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      08-07-2018, 06:53 AM   #1
Never_Enough
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Angry Volkswagen lease? Never again

Got a good offer from Carmax for my 2017 Jetta so went back to sell it to them yesterday. I already had all the payoff info from VWC. Carmax needed VWC to verify. Carmax calls & VWC faxes over a letter with a payoff $1,800 higher than what I was told.

I call and they tell me call the dealer I bought the car from after talking with 3 or 4 different people that didn't know anything & told me it was b/c Carmax has to pay tax since it's not me paying it off then I'm told Carmax has to buy it for FMV.

Call dealer & talk to finance guy. He said that $1,800 higher price is wrong, but doesn't know what $ is right & also says they are probably asking for FMV.

WTF?! The payoff is the payoff, it doesn't matter who is mailing you the damn check! I'm going to call VWC again today & fight some more, but looks like they are screwing me into keeping this car until I sell it privately. I have good friends that were in the car business for many years & even they say this is bs & wrong.

:mad0 260:

UPDATE:
So I just had a good friend that was in the car business for many years call VWC & they are essentially trapping lease clients in their cars. They told him when you try to sell the car to a dealership, VW Financial exercises their actual ownership of the vehicle. As such, they want the dealer to pay "fair market value", which has nothing to do with what I owe on it.

I will never do business with VW Financial again

Last edited by Never_Enough; 08-07-2018 at 09:24 AM..
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      08-07-2018, 07:00 AM   #2
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The payoff should be in black and white right on your paperwork. Not much wiggle room there.

FWIW, I've dealt with VW on a lease transfer and it was a total shit show. They also botched a final payoff that dropped my credit score by nearly 100 points. It has since been fixed and they acknowledged the error but it should never have happened in the first place.

Very poorly run company.
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      08-07-2018, 07:17 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
The payoff should be in black and white right on your paperwork. Not much wiggle room there.

FWIW, I've dealt with VW on a lease transfer and it was a total shit show. They also botched a final payoff that dropped my credit score by nearly 100 points. It has since been fixed and they acknowledged the error but it should never have happened in the first place.

Very poorly run company.
Exactly. Payoff is the payoff regardless of where the $ comes from. It's all green.
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      08-07-2018, 07:53 AM   #4
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I have nearly two decades of managing auto dealerships before moving into my current career, including about 5 years with VW.

Your early buyout figure on your lease is very straight forward. It will be:

The residual value of the vehicle at the conclusion of the lease, which will be stated on your LAW or Lease contract. In addition, you will need to add any early termination fees and vehicle purchase fees. There will usually be one, or both and they will be clearly spelled out on your contract. When I was with VW, the early termination fee was $495 and the vehicle purchase fee was $195, but this may have changed. Finally, you will need to add in all of your remaining payments, backing out the money factor (interest rate). You will not pay the money factor on the remaining payments, as the contract will be calculated via simple interest, and you will only pay that during the actual use of the vehicle. This will also be spelled out on your contract - there will be somewhere where it says 'base payment' plus 'rent charge' plus 'monthly taxes' and then gives you the final total monthly payment. You will need to add all the remaining 'base payment' amounts to the above numbers and this will give you your final early buyout price.

Whether you trade the car in, buy it yourself, sell it to a private party - none of this matters.
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      08-07-2018, 07:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
I have nearly two decades of managing auto dealerships before moving into my current career, including about 5 years with VW.

Your early buyout figure on your lease is very straight forward. It will be:

The residual value of the vehicle at the conclusion of the lease, which will be stated on your LAW or Lease contract. In addition, you will need to add any early termination fees and vehicle purchase fees. There will usually be one, or both and they will be clearly spelled out on your contract. When I was with VW, the early termination fee was $495 and the vehicle purchase fee was $195, but this may have changed. Finally, you will need to add in all of your remaining payments, backing out the money factor (interest rate). You will not pay the money factor on the remaining payments, as the contract will be calculated via simple interest, and you will only pay that during the actual use of the vehicle. This will also be spelled out on your contract - there will be somewhere where it says 'base payment' plus 'rent charge' plus 'monthly taxes' and then gives you the final total monthly payment. You will need to add all the remaining 'base payment' amounts to the above numbers and this will give you your final early buyout price.

Whether you trade the car in, buy it yourself, sell it to a private party - none of this matters.
I'll have to look at it when I get home, but they can shove any bs fees they want to add. They should have included that in the payoff amount. First & last VW.
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      08-07-2018, 09:23 AM   #6
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So I just had a good friend that was in the car business for many years call VWC & they are essentially trapping lease clients in their cars. They told him when you try to sell the car to a dealership, VW Financial exercises their actual ownership of the vehicle. As such, they want the dealer to pay "fair market value", which has nothing to do with what I owe on it.

I will never do business with VW Financial again
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      08-07-2018, 09:29 AM   #7
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Worth noting that pre 2018 VW's got hammered on value when they doubled the warranty in 2018. My 2017 lost about $5k over night. Maybe start parking on wobbly parking structures? Worked for me.
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      08-07-2018, 09:36 AM   #8
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I considered buying an R-line Atlas 4motion for my wife as a car that could get beat on with our kids, and my dealership experience was fucking horrific! Not to mention looking back that car is incredibly underpowered, worse than jeeps are!

