BMW 740i vs Mercedes S450

[Epiplatys]

Originally Posted by Lawguy

I’m in kinda of a similar spot.

Have to decide between a gorgeous loaded selenite Gray 2020 s560 ($131k msrp) and a loaded 2020 m760i ($171k MSRP). The MB would be a purchase, the BMW a 3 year lease. The monthly nut is about the same.

The money isn’t a huge issue, though I do like the idea of some equity in the MB versus leasing. Although, cars are such diminishing value assets, the equity ain’t much. The 12 cylinder Bmw would be a blast.

I have to figure it out soon before one of them sells and the decision is made for me.

It would be a legitimate comparison and a difficult decision between a BMW 750 and Merc S560. Been there as well. However the M760Li is in a different league in my experience. Never thought it would make such a huge difference. I would rate the M760Li as substantially superior to the S560 in comfort, quickness, effortlessness, and it comes fully loaded including all wheel steering, all wheel drive, camera road pre-view, all current BMW chassis stabilization systems etc.

[TENCHI]

BMW for performance, Benz for comfort.

Coming off of Benzes, the BMW seems a little outdated lacking on the comfort and bells and whistles. Even my older e300 seemed to have better class. With that said, the BMW is much more fun to drive. tough call, but if you got money....get both.

[Epiplatys]

Originally Posted by TENCHI

Coming off of Benzes, the BMW seems a little outdated lacking on the comfort and bells and whistles. Even my older e300 seemed to have better class.

As the former W222 S550 owner, I'd be curious to know where the 7 series is lacking in terms of comfort, and especially bells and whistles, technology. I'd also say the 7 series interior is of higher quality if you spec out BMW Individual in executive tier 2, and compare to anything from Designo. At the Maybach trim level they are more of a match, but you can get silver champaign glasses with Maybach so I'll give them that
Main things that mattered to me, so I ended up with a 2016 750Li, and then the current M760Li are:
- better HUD, which is all I need to instrumentation
- I'm one of those actively using gesture control
- AWD
- four-wheel steering - this makes a really big difference, and this is why Merc introduces this option for W223 now
- better interior materials, both 7 series vehicles I moved to specked as Individual option. Merino leather is appreciably nicer than the Napa option in Merc Designo.
- comfort very similar, driving/handling noticeably nicer in the 7 series

Having said that I'm personally constantly back and forth between the Merc and BMW. They are both nice and I'm happy in either one. I would never say one is superior to the other.

[Lawguy]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Are rear doors a must have?

[IMG]https://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/i...e-review-1.jpg[/IMG]

Yes. Loved the idea of an s63 coupe. But have to haul around a 6’2 son and his bag of lacrosse gear, along with wife at times. Coupe just too inconvenient.

[Shantosh Seewooruttun]

Originally Posted by Epiplatys

As the former W222 S550 owner, I'd be curious to know where the 7 series is lacking in terms of comfort, and especially bells and whistles, technology. I'd also say the 7 series interior is of higher quality if you spec out BMW Individual in executive tier 2, and compare to anything from Designo. At the Maybach trim level they are more of a match, but you can get silver champaign glasses with Maybach so I'll give them that
Main things that mattered to me, so I ended up with a 2016 750Li, and then the current M760Li are:
- better HUD, which is all I need to instrumentation
- I'm one of those actively using gesture control
- AWD
- four-wheel steering - this makes a really big difference, and this is why Merc introduces this option for W223 now
- better interior materials, both 7 series vehicles I moved to specked as Individual option. Merino leather is appreciably nicer than the Napa option in Merc Designo.
- comfort very similar, driving/handling noticeably nicer in the 7 series

Having said that I'm personally constantly back and forth between the Merc and BMW. They are both nice and I'm happy in either one. I would never say one is superior to the other.

I also think that the 7 series interior is as good-looking and as luxurious feeling as the S when configured Individual. I think the differences in views are mostly subjective - a matter of taste or maybe being biased due to the liking of one particular brand rather than anything else. Some people are more into curves (S-Class) and some more into straight and sharp lines (7 Series). Like I said in another thread, there are no big difference in terms of technology between the two, and in fact the G11/G12 should be slightly ahead in this area compared to the W222. Also, the difference in comfort and so on should be minimal unless there are other factors involved like tires, different suspension settings, different seat types and so on, or maybe there is something wrong with the seats themselves (maybe require change) if someone really had a bad experience.

