BMW 740i vs Mercedes S450

[nye2018sd]

We own both, a 2018 740i with M-Package and a 2020 S450. I wanted to get your opinions on this but before we start, I would like to say that I am a die hard BMW fan and not a Mercedes guy at all. Having said that, here are my impressions:

1. The 7 series DASH and Center Counsel feels outdated, minimalist, and very similar to other BMW's when compared to the S450. I drove both cars back to back at night and the S450 dash and center counsel feels way more interesting, luxurious (the huge screen) and screams look at me if you know what i mean! By comparison, the BMW's dash and center counsel feels dull in comparison.

2. The 7 series seats, and this is one is a surprise. I have had every single occupant/driver who spend time with the car complain about the Front Seats. they almost have no padding, you feel your butt and thighs get sore after even short trips. I have never had this in any BMW but I think the 7 series seats are horrendous, they are not made for long trips or for luxury and comfort, they seem to be more on the sport side and this is not acceptable for a flag ship. The LCI 7 series has exactly the same seats and the same problem. See the difference in cushion padding thickness in the pics below. I think the FRONT seats of the S450 are in a league of their own, almost like you are sitting on couch rather than a seat. Big mistake on BMW's side. The seats are simply not comfortable. (and yes, I have tried a gazillion times to adjust the seats but they are simply not comfortable or appropriate in my opinion for a Flagship Sedan). Sit in both and you will see the difference.

3. The ride. Although this is somewhat expected, the ride of the S450 in terms of comfort and absorbing bumps and surface harshness is better than the 7 series. The Benz has this extra insulation from road harshness that no other car maker is apparently able to simulate.

Don't get me wrong, the luxury ride on the 7 series is phenomenal, but when you compare it with the S class, the S has an edge and I would say a clear edge in this regard.

4. The exterior of the PRE-LCI on the 7 series is uninspiring, looks like a big 5 series and almost everyone who looked at both cars side by side, chose the Benz for the exterior look. From some angles, the car looks hideous. BMW needs a new inspiring and aggressive design team. The PRE-LCI 7 Series in black look horrible in my opinion.

Also, I don't really see the need for the so called "M-Package" on a flagship luxury sedan! It really doesn't look all that good and is more appropriate of a sports car like the M series, Coupes, etc. but not on a LUXURY Saloon.

5. DAKOTA LEATHER on a Flagship 7 Series as standard should be considered a crime in 2020.

6. The dash. Even though this might seem like nit picking, on all BMW including the 7 series flagship, BMW chooses a black Nappa covered leather dash REGARDLESS of your interior color of choice and i find that to be annoying. They really should have the dash covered in the same color as that of the interior but BMW for some reason seems obsessed with having a BLACK Nappa leather dash for ALL its models regardless of interior color choice by customer. Also, the same goes for the steering wheel, only Black.

7. The 2020 LCI 7 series exterior is miles a head of the PRE-LCI version. This should have been done from the start in 2016. The interior needs a new look, revision and differentiation from the other models in the line up.

8. The 7 handling is way better than the S class.

9. The Infotainment system (iDrive) in the 7 is miles ahead of the S class. Technology in the 7 series is also way ahead of the S class, at least in terms of user interface and interaction.

10. The rear seats, space, ambiance, and ambient lights in the 7 series (when equipped with LED Panoramic Sky Lounge) in the REAR look sand feels much better than in the S class. I also find it to be more spacious and modern in the back of the 7.

Having said the above, I can understand why the S outsells the 7 2:1 ratio. BMW needs to work hard on the above and the next 7 needs to make a big statement and differentiate itself from the rest of the lineup.

What are your thoughts?

[Epiplatys]

Strongly agree on the #6, but having hard time to relate to the points 1,2,3,4, 7. Would also agree that M package is not looking good at all, but to my surprise people keep ordering it.

