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      11-20-2020, 10:29 AM   #1
Stormbitch
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Harmon Kardon Changes - all cars

Massively noted a difference to the sound in the new 2019/20/21 7 Series G11/12
i.e. the facelift one with the grill.

My 2016 G11 sounds WAY better - its as if they have changed

The drivers / size
The power
Something else.

The lower end is less full, colder, sharper.

The bass speakers which I think are under the seat, not really subs, but ... are much much weaker in both the new 7 today over the older one.

Go back to a F Series 7 - its different again - not bad but different.

For instance.

Old 7 pre G11 - 7/10
G11 8/10 - 9/10 if you don't like hip hop or too much sub.
New 7 6.5/10 max

Benchmark - Audi Bang and Olefson - 5/10 - what a con. Horrible sound.

Anyone have ANY IDEAS WHAT THEY ARE DOING? There will be a techie on here who knows more than me.

The Harmon in the 2017-2018 5 Series is shockingly bad. Not heard the new one.

And its pretty weak in the 8 Series too.

Major off putting for buying my next car - if the sounds are bad I may aswell have an Audi - they are built better.

Mercedes systems E / C and S are now in the lead the warmth and detail with theirs is amazing - but I cant get on with their aftersales.
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      11-20-2020, 12:52 PM   #2
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My old 6 series had Bang&Olufsen and it sounds 2x better than Bowers and Wilkins in the new G series.
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      11-23-2020, 11:29 AM   #3
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I have HK in my G11 and I love it. I had Burmester in my old s5oo and it was wow indeed.
Not impressed either with BW in the g12 2020. I used to be a dj back at uni therefore music is my life and i always check the sound system.
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      11-23-2020, 03:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The7th View Post
I have HK in my G11 and I love it. I had Burmester in my old s5oo and it was wow indeed.
Not impressed either with BW in the g12 2020. I used to be a dj back at uni therefore music is my life and i always check the sound system.
B&W is a brilliant system, but it needs the "disco smile" eq setting to really bring out the bass and highs.
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      11-28-2020, 06:52 PM   #5
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The speakers in your old car were broken in. Speakers take several hours of playing to fully break in.
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      11-30-2020, 09:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavy View Post
The speakers in your old car were broken in. Speakers take several hours of playing to fully break in.
Exactly !
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      12-29-2020, 09:37 AM   #7
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Nah...

G11 Sounds lovely from the get go.

Speakers are not shoes

The drivers in the G 5 series are rubbish - F10 way better even though I upgraded anyway.

All the G series Harmon's are bad - 8 Series quite bad - 2020 7 is less good.

Going to try a G 5 series hopefully and listen and check the X5 again.
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      12-29-2020, 07:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormbitch View Post
Nah...

G11 Sounds lovely from the get go.

Speakers are not shoes

The drivers in the G 5 series are rubbish - F10 way better even though I upgraded anyway.

All the G series Harmon's are bad - 8 Series quite bad - 2020 7 is less good.

Going to try a G 5 series hopefully and listen and check the X5 again.
I've read the same complaint half an hour ago in the g20 forum. I presume that BMW got a deal with HK to install a std solution instead of the former more customised solution. I notice that a Golf VIII today also offers HK upgrades and probably it's all the same across all platforms now!?
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1781918
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      12-29-2020, 08:40 PM   #9
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I also read this about HK:
https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1781851

Any experience with it?
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      12-30-2020, 06:28 PM   #10
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A lot of what I am reading here is false, and contradicting. Not trying to crash this party, but I think it's important to note that virtually all of the HK systems use the exact same drivers, subs, and tweeters since 2010 per realOEM, save for a handful discrepancies here and there. Sorry OP

The HK amplifier is basically the exact same in every G chassis car, 65129832609. The only outlier seems to be the 65129826944, which can only be found in the 2015-2020 5 series in certain, undefined circumstances.

Speakers DO actually wear in over time, so they are just like "shoes'. They become more responsive with heavy use, and that's a big part of this. Sound is arbitrary, and a lot of your experience with the old one, or the one you own sounding better in your mind is just rosy retrospection. It's fair to say, cabin to cabin, a 3 5 or 7 will sound different due to the interior space. But plenty of other factors come into play, like sunroof open or closed, which leather option you chose, how many people are in the car, background noise level, audio source of course, and many others. Maybe there are slight tweaks in HMI software changes, but even that HU version varies greatly car to car and I can't say BMW has ever changed much there from any of the cars I've experienced at our shop (lots). Again, there are some oddball part numbers here and there, but BMW, Phillips, nor HK went out of their way to design a magical, better, cheap 4" mid-range speaker and tweeter only for X model just because you own it/drove it and you think it sounds better. A different bracket? maybe. These are mass production partsbin-sharing cars after all.