I am a bit same like you, that is, I would not say one is superior to the other. It is just a matter of individual taste. But if say someone is into cars and has the choice of going for between a V8 W222 and a V12 G12 now, provided the the two are fully loaded (spec'd) and fuel consumption is not an issue, I think he should opt for the V12 because that might be his last chance of getting one as new, and thus it will be sort of last chance to experience what you yourself described above.

The S-Class Maybach is something else (different category, and of course the rear interior is at a different level), and I would say is mostly for owners that want sit at the back and be chauffeured around for very long distances. Maybachs (also RR Ghosts, Phantoms and so on) are not required as such for my country as it is a small island, so it S-Class vs 7 series vs A8 vs XJ here.

No need for the M760Li for my country because the extra power is of no use as such for the small roads here (speed limit 80-120 Km/h), and my situation is that I am more of a passenger than the driver, and suppose if I was in the market for a luxury car that I would drive myself as a performance-based car, then that cannot be big sedans like the 7 series but smaller and lighter options.

[TXSTYLE]

To OP.... Sounds pretty spot on to me from what I've seen and felt gon both cars.

The LCI 7 is indeed LIGHT YEARS ahead of 16-19 IMO as well. The Crill and Tail light treatment really changed the dynamics overall.

That photo of the seats and difference in cushioning is tremendous.

And I also agree with you on the dash color.

In this 6 figure price point, BMW should have truly spared no expense for their flagship.

[SW17LS]

From having driven them back to back to back multiple times, taking styling out of the equation. The S Class has better seats IMO, the 7 Series seats seem harder to me. The 7 Series does have better seat massage. The S Class rides just that little bit better, and it is quieter. I have a dB meter I use when I test drive cars. At 75 MPH cruise I get solidly 57-58-59 db never blipping over 60 in the S560. In the 750 its 59-60-61 on the same stretch of road. Both are very quiet though, but if you want the quietest it's the S Class.

Interior, material quality slight edge to the S Class. The 7 Series base headliner is nowhere near as nice as the base headliner in the S Class, & has low rent feeling hard plastic along the door sills and up to the mid point of the B pilar. I feel I need to spec the 7 Series interior out more to get to where I'm 100% happy with the materials than I do the S Class.

Displays, I feel the larger infotainment screen and the more configurable gauge screen are superior in the S Class.

7 Series is easier to option in a really custom way.

I don't think you can go wrong either way, and I think both cars are great looking, just different. I am leaning towards the S560 though.

[NewQ]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

From having driven them back to back to back multiple times, taking styling out of the equation. The S Class has better seats IMO, the 7 Series seats seem harder to me. The 7 Series does have better seat massage. The S Class rides just that little bit better, and it is quieter. I have a dB meter I use when I test drive cars. At 75 MPH cruise I get solidly 57-58-59 db never blipping over 60 in the S560. In the 750 its 59-60-61 on the same stretch of road. Both are very quiet though, but if you want the quietest it's the S Class.

Interior, material quality slight edge to the S Class. The 7 Series base headliner is nowhere near as nice as the base headliner in the S Class, & has low rent feeling hard plastic along the door sills and up to the mid point of the B pilar. I feel I need to spec the 7 Series interior out more to get to where I'm 100% happy with the materials than I do the S Class.

Displays, I feel the larger infotainment screen and the more configurable gauge screen are superior in the S Class.

7 Series is easier to option in a really custom way.

I don't think you can go wrong either way, and I think both cars are great looking, just different. I am leaning towards the S560 though.

I agree with you in part, and disagree in part.

I think the S does start from a higher point vs. the equivalent base 7-Series. However, once optioned up, it's even. I would give the material quality and interior build quality point to the 7 over the S.

Topped out, I think it would come down to taste. In the 7, Merino leather, quilted armrests, leather on the lower doors, ceramic controls, etc. are a formidable combination.

I'm also not that broken up about the plastic on the door sills and lower B-pillar. And mind you, I'm Mr. "Feel around everywhere in the interior for even the faintest whiff of cheap plastic, including the lower doors, lower center console, footwells, back of the dash, grab handles, etc.", but those areas truly are so far out of the sphere of interaction that they don't bother me, though I do recognize them.

