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      01-16-2020, 07:15 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premier3is View Post
And now here come the M owners about to say the M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category. Lol.
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      01-16-2020, 07:18 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Khrushchev View Post
All things considered, it did get a pretty significant boost of 65 horsepower and shed half a second from its 0-60 time, compared to the f30 340i. I just don't think BMW should dilute its brand and call it by that beautiful letter we all love.
I used to think the same thing until I saw the potential of the B58 engine and chassis of the M340i. I'd rather have a gorgeous M340i blacked out with downpipes and a bootmod3 custom tune doing 3.5/10.8 1/4 than that hideous predator looking M car coming out soon .

BMW M fanboys are offended their luxury car is getting diluted and all about the badge contemplating their next moves to a Tesla. Real motoren werke's enthusiasts look at the engine, chassis and the raw potential across the board M included.
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      01-16-2020, 07:21 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by premier3is View Post
And now here come the M owners about to say the M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category. Lol.
But they aren't.............

M cars are design by bmw M team, M340 isn't............

Unless there no longer is a bmw M team or bmw has changed that development process.


Here's what happened, bmw is copying Audi 10 years late like they always do. Audi S4 was competing with 340 in terms of performance and styling, but sheeps buy based on badges and stuff like that so S4 was seen as more status. So bmw upped 340 to M340 - it's that simple
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      01-16-2020, 07:22 PM   #202
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People lease a 100k car for 700$ and act if they own a Hypercar because it's a "real" M...

I don't care what VIN my car has (and I own two WBS cars) as long as it's fast and perform well!
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      01-16-2020, 07:22 PM   #203
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Having personally owned over 6 BMWs 2 of which were not real M cars and 2 'Real' M cars (M6 and M5 Competition)...there is absolutely no comparison...everything about the M cars are different; engine, transmission, gearing, throttle response, shocks, door panels, the use of aluminum, magnesium, exhaust, the look, the drive, the feel of the cars, the faster you go the better they get especially on a track....these attributes are what makes an M car an M car... never liked all the M badging...anyone who thinks otherwise has never owned an actual M car.
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      01-16-2020, 07:25 PM   #204
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I could care less about what my badge says, i bought my car for the driving experience, the engine, the transmission, the chassis and the differential. And those fender flares. I'm sort of slightly attracted to those flares.

I've honestly thought about de-badging it, but BMW marketing put so many damn Ms all over the car it would be a lot more work than just ripping the badge off the rear bumper.

If BMW wants to put the M badge on their mid-level options, they should do it. Make that cash and then keep building cars with badass engines, RWD and manual transmissions. I don't care what they call them, good cars are good cars.
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      01-16-2020, 07:27 PM   #205
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Just providing a laugh...
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      01-16-2020, 07:27 PM   #206
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Having owned an M235i and an M4, I can see why BMW did this. It is definitely part marketing ploy and part real. The way I see it is M is a performance car that tries to do all and where on the spectrum is up to the buyer. If you want a performance car that leans more luxury you have the MXXX. If you want less luxury you have the MX and even less luxury and "more" performance there is the competition, etc. BMW did not go the way of Cadillac with making the V series the lowest powered, least performing Vs to date. Bottom line is buy what you like and who really cares. The whole"M" camp is bashing on non M owners seems like some individuals are trying to reassure themselves that their car is ok. In the end no one cares what you drive other than you.
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      01-16-2020, 07:29 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
I disagree. Yes, I believe the majority of people driving around in new leased M cars are just badge snobs with more money than the badge snobs driving around in an M340, there are a lot of older M owners this is not true for.

I also disagree that older M cars are for poor people. Most anyone can walk into a dealership and sign paperwork for a $900 lease with proof of income and mediocre credit.

Not many people can hand over a $30k cashiers check for a 10 year old car. Nor can they stomach the absurd cost of maintenance.

I'm 37, self-employed, bi-coastal (live in both Florida and California), and have the title to my car in a safe. Am I rich? No. Could I walk into a BMW dealership today and take my pick? Yes.

What I'm getting at is, the type of people who simply point at an older car and blame it on lack of financial ability to procure a newer car just don't get it.

Would you point at someone in an old Porsche 356 that he just bought at auction for $200k and write him off as being poor for driving an old car?

Some M owners maintain their own cars, love a specific platform for a reason, care about heritage and legacy. They love driving a true motorsport-derived car, even if it means expensive maintenance, obsessive warm up routines, quirkiness they call "character", etc.

I drive an E92 M3 because I love German V8s and I love the M3 heritage. I read about M history, enjoy wrenching on my own car (I pay a membership fee to access a lift I use regularly and do all of my own work, aside from rod bearings).