[AlteBMW]

BMW gets my vote for 2 reasons, both of which are important. (1) Handling; and (2) Electronics. I have not been in a recent S class but I have no issues with the seats (I have 750). My wife has a 2020 MB E wagon, and if the electronics in the S are comparable, they are ergonomically awful compared to iDrive in my 2020 750. No wireless carplay. Finicky touchpads all over the place (2 on steering wheel, 1 in center console), with endless menus and submenus. Lots of buttons but not the ones you need everyday. Example: seat massage (important to me with bad back) is only accessible via the menus on MB; then the massage turns off after 15 minutes and to get it back you need to get back to the menus. No presets for radio stations or other except by setting them up in the menu system. I was surprised at this because MB is very safety conscious. Navigation screen is okay but BMW more intuitive. I have ZERO regrets that I chose 750 -- and zero regrets also about the E wagon. My wife did not want an SUV. Would have bought a 5 series wagon in a flash if they would only import them to the US. Will live with the bad electronics; it is otherwise a good car. The S and the 7 are IMHO comparable and matters of taste.

[LSM]

Mercedes is setting a new standard in interiors with the ground up redesign S that's forthcoming

Even the LCI 7 with its two screens is still not as nice as the Design that's been around for MB for 4-5 years

I don't find either 7 or S "sporty" so the question becomes luxury and the S is and has been king for decades

[RaptorStrike]

Originally Posted by nye2018sd

2. The 7 series seats, and this is one is a surprise. I have had every single occupant/driver who spend time with the car complain about the Front Seats. they almost have no padding, you feel your butt and thighs get sore after even short trips. I have never had this in any BMW but I think the 7 series seats are horrendous, they are not made for long trips or for luxury and comfort, they seem to be more on the sport side and this is not acceptable for a flag ship. The LCI 7 series has exactly the same seats and the same problem. See the difference in cushion padding thickness in the pics below. I think the FRONT seats of the S450 are in a league of their own, almost like you are sitting on couch rather than a seat. Big mistake on BMW's side. The seats are simply not comfortable. (and yes, I have tried a gazillion times to adjust the seats but they are simply not comfortable or appropriate in my opinion for a Flagship Sedan). Sit in both and you will see the difference.

Agree on the seats. I tested the A8, 7 and S before I went with the 7. The seats in the S were very nice but I felt they weren't as supportive as the 7.

I am having the drivers seat base replaced next week as I was having a similar issue but it also felt like something was digging in my right thigh. Took the car in last week and they agreed there was something wrong with it.

Had to wait as my car has ventilated massaging seats and they didn't have any of the seat bases in the UK. It's coming from Germany and is due to arrive today. So car goes in on Tuesday for them to replace it. Hoping it solves some, if not all, of the issue.

[mjr24]

Yeah, I mean it's no secret the S is the head of the class when it coupes to luxury large sedans.....meaning S versus 7 versus A8 vs Lexus LS.

I do love the look of the LCI 7-series. It's definitely night and day versus the pre-LCI. I actually considered buying one this winter before I went with the F90 M5. I actually ended up having a LCI 750i loaner last week when my M5 was being serviced and it was nice.....but not really that much different than my M5. It's just a bigger 5 series. I'm glad I went with the M5. That being said, in 10 years when I don't care about speed or handling anymore, you can't go wrong with a 7.

[NewQ]

I don't agree as strongly on comfort or design, at least not to that extent.

Design is always a matter of opinion. If you were to rank the current (relevant) flagships from most traditional to most modern in interior design, I think it would go like this:

S-Class
7-Series
LS500
A8
Model S (what the heck)

The 7 was a good balance for me.

If anything, it seems like a derivation of the Rolls-Royce interior design; it's upright, it's formal, it's stately. It's less dramatic sure, and some days I do prefer the S-Class interior, but not all the time and not by miles.

Plus the interior design is also sensitive to color and trim. The Mercedes in its lowest trim looks clearly better than the BMW, but up both all the way and it's less clear cut. I have a Merino leather burgundy/black interior and I would put it up against your S-Class example any day.



The comfort aspect is noticeable, but not night and day, to the point that I think tires would be as much of a major contributing factor when comparing the two. And the 7 still holds a greater edge on handling vs. the S than the S holds against the 7 on comfort; on balance the 7 is overall superior on the whole.

The Audi A8 is superior to both of them on comfort though, in my experience.

Agree on LCI. The pre-facelift car looked demure and a full class below, especially the 740s with the circular non-upgraded headlights.