As a side note the lower B-pillars in the new S-Class look plastic to me.

Another side note, I appreciated the Lexus LS500 having stitched leather around the seat controls.

[SW17LS]

Lower pillars in the S Class are the headliner fabric all the way down to the floor. The W223 looks the same to me. There is *no* hard plastic anywhere in the W222 S Class interior.

Optioned up I agree that the 7 is similar, but still there's something about the S Class interior feel that just isn't there in the 7 even optioned up.

For me though, I would have to order a 7 in order to get an interior that I was satisfied with, I can be satisfied with ANY S560 interior from a material standpoint.

Issue with the LS500, is thats not leather there, its stitched synthetic leather. Better than plastic, no doubt but I don't believe you can option an LS500 where the dash and door materials are entirely real leather like you can an S or 7.

[NewQ]

I know it's that way in the 222, I'm just telling you what it looks like in the 223 to me.

I could be wrong, or it could be a pre-production model. It wouldn't make sense to lower the quality of the new car, so it could very likely be one of those two explanations.

I think most of the "feel" people talk about when they're debating S v. 7 is attributable to the design. And the S-Class certainly has a more dramatic design, that even I prefer sometimes. I wouldn't underestimate how far that goes in influencing your perceptions.

I wouldn't be satisfied with some of the lower-end S-Class interiors. Dark wood on black everywhere with the base headliner, and lower quality leather in some places, really feels unbecoming of a car like that. Granted, I wouldn't feel any better about similarly-equipped 7. I think the S has metal speaker grilles in all trims, so that's a point for Mercedes. My perfect S-Class would be the highest-end leather package, with a white and black interior, with the diamond perforations on the dash and door, with a medium-colored wood. The pillowy quilting on the Maybach-level trims is too much for me.

I also never knew about the Lexus leather options, I didn't research it far enough to find out. I'm surprised they wouldn't offer full leather though.

[Kmish]

I like the new w223, but the w222 mercedes is too baroque for my taste. Maybe if you are a 78 year old retiree playing mah jongg with your fellow blue hair ladies in boca raton the s class would fit. Give me a B7 or 760 with full merino, alcantara headliner, sky lounge panoramic roof, and bowers and wilkins all day!

[Germanauto]

You hit the nail on the head OP. I remember when photos of the G11 unmasked where released here and everybody commented on how dull and uninspiring it looked. The interior dash design is equally as uninspiring and bland.

With the LCI, BMW knew they needed to shake things up since the G11 was forgotten as soon as it was released. The solution was this ridiculous grille grafted onto the front of a car that still looks dull overall.

The forthcoming W223 S-class is incredibly impressive; BMW needs to step up its game with the next model. The last 7-series which was truly exceptional was the E65 Bangle model, which after its LCI was the perfect looking executive car. The F01 and G11 look like dull land whales in comparison.

[Shantosh Seewooruttun]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

You hit the nail on the head OP. I remember when photos of the G11 unmasked where released here and everybody commented on how dull and uninspiring it looked. The interior dash design is equally as uninspiring and bland.

With the LCI, BMW knew they needed to shake things up since the G11 was forgotten as soon as it was released. The solution was this ridiculous grille grafted onto the front of a car that still looks dull overall.

The forthcoming W223 S-class is incredibly impressive; BMW needs to step up its game with the next model. The last 7-series which was truly exceptional was the E65 Bangle model, which after its LCI was the perfect looking executive car. The F01 and G11 look like dull land whales in comparison.