Owning my M3 is expensive. And tedious. And time consuming. At times it's a downright hassle. But I do it enthusiastically, and it's rewarding.

It's nice to know that badge is special. Not because I care what it means to others. But as a true car enthusiast from the age of like two years old, it's a badge of pride. It reminds me that I've subscribed to an entire ownership experience and not just something neat to get from point A to point B in.

I guess badge/brand dilution doesn't really piss me off the way it does others, but it certainly doesn't help maintain the brand as a true enthusiasts brand, and my decision to drive the M3 I most desire is not reflective of what I can afford. It's reflective of how much I'm willing to participate in the ownership experience, and when I roll my eyes at non-M cars with M badges, it's is most certainly not rooted in narcissism.
I follow 100%. I own my 2015 outright, and any modification was made and paid for, upfront. At 33 with a wedding coming, house etc on the go, I would never want a large monthly payment, although I did finance for about 6 months before paying it off, completely.

I'd much rather own my shit, build it, track it etc than have a $80k + car note with mod costs on top. This is unfortunately the "millennial" world we're in, and it's only going to get worse as creditors seem to be throwing more and more money at people who will never be able to pay down their loans.

FWIW, if the F22 wasn't almost identical in size to the E46 M3 and wasn't available with an LSD, I would never have bought it as a long term keeper. But since my build is where it's at, there's currently no base BMW M car that appeals to me enough to move into one at the prices that they're sitting at.

What I do lick my lips over is all of the depreciated M3's out there for under $50k CDN, I'd rock one as a DD as opposed to my typical VW counterparts anytime! But I wouldn't go balls into a track build, because you'd basically be redoing everything BMW already did to the car, which is pointless, imo.
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      01-16-2020, 07:30 PM   #208
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We should just roll right into a 6MT vs DCT debate at this point. Any other hot topics to argue about? Maybe e9x rod bearings? Oil brand or weight.

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      01-16-2020, 07:32 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
To be fair, it's really Audi that started the ball with the dilution of the "S" designation.
Now Audi has really jumped the marketing shark because S Models are now diesels. That’s true market engineering. Slapping a desirable badge on a powertrain nobody really wants.
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      01-16-2020, 07:32 PM   #210
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I don’t understand the difference here. An M340i is still called an M340i, right? And that press release this morning of “M sales” included the M340i etc... ?
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      01-16-2020, 07:32 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
We should just roll right into a 6MT vs DCT debate at this point. Any other hot topics to argue about? Maybe e9x rod bearings? Oil brand or weight.

BMW owners
What about blinker fluid weights.
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      01-16-2020, 07:33 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghaffari46 View Post
M performance vs real m: totally different animals and bmw knows that. They may have same horse power but the power delivery, weight, chassis rolling are totally different between these 2 segments.
M performance is high performance street car, real M is a track car (. Depending your definition of track) that can be used on the street.
Whoever drives M550 vs m5, or m2 vs m240 know what I'm talking about.
I disagree there, but I see where you're coming from. I've owned 5 M-cars: 2 M3s, an M5, an M4 and an X5M.

First off, if an X5M is a "real" M car, it is definitely not built for the track. Can it do impressive things on a track? Yes, but those accomplishments will ALWAYS be conditioned by the phrase "for an SAV". It's not a pure track car. For anyone.

And...last November I went to Barber Motorsports for a Porsche driving clinic (my 3rd opportunity to do this). I can honestly say that when a Porsche is on a track, it looks and feels like it belongs there. I can't say that for any of my M cars. They always felt like amazingly capable compromises...but compromises nonetheless.

Yes, they do amazing things. But I've never looked at (or driven) an M car and thought "this car truly belongs on a track".

Many will disagree, which is the beauty of forums like this. But that's my opinion.
I agree. I've driven an M3 e92 and Porsche Cayman S and while the e92 feels great on track, the Cayman S felt better...however, for a daily / track car, it's hard to beat the M3 as an option. As a daily the M was significantly more comfortable (IMO) than the Porsche. Trade-offs.
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      01-16-2020, 07:33 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
We should just roll right into a 6MT vs DCT debate at this point. Any other hot topics to argue about? Maybe e9x rod bearings? Oil brand or weight.

BMW owners
Financing vs lease maybe? as above...lol
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      01-16-2020, 07:33 PM   #214
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I really don’t want to get involved in this, but am going to anyways. I don’t really care what they call it but I’m going to throw this out here. Previous to the M2c I had a M235i. It was a fantastic car and owners should be proud of it. But the difference between the M235i and a M2 is significant in terms of driving experience. It’s hard for me to believe that BMW classifies them as the same, but it’s their company. Instead I would suggest drive both (if there is a direct comparison available) and I think you’ll see it’s a vastly different experience.