Personally, I enjoy the B&O system the most from the F15/16 cars, with the HK being a close second. And it sure would be a lie if I said those pretty stainless speaker grills, and raising center speaker don't make me feel special, just like any desirable upgrade. BMW knows this well. I Haven't experienced the BW fully yet, but looking forward to it.

If you want better, more exciting (arbitrary) sound there are aftermarket options. You won't get too much bang for your buck nit-picking the three mediocre options BMW offers you. Blast your music, get your speakers worn in real nice, and find an EQ setting that you like.

https://www.klipsch.com/blog/how-and...r-new-speakers
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      12-31-2020, 03:27 AM   #11
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Copied from another forum - this is translated from a BMW December 2020 PUMA in German. The G10 & G11 don’t seem to be effected but that seems strange when problems are being experienced !

H/K Bass and Audio Failure ‘20 / ‘21?

PUMA as of Dec 2020 for the failing H/K system with bass / sound drops. This is translated from German. A Service Bulletin should be making its way soon to the U.S. This affects a lot of models.

The PUMA measure for this is: DE 65463809-01 - 17.11.20

Only vehicles with the following special equipment (SA) are affected: ... F40, F44, F90, G01, G02, G08, G20, G21, G22, G28, G29, G30, G31, G32, G38,

With the two special equipment (optional extra):

SA 6U3 BMW LIVE COCKPIT PROFESSIONAL AND S-0688 HARMAN / KARDON SURROUND SOUND SYSTEM

A diagnosis must be carried out in the event of a customer complaint. If the fault memory entry in control unit RAM01: B7F480 - Booster no connection is present and no other cause can be found: (For example loudspeaker noises or background noises originating from the end device ), the control device is: Replace amplifier Top-Hifi-System with the following part number: 65 12 5 A38 AB8 amplifier top hi-fi system


!Important:! The change index must be checked before installing the part number. The new spare part must have the change index AI-02 or higher.

Only with these can it be excluded that the customer complaint will recur.

!Info:! The control unit amplifier Top-Hifi-System 65 12 5 A38 AB8 with AI-02 is expected to be available from December / 2020.

Only applies to vehicles with the production period: from March 1st, 2020 to November 1st, 2020
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      12-31-2020, 07:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjektAutoScott View Post
A lot of what I am reading here is false, and contradicting. Not trying to crash this party, but I think it's important to note that virtually all of the HK systems use the exact same drivers, subs, and tweeters since 2010 per realOEM, save for a handful discrepancies here and there. Sorry OP

The HK amplifier is basically the exact same in every G chassis car, 65129832609. The only outlier seems to be the 65129826944, which can only be found in the 2015-2020 5 series in certain, undefined circumstances.

Speakers DO actually wear in over time, so they are just like "shoes'. They become more responsive with heavy use, and that's a big part of this. Sound is arbitrary, and a lot of your experience with the old one, or the one you own sounding better in your mind is just rosy retrospection. It's fair to say, cabin to cabin, a 3 5 or 7 will sound different due to the interior space. But plenty of other factors come into play, like sunroof open or closed, which leather option you chose, how many people are in the car, background noise level, audio source of course, and many others. Maybe there are slight tweaks in HMI software changes, but even that HU version varies greatly car to car and I can't say BMW has ever changed much there from any of the cars I've experienced at our shop (lots). Again, there are some oddball part numbers here and there, but BMW, Phillips, nor HK went out of their way to design a magical, better, cheap 4" mid-range speaker and tweeter only for X model just because you own it/drove it and you think it sounds better. A different bracket? maybe. These are mass production partsbin-sharing cars after all.

Personally, I enjoy the B&O system the most from the F15/16 cars, with the HK being a close second. And it sure would be a lie if I said those pretty stainless speaker grills, and raising center speaker don't make me feel special, just like any desirable upgrade. BMW knows this well. I Haven't experienced the BW fully yet, but looking forward to it.

