2015 Tokyo Motor Show: BMW 740Li

[Bimmerbandit]

Agreed

[luvthestck]

Originally Posted by vladberca

This car can be ordered with shadow line trim, like in the pic posted by Scott.
It's just a matter of taste and there are plenty of options!
Not yet available Individual + M Sport, the best combo on every BMW model
The Merc is way behind in terms of advanced tech

I am not supporting merc but wonder what advanced tech you are talking about in the G11 that's actually useful.Theres a fine line between advanced tech and gimmick.G11 has a lot of the latter for sure.

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

In Germany the press are unanimous. It beats the S-Klasse.

How can fans of BMWs say this is not an awesome looking car. Very well done and very evolutionary design. Tell me you don't see elements of every great looking BMW sedan.

It's 20 years later and you can still quite obviously detect the DNA from the e46, among others.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by luvthestck

I am not supporting merc but wonder what advanced tech you are talking about in the G11 that's actually useful.Theres a fine line between advanced tech and gimmick.G11 has a lot of the latter for sure.

They said that about the original iDrive in 2001.
Now everybody has a similar system, it will be the same for Gesture control also.

[X3paul]

In the uk the press are unanimous. The jags - xe xf paceman - beat the bimmers (3, 5, x). All your statment means is that bmw pays more to the press in germany than Jag pays the press in the uk. Btw I like the new 7. I even had something to do with it. Remember the cheap plastic trim around the seat controls on the official pics ? I had that changed by bmw itself! I will post the before and after later. Also nice to see bmw using audi style wheels. Again something I pointed out to yourself ages ago about the time audi launched its a3 cabrio. I have to say I think you owe me some for all the ideas you are borrowing from me. Next remember the seats in M models. Again check the new m2 seats and the rs seats. Bmw should be ashamed. I would

[X3paul]

there you go if you though I was wrong. I keep telling you. bMW does not have to make a fool of themselfes. hire me and I will save bmw´s face and will make you save millions with expensive LCI´s - I predicted the E60 interior debacle, F25 X3 where 2 months after the car was put on sale bmw quickly made these "embelisher" trims to the cupholders and plastic trim around the air vents etc etc ( I could be here all day) all of this when the official pics came out.

[X3paul]

shit almost forgot...engine covers. BMW vs merc vs audi. Shame

[Krod301]

Hey Scott,

Any idea why they put the blind spot warning triangle in the mirror this time instead of the inside of the mirror housing?

I feel like it distracts other people when they see the lit triangle in the mirror like most cars have these days. I know I look at them when passing by.

[jlstyle]

I liked it better in person than looking at these awful photos.
Car did not feel luxurious but it did feel better than outgoing model in terms of stance and elegance.

[TheBry]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

How can fans of BMWs say this is not an awesome looking car. Very well done and very evolutionary design. Tell me you don't see elements of every great looking BMW sedan.

It's 20 years later and you can still quite obviously detect the DNA from the e46, among others.

Totally agree with the above. I was hoping the new car wouldn't be a "radical" departure from the F01 / F02, and got my wish. It's a nice "modernized" evolution of what was already a great design.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

They said that about the original iDrive in 2001.
Now everybody has a similar system, it will be the same for Gesture control also.

And they also said horrible things about the "Bangle Butt" the same year, then promptly watched other auto makers duplicate that design element (I think Mercedes was the first to copy that in the S-Class that followed the E65 / E66 introduction). What's funny is that despite all the complaining about the tech (and styling) that generation 7 Series broke sales records for that class of car. People voted with their wallets

Originally Posted by Krod301

Hey Scott,

Any idea why they put the blind spot warning triangle in the mirror this time instead of the inside of the mirror housing?

I feel like it distracts other people when they see the lit triangle in the mirror like most cars have these days. I know I look at them when passing by.

I agree (and, like you, also drive a F02 740Li). I liked the triangle being visible only to the driver. I'm guessing they moved it for safety reasons. Think about it -- when we use that feature on our cars, we have to look in the mirror to see if the adjacent lane is clear, then slightly take our focus OFF the mirror to see if the triangle is illuminated. With it being nested IN the mirror now, we get all that information in one glance. Still, I agree it's not as elegant a solution as the one in our existing cars.

[BaLLzZz]

Seriously the engine covers lol?

Anyway not my type of car but this 7 IMHO has finally outshined the king(s550) in this segment. Yes some new stuff is gimmicky but much is far ahead of what's currently offered. Granted this is the new kid on the block but just the carbon core alone sets it FARRRR apart from the competition.