Had the GM at a dealer in North Tx pull a bait and switch on me after I paid my deposit to secure the car, they raised the price $5k when I got there and when called on it the told me "because we can". I told him I drove the 4 hrs to pick it up pay 2 year lease up front and trailer it back and that if I wouldnt have done such if I knew they were playing a game and they were violating false advertising laws in TX. His response was that's fine have a lawyer send me a letter, and had the nerve to tell me that he suspected me of trying to commit fraud with them since I brought up the fact that it would've been less hassle to just buy one I saw in DC and have it shipped to Texas. The fool said that made no sense to him, and there are plenty of VW dealerships in Texas to shop from.

Drove back home after getting my deposit back, and sent the GM the Texas State Statutes regarding deceptive sales practices.

Contacted the Texas AG office with all the information and they started a claim.
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      08-07-2018, 09:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
So I just had a good friend that was in the car business for many years call VWC & they are essentially trapping lease clients in their cars. They told him when you try to sell the car to a dealership, VW Financial exercises their actual ownership of the vehicle. As such, they want the dealer to pay "fair market value", which has nothing to do with what I owe on it.

I will never do business with VW Financial again
Not saying this isn't the case, but it seems a dubious claim. This would be outright illegal in nearly every state. I feel there is some attempt at something or another with all the issues you are having, but I think there must be a solution, since they cannot legally say the payoff is different from one buyer to another.
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      08-07-2018, 09:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Blackscreen67 View Post
I considered buying an R-line Atlas 4motion for my wife as a car that could get beat on with our kids, and my dealership experience was fucking horrific! Not to mention looking back that car is incredibly underpowered, worse than jeeps are!

Had the GM at a dealer in North Tx pull a bait and switch on me after I paid my deposit to secure the car, they raised the price $5k when I got there and when called on it the told me "because we can". I told him I drove the 4 hrs to pick it up pay 2 year lease up front and trailer it back and that if I wouldnt have done such if I knew they were playing a game and they were violating false advertising laws in TX. His response was that's fine have a lawyer send me a letter, and had the nerve to tell me that he suspected me of trying to commit fraud with them since I brought up the fact that it would've been less hassle to just buy one I saw in DC and have it shipped to Texas. The fool said that made no sense to him, and there are plenty of VW dealerships in Texas to shop from.

Drove back home after getting my deposit back, and sent the GM the Texas State Statutes regarding deceptive sales practices.

Contacted the Texas AG office with all the information and they started a claim.
Wow, that is some shit. I contacted the PA AG office on my case earlier today
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      08-07-2018, 10:08 AM   #11
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      08-07-2018, 10:19 AM   #12
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I'm just paying the car off myself then I'll sell to Carmax & put the $ back in the bank. Fuck VW.
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      08-07-2018, 10:23 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
I'm just paying the car off myself then I'll sell to Carmax & put the $ back in the bank. Fuck VW.
All Euro brands are focusing on the lease route now, using similar tactics for retention.
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      08-07-2018, 10:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
I'm just paying the car off myself then I'll sell to Carmax & put the $ back in the bank. Fuck VW.
Just called to pay it off & now they also want PA tax on top of the quoted payoff amount.
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      08-07-2018, 10:44 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
Just called to pay it off & now they also want PA tax on top of the quoted payoff amount.
Well, yeah - you gotta pay sales tax bro. This shouldn't be a surprise. Although, the tax should only be on the buyout amount.
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      08-07-2018, 10:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackscreen67 View Post
...

Drove back home after getting my deposit back, and sent the GM the Texas State Statutes regarding deceptive sales practices.

Contacted the Texas AG office with all the information and they started a claim.

That's a shit show. Unfortunately, the dealership mafia in Texas is strong and nothing will probably happen. What might be just as effective is rating them on every public review site that you know of.
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      08-07-2018, 10:49 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
Well, yeah - you gotta pay sales tax bro. This shouldn't be a surprise. Although, the tax should only be on the buyout amount.
The point is that now brings my out of pocket total to close to the remaining lease payments so I will just keep it.
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      08-07-2018, 11:01 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
The point is that now brings my out of pocket total to close to the remaining lease payments so I will just keep it.
Upon lease signing isn't the taxes already collected?
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      08-07-2018, 11:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackscreen67 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
The point is that now brings my out of pocket total to close to the remaining lease payments so I will just keep it.
Upon lease signing isn't the taxes already collected?
In TX you pay sales tax on the full sales price at the start of the lease and again on the residual amount if you buy it at the end. Makes it better to just turn it in in most cases.
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      08-07-2018, 11:37 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Blackscreen67 View Post
Upon lease signing isn't the taxes already collected?
Tax is paid in each payment.
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      08-07-2018, 12:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackscreen67 View Post
Upon lease signing isn't the taxes already collected?
Tax is paid in each payment.
Yikes. If you don't pay it upfront. I just always pay my TT&L in cash, don't like to give the state government any interest. Would rather just pay it to smog cheating Germans.
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      08-07-2018, 12:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never_Enough View Post
Just called to pay it off & now they also want PA tax on top of the quoted payoff amount.
Of course you are now purchasing the car. Just like if you bought it out right in the beginning, therefore you need to pay taxes on full purchase price.
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