance better than most previous M cars. That doesn't mean it's NOT an M car.
M550i is a fantastic car.

Funny to see M5s stuck in traffic and crawling at 3MPH like everybody else...
By that logic, isn't it funny for a 530i owner to see a 540i or 550i stuck in traffic creeping along? Heck, I'm sure a Prius owner thinks it's funny to see any of the aforementioned stuck in traffic.
Yeah man, it's all one big laugh
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      01-17-2020, 12:11 PM   #422
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Can someone tag me once people start challenging each other to meet up for a fight?
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      01-17-2020, 12:22 PM   #423
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      01-17-2020, 12:27 PM   #424
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Can someone tag me once people start challenging each other to meet up for a fight?
Ya, me too. We can car pool in my real M.
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      01-17-2020, 12:29 PM   #425
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Can someone tag me once people start challenging each other to meet up for a fight?
Already happened a page or two back
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      01-17-2020, 12:31 PM   #426
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In an attempt to start another argument, what do people think of the 850CSi? It has a WBS chassis, S engine, 6 speed only and a bunch of other chassis changes.

No M in the name though, it is an M more than an m340i, x2 m35, etc etc?
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      01-17-2020, 12:41 PM   #427
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Who cares? It only matters for internal designation/training purposes. The cars' model names and capabilities remain unchanged. Fact is M had a hand in making sure the M235i, M240i, M340i, etc. were track capable and worthy to some degree of wearing the M badge. The rest is just marketing and ego dilemma, neither of which matter.
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      01-17-2020, 12:47 PM   #428
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20 pages now, arguing about a marketing decision.

Mechanically speaking, nothing has changed about these cars. We're essentially arguing semantics.

On the one hand, this makes our community look toxic as hell, on the other hand, i totally want to start a drinking game where you have to drink any time anyone claims to not be angry.
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      01-17-2020, 12:48 PM   #429
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Expect to see lots of M340 and M550 joining the ///M car meets.
pal, if the m drivers behavier is like in this thread... i am going to debadge my car and put a 320 badge on it... just enjoy my ride and stay away
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      01-17-2020, 12:49 PM   #430
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I've had 6 Ms over the years.

I drive a fabulous M2 now.

I had an F80 M3.

Had an opportunity to test drive the G20 M340i, and it was a beast. Better in every way than my old F80. Steering, torque, sound, handling, etc.

What does that suggest? That the next M3 will be even more spectacular.

As M technology drifts down to "regular" BMWs, including M "performance" cars, that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
I am with you sir; had several M's over the years, many 911's, etc. The new M340i is actually quite comparable in weight, size and easily surpasses the performance envelope of the sacrosanct E39 M5, the holy grail of M's according to some. This is also known as progress and there is nothing wrong with it, and it does mean the next M3 will likely be a terrific car!
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      01-17-2020, 12:51 PM   #431
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Well, a real M car is obviously not:
- a SUV: exit X3M, X5M, etc
- a FWD or a AWD: exit M235i, M340i, M5, etc
- a sport car that sounds like shit : exit M2C, M3, M4, etc
- a boat: exit M6, M8, etc
- a car that looks very much like a normal BMW: exit M240i, etc
So, in conclusion, my M2 LCI was the last real M-car! 😆
Sorry, needs an "S" series engine
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      01-17-2020, 12:52 PM   #432
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All of the current cars with any type of M in their name are nice in their own way, but the original M badge signified a track ready or motorsports bred car. Putting an M badge on all kinds of different cars (no matter how great each one is) diffuses the meaning of the label.

What was so wrong with a 335is for example? That is a great car and it didn't need an M on the back to make it so. When you hear the name you know immediately what it is.

BMW M used to mean something like Porsche GT. I don't think that is true anymore.
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      01-17-2020, 01:00 PM   #433
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As an M3 owner I couldn't care less because I love the car I drive and I don't care about what you drive. this thread proves
and justifies why I don't associate or hang out with the BMW guys at the cars and coffees.

Did you buy your car because of the model name or the driving experience or to be part of some snotty club.

You can call my car whatever you want or slap and letter in the English alphabet on the rear end. It doesn't matter at all.

I'm just hear so I don't get fined.
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      01-17-2020, 01:06 PM   #434
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As a driver of, what some would call a real M, I accept the Performance models in the family. M340i is a great car from what I‘ve heard.
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      01-17-2020, 01:12 PM   #435
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SMFH ///M corporate management boys who have never taking an engine apart in their lives are STILL defending the badge thinking their M is handcrafted in a special ///M plant like a Bugatti, let me be a bearer of bad news it's all off an assembly line in Regensburg and Munich just like any other BMW.

You want to get down to the FACTS people? Let's talk F-in facts, fact is that the N54 which is also in the 1M engine as well as the 335i was BMW's first mainstream turbo engine and baseline for the S55. Both have forged cranks, forged rods, and open aluminum deck and cast pistons making some of the best blocks in the auto market. BMW just advanced the components such as a mechanical pump versus an electronic pump. I've taken apart a E92 M3 and F80 M3 in my buddy's shop: sure better control arms, struts, sway bars and end links, but let me tell you still shit compared to high end after market parts. Shit intercooler, shit crank hub, shit driveshaft on the E92. Shit bushing and mounts. Shit rod bearings. And who's not to say that all these "upgraded" shit components are not in the M340i, with both now having a locking differential and I hear the ZF8 is better than that DCT and going in the 2020 M? Say what to that.

Is an $130,000 M850i that much less quality built than an M8, I f-in doubt it. Do you F80 and F10 M guys pull up to a M850i and say "well that's not an ///M..."