The fit and finish on the interior has finally surpassed the s550. Not by much and the proof is in the details but still ahead by a notch or two. The drive as always is far ahead of the merc. They are all great cars and leaving the tesla model s out of this argument I think the new 750i is the king of the hill. Remember Audi has a new a8 coming soon until then I think this new 7 will put the comp to shame in sales and reviews.

Great job BMW!

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by BaLLzZz

Seriously the engine covers lol?

Anyway not my type of car but this 7 IMHO has finally outshined the king(s550) in this segment. Yes some new stuff is gimmicky but much is far ahead of what's currently offered. Granted this is the new kid on the block but just the carbon core alone sets it FARRRR apart from the competition.

I don't mean this post to come off as rude or anything but everyone keeps saying this, that BMW is so ahead. Can someone please enlighten me what the G11 7er offers that the S-Klasse doesn't? The only thing that BMW has that is obvious are carbon core, gestures (but that's more of a gimmick, something that is there but isn't critical) and auto park via key fob.

Everything else, it seems like the S-Klasse has its own version of the same feature/tech.

[nextceo]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

I don't mean this post to come off as rude or anything but everyone keeps saying this, that BMW is so ahead. Can someone please enlighten me what the G11 7er offers that the S-Klasse doesn't? The only thing that BMW has that is obvious are carbon core, gestures (but that's more of a gimmick, something that is there but isn't critical) and auto park via key fob.

Everything else, it seems like the S-Klasse has its own version of the same feature/tech.

Let see a Loaded S550 vs a Loaded 750
Let's assume 120k. Using the version I ordered which is in a different thread.

BMW has all of these features that the Mercedes doesn't have:

BMW's engine is faster
BMW has a touch screen interface
BMW has gesture control
BMW has ceramic control knobs
BMW has rear wheel that turn for a much tighter turning radius
BMW has road scanning for smoother ride
BMW has awesome looking Panoramic Sunroof
BMW has wireless charging for my phone
BMW has a much larger and better Heads up display
BMW has a tablet in the back seat for passenger controls
BMW has better gas mileage
BMW has welcome lighting
BMW has a display key
BMW has Wi-Fi Hot spot
BMW includes Service...Savings of over $2500 vs Mercedes


Call some of these items gimmicky but at the end of the day, you get them for the same price. If you don't like them, then don't use them.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by nextceo

Let see a Loaded S550 vs a Loaded 750
Let's assume 120k. Using the version I ordered which is in a different thread.

BMW has all of these features that the Mercedes doesn't have:


Call some of these items gimmicky but at the end of the day, you get them for the same price. If you don't like them, then don't use them.

BMW has a touch screen interface
BMW has gesture control
BMW has wireless charging for my phone
BMW has a tablet in the back seat for passenger controls
BMW has a display key

BMW has rear wheel that turn for a much tighter turning radius (negligible)
BMW's engine is faster (negligible)
BMW has ceramic control knobs (I said tech not materials, S-Class uses aluminum)
BMW has road scanning for smoother ride (Mercedes Magic Body Control)
BMW has awesome looking Panoramic Sunroof (S-Class has this)
BMW has a much larger and better Heads up display (S-Class has this)
BMW has better gas mileage (negligible)
BMW has welcome lighting (really?)
BMW has Wi-Fi Hot spot (Mercedes mbrace)

So from the list you provided and what I already mentioned above, sure BMW has some cool tech stuff Mercedes doesn't have but it's primarily related to the infotainment system which is nice to have but not critical to the car. So how is the 7er so much more advanced? Because it has gesture control and its more convenient to control entertainment via a tablet? Some of the stuff you listed you didn't even know Mercedes had. Also, I'm not concerned with price vs. trim. I just want to know flat out, what stuff does BMW have that Mercedes doesn't regardless of which model you buy? From your list, doesn't seem like much.

[nextceo]

[QUOTE=TheBingoBalls;18834836]BMW has a touch screen interface
BMW has gesture control
BMW has wireless charging for my phone
BMW has a tablet in the back seat for passenger controls
BMW has a display key



BMW has rear wheel that turn for a much tighter turning radius (negligible)
NOT - Apparently you've never driven an S Class - It turns like a School Bus

BMW's engine is faster (negligible)
NOT - People pay for $20,000+ to receive the next step-up in Engine Performance all the time to shave off a 1/2 second on the 0-60 acceleration time

BMW has ceramic control knobs (I said tech not materials, S-Class uses aluminum)
OK - But I'm paying 120K - Give me the best materials.