[Moopai]

I strongly disagree with both of you on the M package comment. I know this is a personal preference but the M package what makes this car look good, sporty and aggressive... Personally I think without the M package the car looks pretty dull...

Originally Posted by Epiplatys

Strongly agree on the #6, but having hard time to relate to the points 1,2,3,4, 7. Would also agree that M package is not looking good at all, but to my surprise people keep ordering it.

[Texas42]

We had a 2016 S that was a very nice car, but last year we looked at both the new S and new 7 series. We decided on the 7 series for my wife and bought a 2020 740i for the following reasons.
We thought the seats and seating positions were about equal, maybe for us the 7 series a little more comfortable.
The ride was about equal with the 7 series maybe not quite as plush, but the handling of the 7 series far superior.
We also gave the 7 series high marks on their Info/Entertainment system. Much easier and more intuitive than the S.
One thing we really disliked about the MB was the brake dust on the wheels. My better half keeps her cars spotless, but after 20 or 30 miles you could see brake dust on the wheels of the S. This drove her crazy. None of this with the BMW.
Overall very happy with our purchase and do not regret not getting another S.

[bigmac f02+g12]

Originally Posted by Moopai

I strongly disagree with both of you on the M package comment. I know this is a personal preference but the M package what makes this car look good, sporty and aggressive... Personally I think without the M package the car looks pretty dull...

Originally Posted by Moopai

I strongly disagree with both of you on the M package comment. I know this is a personal preference but the M package what makes this car look good, sporty and aggressive... Personally I think without the M package the car looks pretty dull...

Must say I agree if it wasn't for the M sport option I know for a fact that I would not be driving a 7 series now nor would I have two of them at this very moment !!! They Just look super sexy and well I know for mine atleast they are head turners no matter where I go lol 😂 can't pull out either car to go anywhere without someone stopping me at a red light or gas station with out getting a commenting on how sexy and sharp and sporty they look just last Saturday was in for service and this guy there was looking at the regular 7 he noticed mine and just ran away from the salesman to look at my car salesman had to tell the poor guy that it belonged to a customer he was trying to open my door I unlocked the he looked inside now him and the salesman when they opened my back door both in unison said woooow he immediately asked if he could sit in my back seat I told he could look but can't get inside ( I said to myself can't I've been Covid free this long plan on staying that way so

[Pelo Cat]

Originally Posted by nye2018sd

<snip>
2. The 7 series seats, and this is one is a surprise. I have had every single occupant/driver who spend time with the car complain about the Front Seats. they almost have no padding, you feel your butt and thighs get sore after even short trips. I have never had this in any BMW but I think the 7 series seats are horrendous, they are not made for long trips or for luxury and comfort, they seem to be more on the sport side and this is not acceptable for a flag ship. The LCI 7 series has exactly the same seats and the same problem. See the difference in cushion padding thickness in the pics below. I think the FRONT seats of the S450 are in a league of their own, almost like you are sitting on couch rather than a seat. Big mistake on BMW's side. The seats are simply not comfortable. (and yes, I have tried a gazillion times to adjust the seats but they are simply not comfortable or appropriate in my opinion for a Flagship Sedan). Sit in both and you will see the difference.
<snip>
What are your thoughts?

Hi nye2018sd, interesting points, I can certainly agree with many of your points but thought I'd ask about this one...do you have the executive lounge package in the back (with the full middle centre console so no third seat AND do you have the feature that allows you to have a foot rest electrically come down from the seat in front? I ask because if you do have the electric foot rest option, the front seat won't be quite the same as other 7's without that feature. The reason is that they have removed the heating, massage and possibly some padding to leave room for the electric footrest...so besides the front passenger not having any heating/cooling/massage function...the seat may appear to be thinner as well for that reason? (at least when considered compared to the S class picture you show.)

Just a thought, it may not be the reason you find the seat uncomfortable and certainly wouldn't explain the driver seat being this way as it is unaffected but may explain the front passenger seat differences.

I used to be a fan of the S class personally, especially for looks during the period that BMW was in the E65 7 (E38 is still the best looking personally) but having driven an S in 2017 (things change of course) I only want to be in an S when I'm in the back...as you say, the 7 is far more enjoyable / sporty to drive but as many will say, the S is nice in the back. (so is the 7 though).