Have you seen the W223 in person or even on several video and picture takes, not just those enhanced images? I got the same unimpressed, uninspired, dull feeling when I first saw this car. The rear is horrible for a flagship limo-style car and the front is bad too (though more acceptable compared to the rear) - simply, those tailights and headlights do not fit for that type of car - looks like a balooned sports coupe. After watching the W223 several times, someone should see that there is something not right with the exterior. Mercedes went ahead in terms of technology which is something expected for any new upcoming model for any big car brand, but clearly they went to worst in terms of appearance. The exterior neither looks futuristic nor classic and of course not inspiring or anything like this. The interior is fine for this type of car, maybe the front interior is not to my taste, but is fine generally unlike the exterior which looks like a swollen coupe with an even more swollen grill that has been rounded without any swelling on the main lights; problem is clearly with the lights. Some people like to talk about proportions when it came to the G11 facelift, and I agree on the grill being too big, but look at proportions and shapes on the front and rear of the W223, and consider the whole size and shape of the car; horrible; it looks like a fat whale wearing thin sunglasses whose lenses do not even have a proper shape for its face. I am not here to bash Mercedes or BMW or any car brand; if something is not right, it must be said. It is the front of the new S that looks like a whale and it is the rear that is clearly dull. Maybe Mercedes tried make the car look more sporty but is a mess in some way. They probably should have sticked with how they went with the W222 instead of slapping coupe-style lights on something as big and rounded (because they rounded it like a potato) as this car. The W222, while it did not provide the sporty and aggressive appeareance that some people might look for, it was a masterpiece in terms of elegance and class, which clearly suited this type of car, and with the right color and mods, it could have more aggressiveness while still keeping that classy, elegant and proportionate look. Appearance-wise, so far, the previous generation of whatever class (not only the S, but even the sports and coupes car), Mercedes stepped up significantly unlike the current new generation S and also the facelifted E-Class which clearly look like they disfigured their cars.

[AlteBMW]

The thing I don't like about the S class, now and in the new iteration, is that it looks like a swollen C class. The styling is C class and E class styling and nothing really unique. It is hard to tell them all apart. Say what you will about the big grille on the LCI G12, but it is distinctive. And a 7 does not look like a swollen 3 series.

[Shantosh Seewooruttun]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

The thing I don't like about the S class, now and in the new iteration, is that it looks like a swollen C class. The styling is C class and E class styling and nothing really unique. It is hard to tell them all apart. Say what you will about the big grille on the LCI G12, but it is distinctive. And a 7 does not look like a swollen 3 series.

Clearly the new one looks like swollen even if they not did it as such. I mean just look at it; looks like a sports-coupe in potato couch version, and the rear is just the bad icing on the cake to make someone into S-Classes not opt for this car or at least wait for the facelift if it would be longer term keeper. That is the only thing I can really significantly complain of the W223 because simply whatever style someone is into, futurist, classic, sporty whatever, the exterior don't look like it will suit in well generally, especially not that rear for an S-Class. About the ressemblance between classes of previous generation Mercedes, they do, but at least they looked right for their size even though they were not to Bimmer and certain Audi fans tastes (they lacked the sharpness, straightness and aggressiveness some look for). But that is what was good in some way; at least people had the choice of Mercedes, Audi and BMW when it came to buying something specifically more focused to their taste; I wonder what those that are into how the previous generation of Mercedes looked for will opt for if they will be in the market for a new car in the coming years; or maybe they will buy it just because it is called a Mercedes . The exterior of the W223 does not, especially not that rear, looks like odd-placed or a rear taken from another car-style and slapped on it, and a rear that is not 'Mercedes S-Class' at all but more like a dull CLA, CL or CLS (so not even proper for a lower range coupe). Of course, if someone would only care about the inside then is ok, but if you worry how you look on the outside going down the road be it as a driver or for what is intended for, that is, as a rear passenger, for that cost price, maybe is a no. For those that into driving a big sedan, I do not see many from this forum itself going for that balloon looking car (really, I see them more into the 7s and A8s looks than this), and also people seem to give impression that certain car brands tend to base their design on Asian market demands, but I do not see how this one (the W223) in terms of appearance will sell because this one looks one that Mercedes try fit in bits of what many markets asked, but it came out like a potato-couch wearing sports sunglasses and sports clothes with a futuristic inside in terms of appearance. It seems more like it will sell for its tech till others catch-up, and by then it will already require a facelift.

[Rknlimo]

I just came from a 2017 E300 and really liked the look of that car, I did not care for the facelift they just did to it though. The W222 is also a good looking car and got ruined on the exterior with this new W223. They seemed to have grabbed the styling from the new generation CLS which I do not care for, the headlight and taillight shape is what kills it. Whoever is designing the interiors for these cars has knocked it out of the park in my opinion though. I just picked up a 2020 740 and like the exterior a lot other than the continuous light bar across the back. The interior design is where BMW seems to be lacking, they just don't seem to take any risks and shaking up the same layout they have used for several generations. That said, it is still very nice and a great upgrade from my E.