BMW has road scanning for smoother ride (Mercedes Magic Body Control)
NOT - You cant get Magic Ride and all wheel drive on the same car on a Mercedes

BMW has awesome looking Panoramic Sunroof (S-Class has this)
NOT - Mercedes does NOT have a Sun Roof with 15,000 etchings in it

BMW has a much larger and better Heads up display (S-Class has this)
NOT - Do your homework - BMW has a 75% larger heads up display than anyone else - Plus BMW's graphics are far superior.

BMW has better gas mileage (negligible)
NOT - People chose cars all the time because they have better gas mileage

BMW has welcome lighting (really?)
I would much rather have a car with this feature then without it. I'm paying 120K for a car...give me this feature.

BMW has Wi-Fi Hot spot (Mercedes mbrace)
Yeah, if you enjoy paying $350 a year for MBrace.

Its clearly apparent you don't like BMWs so you probably should go hang out at the Mercedes Benz Forums...

Good Day!

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by nextceo

BMW has a touch screen interface
BMW has gesture control
BMW has wireless charging for my phone
BMW has a tablet in the back seat for passenger controls
BMW has a display key



BMW has rear wheel that turn for a much tighter turning radius (negligible)
NOT - Apparently you've never driven an S Class - It turns like a School Bus

BMW's engine is faster (negligible)
NOT - People pay for $20,000+ to receive the next step-up in Engine Performance all the time to shave off a 1/2 second on the 0-60 acceleration time

BMW has ceramic control knobs (I said tech not materials, S-Class uses aluminum)
OK - But I'm paying 120K - Give me the best materials.

BMW has road scanning for smoother ride (Mercedes Magic Body Control)
NOT - You cant get Magic Ride and all wheel drive on the same car on a Mercedes

BMW has awesome looking Panoramic Sunroof (S-Class has this)
NOT - Mercedes does NOT have a Sun Roof with 15,000 etchings in it

BMW has a much larger and better Heads up display (S-Class has this)
NOT - Do your homework - BMW has a 75% larger heads up display than anyone else - Plus BMW's graphics are far superior.

BMW has better gas mileage (negligible)
NOT - People chose cars all the time because they have better gas mileage

BMW has welcome lighting (really?)
I would much rather have a car with this feature then without it. I'm paying 120K for a car...give me this feature.

BMW has Wi-Fi Hot spot (Mercedes mbrace)
Yeah, if you enjoy paying $350 a year for MBrace.

Its clearly apparent you don't like BMWs so you probably should go hang out at the Mercedes Benz Forums...

Good Day!

And clearly you're a fanboy that doesn't understand the discussion being had in this thread. I didn't ask which car implemented a feature better. The argument here is that many people think that the 7er has all this stuff that Mercedes doesn't. I don't care if BMW has the best HUD. Whether or not you have to pay for an option of feature doesn't matter. When you break everything down, there is very little that BMW offers that Mercedes doesn't period.

Can't believe floor lights were mentioned in this conversation. Like floor lights make the 7er more advanced than the S-Class that doesn't have it.

[BaLLzZz]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

And clearly you're a fanboy that doesn't understand the discussion being had in this thread. I didn't ask which car implemented a feature better. The argument here is that many people think that the 7er has all this stuff that Mercedes doesn't. I don't care if BMW has the best HUD. Whether or not you have to pay for an option of feature doesn't matter. When you break everything down, there is very little that BMW offers that Mercedes doesn't period.

Can't believe floor lights were mentioned in this conversation. Like floor lights make the 7er more advanced than the S-Class that doesn't have it.

As stated previously they are all extremely similar BUT and a big BUT the new 7 series outshines the completion rightfully so(it's the new kid on the block).

You keep asking how and why which is completely fair. To keep is as simple as possible I will put the huge things that stand out to me if I was buying this vehicle for my family.

1. Carbon Core - Seems amazing as a consumer BUT what advantages does it truly offer.
- Faster Acceleration than anything in the segment
- Better braking than anything in the segment
- Best handling in the segment(via slalom testing)
- I can feel closer to my exotics when I am in extreme luxury(lol)

2. Assist & Assist + - Not to get into crazy detail I understand the Mercedes has about 85% of this tech but in the world of tech we all know the newer the better. Again if I am in market in this segment I think this alone sways me if I am into all the extreme intrusive safety tech. Not to mention in Euro markets the car can park itself all from a display key that no other manufacture in the world has yet to offer.

3. BMW Assist & Maintenance - Second to none in the industry regardless of model but the new 7 takes it to a lexus+ esq level. Owners of the new 7 will receive any car of there choice to take for a weekend twice a year. They will receive valet pick and drop off service with only 7 series loaners. They will receive 2 BMW spa treatments per year. BMW concierge as well via sos. UNLIKE ANY OTHER MANUFACTURE ITS ALL FREE!!!!!