I can't get on with the S class menu systems and interface but that is maybe due to having had BMW's for many years and the only Mercs being the odd rental...

In any case, safe travels and enjoy both cars, great to have the choice.

[nye2018sd]

Originally Posted by Pelo Cat

Hi nye2018sd, interesting points, I can certainly agree with many of your points but thought I'd ask about this one...do you have the executive lounge package in the back (with the full middle centre console so no third seat AND do you have the feature that allows you to have a foot rest electrically come down from the seat in front? I ask because if you do have the electric foot rest option, the front seat won't be quite the same as other 7's without that feature. The reason is that they have removed the heating, massage and possibly some padding to leave room for the electric footrest...so besides the front passenger not having any heating/cooling/massage function...the seat may appear to be thinner as well for that reason? (at least when considered compared to the S class picture you show.)

Just a thought, it may not be the reason you find the seat uncomfortable and certainly wouldn't explain the driver seat being this way as it is unaffected but may explain the front passenger seat differences.

I used to be a fan of the S class personally, especially for looks during the period that BMW was in the E65 7 (E38 is still the best looking personally) but having driven an S in 2017 (things change of course) I only want to be in an S when I'm in the back...as you say, the 7 is far more enjoyable / sporty to drive but as many will say, the S is nice in the back. (so is the 7 though).

I can't get on with the S class menu systems and interface but that is maybe due to having had BMW's for many years and the only Mercs being the odd rental...

In any case, safe travels and enjoy both cars, great to have the choice.

Hello,

No, I dont have the executive lounge package and so this cannot be the issue with the front seats. Just by looking at them Its obvious they don't have much padding! What is BMW thinking!! The new S class is going to be a head turner in just a few months form release and I do hope that BMW get their act together for the next 7 Series:

1. Completely revise the interior. Luxury thick PADDING for the front seats. revise the dash and center counsel by using something from their concept designs, integrate larger screen or screens.

2. Get rid of the silly M Package. This package has no business for a LUXURY FLAGSHIP SALOON. For M Cars, Coupes, that's fine but not on the 7. This is NOT a sports car.

3. Continue to improve the exterior of the car building on the 7 LCI. The new 7 needs to make a STATEMENT in LUXURY, OPULENCE, AND COMFORT. They need to get away from M packing, M steering Wheel, M this and M that. Again, this is NOT a sports car.

[RaptorStrike]

Originally Posted by nye2018sd

Hello,

No, I dont have the executive lounge package and so this cannot be the issue with the front seats. Just by looking at them Its obvious they don't have much padding! What is BMW thinking!! The new S class is going to be a head turner in just a few months form release and I do hope that BMW get their act together for the next 7 Series:

1. Completely revise the interior. Luxury thick PADDING for the front seats. revise the dash and center counsel by using something from their concept designs, integrate larger screen or screens.

2. Get rid of the silly M Package. This package has no business for a LUXURY FLAGSHIP SALOON. For M Cars, Coupes, that's fine but not on the 7. This is NOT a sports car.

3. Continue to improve the exterior of the car building on the 7 LCI. The new 7 needs to make a STATEMENT in LUXURY, OPULENCE, AND COMFORT. They need to get away from M packing, M steering Wheel, M this and M that. Again, this is NOT a sports car.

If your car still has a warranty then get your local dealer to check the seats over. I had mine checked over and it's currently having a new seat base. My car has only done 16k miles and is 2yrs old.

Had to wait for the base to come from Germany. But the fact it was in stock in Germany and wasn't a build to order part suggests BMW may know there is an issue with the seats.

On the contrary my passenger seat is spot on.

[ewoody]

I would not have bought the 7 without M-Package.

S-Class has the AMG Option.

I'm driving both of them. A 2019 745Le xDrive and a 2015 S500L 4matic.

It can be luxurious and also look sporty. I'm sure there is high demand.

I've no issue with the 7. I prefer driving and be driven with the 7 and actually it is by far the better car than the S-Class.

We will see if the new S-Class does better... actually I dont't like the front screens in the new one.