[Shantosh Seewooruttun]

Originally Posted by Rknlimo

I just came from a 2017 E300 and really liked the look of that car, I did not care for the facelift they just did to it though. The W222 is also a good looking car and got ruined on the exterior with this new W223. They seemed to have grabbed the styling from the new generation CLS which I do not care for, the headlight and taillight shape is what kills it. Whoever is designing the interiors for these cars has knocked it out of the park in my opinion though. I just picked up a 2020 740 and like the exterior a lot other than the continuous light bar across the back. The interior design is where BMW seems to be lacking, they just don't seem to take any risks and shaking up the same layout they have used for several generations. That said, it is still very nice and a great upgrade from my E.

The facelifted E-Class is just as worse if not worser than the new S-Class in terms of exterior appearance for the class it belongs to. Clearly, it does not look like Mercedes E-class at all but more like a disfigured coupe. While I would not say the new S-Class is ugly, but more like has the wrong size and shape of lights and maybe the front grill is too much swollen and rounded to be coupled with those style of lights, the facelifted E-class exterior can be said to be ugly when compared to the pre-facelift.

For the S-Class, there are also smaller details like the front badges and fake exhaust which look odd or innappropriate, especially for a car of that price. Just look at the images below. Fake exhaust on such a car as an S-Class is a no, even any Mercedes or luxury car is simply a no; either there are true visible exhausts or no visible ones at all. Some people might even get the impression that the W223 is an Asian copy-paste of parts from other cars just for the sake of including those elements. Wonder how the Maybach version will look given that it will be bigger but likely with those same coupe-style lights in the front and rear and with those two oddly-placed badges in the front. The waterfall grill and a large chrome area below in front might be the only expected things that will might make it look better, but the rear is like a lost case with those rear lights.

Briefly, I will describe the exterior appearances of those two cars (new S-class and facelifted E-Class) as 'non-harmonic' with the class they belong to and also parts like headlights and tail-lights are not harmonic with the rest of the car. The same can be said for certain cases of BMWs concerning the grills like the 4 series and a bit the 7 series face-lift. They simply look out of place or placed on the wrong car model when compared to the rest of the car. It seems that certain Mercedes and BMWs cars look less and less like what is expected from them as BMWs and Mercedes. Some models simply do not look like BMWs and Mercedes anymore in certain views. 4 series minus the half angel eyes look like an Alfa Romeo from the front while W223 minus the standing star and the grill looks like a mixture of Jaguar and Maserati with an added bloat for the front and Asian for the rear. Some might call these changes revolutionary, but revolutionary does not obligatory mean appropriate, right-looking, harmonic or desirable.

[Mile muncher]

The W223 uses piano black to an excessive degree in the interior. Surfaces that were leather in the W222 are now piano black in the W223. Many of these surfaces are common touch points. This is a step back in luxury. I expect these non leather surfaces to creak, a problem endemic to many Mercedes sedans.

Even the power window switchgear looks cheaper compared to the W222. The new S class, while sure to drive well, seems to suffer from cost cutting related to Mercedes ongoing dieselgate fines (BMW is suffering far fewer losses in this regard), the expensive transition to electrification, and an acute focus on tech development.

[NewQ]

The new S is growing on me.

I figured that might happen, since it was the same way with the W222 at first.

I still prefer some of the details of the current generation (especially pre-facelift), but the more I see the new one, the more the current one looks like the sheet metal is less well-fitted to the body. The W223 has a tighter look.

I'm not wild about the grille and taillights though. They're inoffensive to me now, but they look generic compared to the current generation.

On the inside, I'm still up in the air. 85% of the interior is a knock-out win, but the center air vents and the tacked-on look of the instrument panel let it down for me.

I also agree with the piano black. It's not so bad on the door areas for me, but the entire center console is covered in it, and that's a thumbs down for me. Unless it's true "piano black", i.e., heavily lacquered black wood, but that seems unlikely.

[SW17LS]

Just thought I would update on my decision between the S560 and the 750, I've decided on the 750.

[Epiplatys]

Congrats! Since I've traveled the same route, I can relate to the process. While both are fantastic and anyone would be happy with either, the 750 is the better car of these two. It is also undervalued by the market so it is easier to get a better deal.

[SW17LS]

The deal is a big part of it, the 750 is monthly on a 36 month what the S560 is on a 48 month. Being able to get exactly what I want is a big part of it too, where I would be living without options I want in an S560.