4. Gesture/Wireless Charging/NFC Tech - This is all next level tech with the new 7 bringing it to auto market before any competitors. Usually in life its always better to lead then follow. The few times its not its still better to take a chance then roll over and die.

Now personally I can go on and on BUT please understand <65% of anything I say is subjective. You have your choice in what vehicle you think is better and or purchase. Otherwise we would all be driving VW Bugs. If you ask me on 10/31/15 the new 7 is 15-20% better than anything currently offered on the market in the segment. Disclaimer that's my opinion and you are entitled to your own.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by BaLLzZz

As stated previously they are all extremely similar BUT and a big BUT the new 7 series outshines the completion rightfully so(it's the new kid on the block).

You keep asking how and why which is completely fair. To keep is as simple as possible I will put the huge things that stand out to me if I was buying this vehicle for my family.

1. Carbon Core - Seems amazing as a consumer BUT what advantages does it truly offer.
- Faster Acceleration than anything in the segment
- Better braking than anything in the segment
- Best handling in the segment(via slalom testing)
- I can feel closer to my exotics when I am in extreme luxury(lol)

2. Assist & Assist + - Not to get into crazy detail I understand the Mercedes has about 85% of this tech but in the world of tech we all know the newer the better. Again if I am in market in this segment I think this alone sways me if I am into all the extreme intrusive safety tech. Not to mention in Euro markets the car can park itself all from a display key that no other manufacture in the world has yet to offer.

3. BMW Assist & Maintenance - Second to none in the industry regardless of model but the new 7 takes it to a lexus+ esq level. Owners of the new 7 will receive any car of there choice to take for a weekend twice a year. They will receive valet pick and drop off service with only 7 series loaners. They will receive 2 BMW spa treatments per year. BMW concierge as well via sos. UNLIKE ANY OTHER MANUFACTURE ITS ALL FREE!!!!!

4. Gesture/Wireless Charging/NFC Tech - This is all next level tech with the new 7 bringing it to auto market before any competitors. Usually in life its always better to lead then follow. The few times its not its still better to take a chance then roll over and die.

Now personally I can go on and on BUT please understand <65% of anything I say is subjective. You have your choice in what vehicle you think is better and or purchase. Otherwise we would all be driving VW Bugs. If you ask me on 10/31/15 the new 7 is 15-20% better than anything currently offered on the market in the segment. Disclaimer that's my opinion and you are entitled to your own.

Thanks for a proper response with things that are actually relevant and not putting things that you prefer as a preference.

Like I mentioned in my original post to this thread, I mentioned that BMW has used important tech like Carbon Core but everything else, while it is cool, are just more convenient and centre around iDrive/infotainment:

• Gesture Control
• Wireless charging
• Display key
• LED "light carpet"
• 7-inch Command Tablet
• Active kidney grille

I'm not dismissing any of these features of irrelevant but they're not exactly groundbreaking in anyway, again most are just "gimmicks", small little things. From all the comments I've read here, it's like the 7er is this car no one has ever seen before with all the features until you really break it down and it's not that extensive with the only significant features being Carbon Core and the display key. Again, it's not relevant if you have to pay for the same feature with the S-Class - I'm not talking about value.

I'm not here to argue, I just wanted to see if there were anything that I missed that backs up the claim that the 7er is a lot more advanced than the S-Class. If you think the items listed above put the 7er so ahead of the S-Class, that's cool. But I'm sure that there are other people here on the forum would agree that it's not as advanced as people made the 7er to be (like when they said the interior was on par with the Rolls Royce, not even close.).

[BaLLzZz]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Thanks for a proper response with things that are actually relevant and not putting things that you prefer as a preference.

Like I mentioned in my original post to this thread, I mentioned that BMW has used important tech like Carbon Core but everything else, while it is cool, are just more convenient and centre around iDrive/infotainment:

• Gesture Control
• Wireless charging
• Display key
• LED "light carpet"
• 7-inch Command Tablet
• Active kidney grille

I'm not dismissing any of these features of irrelevant but they're not exactly groundbreaking in anyway, again most are just "gimmicks", small little things. From all the comments I've read here, it's like the 7er is this car no one has ever seen before with all the features until you really break it down and it's not that extensive with the only significant features being Carbon Core and the display key. Again, it's not relevant if you have to pay for the same feature with the S-Class - I'm not talking about value.

I'm not here to argue, I just wanted to see if there were anything that I missed that backs up the claim that the 7er is a lot more advanced than the S-Class. If you think the items listed above put the 7er so ahead of the S-Class, that's cool. But I'm sure that there are other people here on the forum would agree that it's not as advanced as people made the 7er to be (like when they said the interior was on par with the Rolls Royce, not even close.).