But this reflects only my opinion...

[RaptorStrike]

Having just got mine back after the drivers seat base was replaced in mine the seat is a lot more comfortable.

[NewQ]

How strange, I would never by a 7 *with* the M-Sport package.

I think it looks garish, tacked-on, mismatched, and borderline aftermarket, in my opinion.

In the exact right color combinations, with the exact right wheels, and maybe with that bronze-look trim, it can be okay; but it's way easier to get wrong than right.

The "luxury" spec for the 7 looks excellent in my opinion. Bold upright and imposing design, and I love the lower bumper area.

[Martin2C]

The M badges do look awful and they are very cheap, thin plastic. I had them deleted on my last two BMWs. The M Sport bumpers do suit the 7 though and I don’t like the chrome trim on either spec.

[stein_325i]

The W222 S-Class is a tough to beat luxury car in my opinion. The fact that it came out in 2013 and is still extremely competitive with offerings from Audi and BMW who premiered later shows the success of this generation. If you prefer a sportier car I've never understood the argument of getting a 207 inch long car for that, but that's just my opinion, this class of car is all about luxury, style, tech, perception and being the best.

I've always preferred the W222 to the G12, the S-Class just has an incredibly special feeling to driving and sitting in it, especially looking at the hood ornament at the end of the hood. The 7-series has a nice interior, but I think BMW played it too safe with this generation and made it look way too similar to the 3 and 5-series, especially inside. Hopefully with the next generation 7er and i7 BMW will put the 7-series back in the spotlight, and perhaps give it some more bespoke parts/designs to help it stand out.

[Shantosh Seewooruttun]

This 7 series with M-Sport Package vs no M-Package discussion is pointless as it is subjective. Some people, irrespective of age will find the non-M-Package better looking in their eyes while for another group it might be vice versa, but the usual trend here on this forum since long has been the users opting for the M-Package no matter what the car Series is. The Alpina Package (exclusive to Alpina) also looks good despite the chrome elements.

There are also other reasons why some people prefer the M-Package, for example to have the option to replace all the chrome with the darker option, even the grill and the side bars for the case of the G11 and G12.

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by Shantosh Seewooruttun

This 7 series with M-Sport Package vs no M-Package discussion is pointless as it is subjective. Some people, irrespective of age will find the non-M-Package better looking in their eyes while for another group it might be vice versa, but the usual trend here on this forum since long has been the users opting for the M-Package no matter what the car Series is. The Alpina Package (exclusive to Alpina) also looks good despite the chrome elements.

There are also other reasons why some people prefer the M-Package, for example to have the option to replace all the chrome with the darker option, even the grill and the side bars for the case of the G11 and G12.

The exhaust alone is worth the price of the M-Sport package for me. Add to that the thicker steering wheel, dark accents, and better wheel choices and it's a no-brainer. Like most topics on this thread it's completely subjective though. To each their own!

[Shantosh Seewooruttun]

Originally Posted by ALPINA_DREAMS

The exhaust alone is worth the price of the M-Sport package for me. Add to that the thicker steering wheel, dark accents, and better wheel choices and it's a no-brainer. Like most topics on this thread it's completely subjective though. To each their own!

Same here. I prefer the M-Sport not only for the more aggressive front but for the wheels, the dark elements and also for the other extras. One of the only things that I would not want from the M-Sport package are the M-Sport door sills on certain cars (not all, but likely not on the 7 Series and maybe the 6 Series Grand Coupe), I would prefer it be BMW or BMW individual, both with the lighting of course. Also, I do not like those Ms here and there not because they plastic like someone said above but because they everywhere M as if it is a must to put this as a statement everywhere to show off or to remind you that you have an M-Sport Package car despite that you are the owner yourself . It almost looks ridiculous. I prefer the car debadged and even will remove the M760Li badge if it was one. I like the car cleaner.

[NewQ]

Of course it's all subjective.

My opinion is that the overall design of the 7-Series works at cross-purposes to the look of the M-Sport package.

The interior is also subjective, but I believe the 7-Series is higher quality in that respect. The design is really a tough call, but I can appreciate the poor-man's Rolls-Royce aesthetic of the 7.