So unless someone here who knows engines, a BMW engineer or certified mechanic gets me a f-ing tech sheet of side-by-side comparisons of all the internals and components of M340i compared to to an F80 S55 everyone needs to STFU as it's all hearsay. NOT one damn person in 20 f-ing pages has broken down the engineering and schematics of these cars just a bunch assumptions i.e. ass out of you and me.
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      01-17-2020, 01:46 PM   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Sorry, needs an "S" series engine
You’re right! Exit M2 and 1M then. So we can all agree that the last real M-car was the e92 M3! Furthermore, it had a NA engine, as a real M-car should have
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      01-17-2020, 01:50 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by Io View Post
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Sorry, needs an "S" series engine
You’re right! Exit M2 and 1M then. So we can all agree that the last real M-car was the e92 M3! Furthermore, it had a NA engine, as a real M-car should have
I still miss my E92 M3. Should've kept it.
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      01-17-2020, 01:55 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
SMFH ///M corporate management boys who have never taking an engine apart in their lives are STILL defending the badge thinking their M is handcrafted in a special ///M plant like a Bugatti, let me be a bearer of bad news it's all off an assembly line in Regensburg and Munich just like any other BMW.

You want to get down to the FACTS people? Let's talk F-in facts, fact is that the N54 which is also in the 1M engine as well as the 335i was BMW's first mainstream turbo engine and baseline for the S55. Both have forged cranks, forged rods, and open aluminum deck and cast pistons making some of the best blocks in the auto market. BMW just advanced the components such as a mechanical pump versus an electronic pump. I've taken apart a E92 M3 and F80 M3 in my buddy's shop: sure better control arms, struts, sway bars and end links, but let me tell you still shit compared to high end after market parts. Shit intercooler, shit crank hub, shit driveshaft on the E92. Shit bushing and mounts. Shit rod bearings. And who's not to say that all these "upgraded" shit components are not in the M340i, with both now having a locking differential and I hear the ZF8 is better than that DCT and going in the 2020 M? Say what to that.

Is an $130,000 M850i that much less quality built than an M8, I f-in doubt it. Do you F80 and F10 M guys pull up to a M850i and say "well that's not an ///M..."

So unless someone here who knows engines, a BMW engineer or certified mechanic gets me a f-ing tech sheet of side-by-side comparisons of all the internals and components of M340i compared to to an F80 S55 everyone needs to STFU as it's all hearsay. NOT one damn person in 20 f-ing pages has broken down the engineering and schematics of these cars just a bunch assumptions i.e. ass out of you and me.


It isn't just the materials, but what the car is designed for and/or how the materials are used that differentiates the models. An M3 after all is really just a modified 320i. Just like a GT3 is a modified 911. A Mustang GT500 is a modified GT, etc.

An M340i is a great street car, but you should be able to take an M3 to the track and lap it faster and for longer. The two cars should feel different too. If not then what is the point of having the different models? The price differences aren't so great between for example an M340i vs an M3 that we should expect a substantial difference in parts quality. What is different is the engineering and the goal for each model.

However, in the old days we used to get a bespoke motorsport engine at least (ie s65).
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      01-17-2020, 02:02 PM   #439
nicky dj
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SMFH ///M corporate management boys who have never taking an engine apart in their lives are STILL defending the badge thinking their M is handcrafted in a special ///M plant like a Bugatti, let me be a bearer of bad news it's all off an assembly line in Regensburg and Munich just like any other BMW.

You want to get down to the FACTS people? Let's talk F-in facts, fact is that the N54 which is also in the 1M engine as well as the 335i was BMW's first mainstream turbo engine and baseline for the S55. Both have forged cranks, forged rods, and open aluminum deck and cast pistons making some of the best blocks in the auto market. BMW just advanced the components such as a mechanical pump versus an electronic pump. I've taken apart a E92 M3 and F80 M3 in my buddy's shop: sure better control arms, struts, sway bars and end links, but let me tell you still shit compared to high end after market parts. Shit intercooler, shit crank hub, shit driveshaft on the E92. Shit bushing and mounts. Shit rod bearings. And who's not to say that all these "upgraded" shit components are not in the M340i, with both now having a locking differential and I hear the ZF8 is better than that DCT and going in the 2020 M? Say what to that.

Is an $130,000 M850i that much less quality built than an M8, I f-in doubt it. Do you F80 and F10 M guys pull up to a M850i and say "well that's not an ///M..."

So unless someone here who knows engines, a BMW engineer or certified mechanic gets me a f-ing tech sheet of side-by-side comparisons of all the internals and components of M340i compared to to an F80 S55 everyone needs to STFU as it's all hearsay. NOT one damn person in 20 f-ing pages has broken down the engineering and schematics of these cars just a bunch assumptions i.e. ass out of you and me.


It isn't just the materials, but what the car is designed for and/or how the materials are used that differentiates the models. An M3 after all is really just a modified 320i. Just like a GT3 is a modified 911. A Mustang GT500 is a modified GT, etc.

An M340i is a great street car, but you should be able to take an M3 to the track and lap it faster and for longer. The two cars should feel different too. If not then what is the point of having the different models? The price differences aren't so great between for example an M340i vs an M3 that we should expect a substantial difference in parts quality. What is different is the engineering and the goal for each model.

However, in the old days we used to get a bespoke motorsport engine at least.
Are you a damn BMW engineer or have taken a part M850i?? Give me the mother f-in engineering spec sheet.
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      01-17-2020, 02:03 PM   #440
kavo11
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🤣 perfect meme useage, bravo sir!
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