Anytime.

I think you are missing something major and downplaying it even further. A car is a car. Powered by electric/steam/gas/diesel/cng etc there all "just" cars. Especially in the ultra luxury super yacht segment the 7 finds itself in what exactly would be something that would WOW you? Since there inception the flagship vehicle has always displayed the companies most intuitive offerings.

We can start with airbags to xexon headlights to cd players to different types of materials etc etc the list will never end. Does the difference between nappa and Dakota warrant one to call it "gimmicky".

This new 7 has 13+ "Offerings" never seen or available in ANY automobile before this one. I would say that is simply amazing especially in 2015 where idea to production is lighting fast compared to just 10-15 years ago.

I think what I am trying to say is and I am younger than you I would imagine >30, everything seems "gimmicky" when its first introduced. Hard top cv's serve a purpose but what was wrong with rag tops. Halogen lights were fine even though xexons were 70% brighter and focused. My thought with anything in life is we can always be content with a perfectly working system BUT where is the evolution and fun in that?

Yes the new 7 may have some things that seem "Gimmicky" NOW but I promise you 20-30% of those gimmicks get copied and used in other applications throughout the industry. That form of flattery alone would make me happy as CEO of BMW in this case.

Within the few last posts I don't disagree with your actual usefulness of some offerings but I do disagree with your thinking. Remember you may think A and me B but outside of quantitative data to compare its all the way you view it.

Its also somewhat hard to not take value into account when we are talking about a consumer product when A has 20% less than B and there equally priced. If price didn't make one car better than the other we wouldn't have all the different segments we have that cater to all different people from all different walks of life. NO ONE NEEDS A 110k X5///M or MB GLE63 technically a Chevy traverse will handle the same urban duties. What are all the "gimmicks" that make those two vehicle 400% more expensive? Hope that helps a bit.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by BaLLzZz

Anytime.

I think you are missing something major and downplaying it even further. A car is a car. Powered by electric/steam/gas/diesel/cng etc there all "just" cars. Especially in the ultra luxury super yacht segment the 7 finds itself in what exactly would be something that would WOW you? Since there inception the flagship vehicle has always displayed the companies most intuitive offerings.

We can start with airbags to xexon headlights to cd players to different types of materials etc etc the list will never end. Does the difference between nappa and Dakota warrant one to call it "gimmicky".

This new 7 has 13+ "Offerings" never seen or available in ANY automobile before this one. I would say that is simply amazing especially in 2015 where idea to production is lighting fast compared to just 10-15 years ago.

I think what I am trying to say is and I am younger than you I would imagine >30, everything seems "gimmicky" when its first introduced. Hard top cv's serve a purpose but what was wrong with rag tops. Halogen lights were fine even though xexons were 70% brighter and focused. My thought with anything in life is we can always be content with a perfectly working system BUT where is the evolution and fun in that?

Yes the new 7 may have some things that seem "Gimmicky" NOW but I promise you 20-30% of those gimmicks get copied and used in other applications throughout the industry. That form of flattery alone would make me happy as CEO of BMW in this case.

Within the few last posts I don't disagree with your actual usefulness of some offerings but I do disagree with your thinking. Remember you may think A and me B but outside of quantitative data to compare its all the way you view it.

Its also somewhat hard to not take value into account when we are talking about a consumer product when A has 20% less than B and there equally priced. If price didn't make one car better than the other we wouldn't have all the different segments we have that cater to all different people from all different walks of life. NO ONE NEEDS A 110k X5///M or MB GLE63 technically a Chevy traverse will handle the same urban duties. What are all the "gimmicks" that make those two vehicle 400% more expensive? Hope that helps a bit.

Good explanation. I understand what you're saying but I think it comes down to how you look everything. Features like LED floor lights, gesture controls etc. are all nice to have, but would you be upset if the car didn't have it? I'm guessing no. Sure it's something to differentiate Car A from Car B but I wouldn't use those as examples to argue that the new 7er is way more advanced than the S-Class. But when you mention Carbon Core and display keys, those are technologies you want to mention because they actually move the segment further and are a lot more significant than the infotainment stuff.

Again, I'm in no way diminishing the 7er. It does has things that the S-Class doesn't with the most important being Carbon Core but when I read stuff where people are over exaggerating how much more advanced it is over the S-Class, it's not that much more advanced. I'm sure I can dig up things that the S-Class has that the 7er doesn't.

So personal opinion, is the 7er a lot more advanced than the S-Class? Sure but not by a lot. Is it better value with all the those small bells and whistles? Sure.