If you want better, more exciting (arbitrary) sound there are aftermarket options. You won't get too much bang for your buck nit-picking the three mediocre options BMW offers you. Blast your music, get your speakers worn in real nice, and find an EQ setting that you like.

https://www.klipsch.com/blog/how-and...r-new-speakers
We can shake hands and agree to disagree.
Heard facelift HK today in the 5 and it was 25% warmer than pre facelift.
X5 is also good.
Thank F for that.
As for speakers wearing in. Makes sense in theory but as a “producer and dj” for yonks I have never heard that b4 ever. If it were true and it may be then it should be stated. And or it would make sense that progressive use would diminish due to continual expansion of the drivers.
Again Bose don’t sound better over time.
Only a speaker engineer can really answer this.
I have done years as a large club DJ and over time the only things that happen to drivers or cones is that they blow
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      01-01-2021, 02:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormbitch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjektAutoScott View Post
A lot of what I am reading here is false, and contradicting. Not trying to crash this party, but I think it's important to note that virtually all of the HK systems use the exact same drivers, subs, and tweeters since 2010 per realOEM, save for a handful discrepancies here and there. Sorry OP

The HK amplifier is basically the exact same in every G chassis car, 65129832609. The only outlier seems to be the 65129826944, which can only be found in the 2015-2020 5 series in certain, undefined circumstances.

Speakers DO actually wear in over time, so they are just like "shoes'. They become more responsive with heavy use, and that's a big part of this. Sound is arbitrary, and a lot of your experience with the old one, or the one you own sounding better in your mind is just rosy retrospection. It's fair to say, cabin to cabin, a 3 5 or 7 will sound different due to the interior space. But plenty of other factors come into play, like sunroof open or closed, which leather option you chose, how many people are in the car, background noise level, audio source of course, and many others. Maybe there are slight tweaks in HMI software changes, but even that HU version varies greatly car to car and I can't say BMW has ever changed much there from any of the cars I've experienced at our shop (lots). Again, there are some oddball part numbers here and there, but BMW, Phillips, nor HK went out of their way to design a magical, better, cheap 4" mid-range speaker and tweeter only for X model just because you own it/drove it and you think it sounds better. A different bracket? maybe. These are mass production partsbin-sharing cars after all.

Personally, I enjoy the B&O system the most from the F15/16 cars, with the HK being a close second. And it sure would be a lie if I said those pretty stainless speaker grills, and raising center speaker don't make me feel special, just like any desirable upgrade. BMW knows this well. I Haven't experienced the BW fully yet, but looking forward to it.

If you want better, more exciting (arbitrary) sound there are aftermarket options. You won't get too much bang for your buck nit-picking the three mediocre options BMW offers you. Blast your music, get your speakers worn in real nice, and find an EQ setting that you like.

https://www.klipsch.com/blog/how-and...r-new-speakers
We can shake hands and agree to disagree.
Heard facelift HK today in the 5 and it was 25% warmer than pre facelift.
X5 is also good.
Thank F for that.
As for speakers wearing in. Makes sense in theory but as a “producer and dj” for yonks I have never heard that b4 ever. If it were true and it may be then it should be stated. And or it would make sense that progressive use would diminish due to continual expansion of the drivers.
Again Bose don’t sound better over time.
Only a speaker engineer can really answer this.
I have done years as a large club DJ and over time the only things that happen to drivers or cones is that they blow
High end speakers absolutely have a break in period. Take my studio monitor Adam S3-H's for example. They have a very specific 8-hour break in period where you need to pump white noise through them while they face each other.

Car speakers are the same. As the surrounds get flexed they will eventually settle into their natural position which no doubt will affect the sound quality.
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      01-02-2021, 06:44 PM   #14
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Hmm well studio reference speakers perhaps!
Consumer ones really???? Come on.
I have kef 5.1s 3 bose systems at home and our monitors at work hmm.
Granted headphones ie DT 100s do sound bad when they are new but thats also
Because your ears are further away in the new cups.
I have heard this alot before but it makes no sense.
Burmester in MB new cars sound immediately nice.
Harmon in the new Go5 facelift immediately nice.
First gen g05 speakers and new facelift g11 7 - just awful.
So something is up!
Otherwise why did the new test models I had in
5 - 8 - 7 and a friends 5 sound immediately rubbish but on test running
My 740d and all others in showrooms 2015-2017 all sounded fine.
My vote is they changed amp - under seat subs. Base was the issue.
Either way its fixed now!!!
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      01-20-2021, 09:01 AM   #15
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Ok keyboard warriors.... here's my insight, hands on...

2020 M850i - HK, speakers....? Fucking trash.

Literally the speaker I pulled out of a 2009 HiFi (non Hk) 328i is better quality.

I'll post a photo of comparison momentarily
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