The important thing is that you get the car that YOU want to drive. Not the car that you want other people to perceive you as.
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      01-16-2020, 07:34 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
I disagree. Yes, I believe the majority of people driving around in new leased M cars are just badge snobs with more money than the badge snobs driving around in an M340, there are a lot of older M owners this is not true for.

I also disagree that older M cars are for poor people. Most anyone can walk into a dealership and sign paperwork for a $900 lease with proof of income and mediocre credit.

Not many people can hand over a $30k cashiers check for a 10 year old car. Nor can they stomach the absurd cost of maintenance.

I'm 37, self-employed, bi-coastal (live in both Florida and California), and have the title to my car in a safe. Am I rich? No. Could I walk into a BMW dealership today and take my pick? Yes.

What I'm getting at is, the type of people who simply point at an older car and blame it on lack of financial ability to procure a newer car just don't get it.

Would you point at someone in an old Porsche 356 that he just bought at auction for $200k and write him off as being poor for driving an old car?

Some M owners maintain their own cars, love a specific platform for a reason, care about heritage and legacy. They love driving a true motorsport-derived car, even if it means expensive maintenance, obsessive warm up routines, quirkiness they call "character", etc.

I drive an E92 M3 because I love German V8s and I love the M3 heritage. I read about M history, enjoy wrenching on my own car (I pay a membership fee to access a lift I use regularly and do all of my own work, aside from rod bearings).

Owning my M3 is expensive. And tedious. And time consuming. At times it's a downright hassle. But I do it enthusiastically, and it's rewarding.

It's nice to know that badge is special. Not because I care what it means to others. But as a true car enthusiast from the age of like two years old, it's a badge of pride. It reminds me that I've subscribed to an entire ownership experience and not just something neat to get from point A to point B in.

I guess badge/brand dilution doesn't really piss me off the way it does others, but it certainly doesn't help maintain the brand as a true enthusiasts brand, and my decision to drive the M3 I most desire is not reflective of what I can afford. It's reflective of how much I'm willing to participate in the ownership experience, and when I roll my eyes at non-M cars with M badges, it's is most certainly not rooted in narcissism.
This.
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      01-16-2020, 07:34 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by NUTScapes View Post
Now Audi has really jumped the marketing shark because S Models are now diesels. That’s true market engineering. Slapping a desirable badge on a powertrain nobody really wants.
Till couple years ago everyone was driving a diesel in Europe...lol
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      01-16-2020, 07:35 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Scanning through this thread the non-M owners seem wayyyy more angry for some reason. I keep seeing the term "insecure" thrown around for some reason but perhaps it is just projection?
Why would we be angry, there's no reason for M340i owners to be angry. The F80 guys are the ones outraged. It's not like we got our cars this afternoon after the news broke last night. We were minding our business enjoying our cars as we were since last year April when the car debuted.

This has no impact on us; our cars don't perform any worse or better since this news broke. The F80 guys are the one who feel cheated, blighted etc and as such are angry.
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      01-16-2020, 07:37 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
I disagree. Yes, I believe the majority of people driving around in new leased M cars are just badge snobs with more money than the badge snobs driving around in an M340, there are a lot of older M owners this is not true for.
Never judge a book by it's cover. Don't ever assume someones net worth or financial capabilities based on the car they drive. In your views, an M340i driver has more money than a 330i driver then right (since a M3 driver has more money than a M340i driver)? I could easily shut that claim down if I wanted to, but I have no need or desire to discuss my finances here.

Even though I can easily get ANY vehicle from the BMW dealership that I desire, I drive a nicely optioned 330i. There's more to life than just cars.
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      01-16-2020, 07:38 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Why would we be angry, there's no reason for M340i owners to be angry. The F80 guys are the ones outraged. It's not like we got our cars this afternoon after the news broke last night. We were minding our business enjoying our cars as we were since last year April when the car debuted.

This has no impact on us; our cars don't perform any worse or better since this news broke. The F80 guys are the one who feel cheated, blighted etc and as such are angry.
As they've been feeling since the inception of the M340i.
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      01-16-2020, 07:40 PM   #220
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After reading 8 pages, I'd add two points:

1. Even Porsche delineates within range. A base cayman is a very capable car and something many aspire to own. An S (or GTS) is even better. But all are far from a GT4.

Porsche GT4 owners aren't threatened by base Cayman owners diluting the car's brand equity.

I'd actually argue the opposite - Porsche guys realize the base cars supplement the R&D investment yielding the more extreme variants.

2. I read a lot about model topping cars. Never did the M340 occur to me as anything other than a down-the-value/capability/cost option from an M3. Same thing with the M5 vs the M550.
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