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      05-25-2022, 10:05 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
That is a fallacy of false analogy. First of all, 5 years ago all cars had huge discounts, some as high as 20%. In the current market, BMW is actually 1 of very few giving a discount. Most cars currently have a huge mark-up. Even KIA's a going for $5-$10k over MSRP. If you think differently you haven't been shopping.
BMW sales is great globally. There were no great discounts in my country.

BMW also overtook Mercedes during the Bangle years. Had they gone with "normal" designs, it would have doubled up on Mercedes sales right? Sure
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      05-25-2022, 10:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
Ultimately these are cars I don't own and never wish to own. It doesn't excite me to see my favorite brands design language go to complete comedy but it is what it is. The difference between this new design language and bengals back in the day was that this is just redesign for the sake of doing it. There's no forward flow that reflects the past cars.

There is no longer range cohesiveness. The 3 doesn't look like the 5 like the 7 etc. which cheapens the brand a lot. The F30/F10/F01 for example is exactly what I'm talking about. They all look like bmws. And the higher range cars look like more premium versions of the other.

I say a lot on these forums and owners of cars like the G8X get annoyed at me because it rubs them the wrong way that I don't like a car they spent 80k on but I can assure you as someone in many different car communities online and in the real world, most people do not take to these new designs well at all. The current gen 4 and M3/4 which have been around for a while now are still negatively looked at. The best comments I see are "it looks ok in black." Well You should have to get a car in black with black accents to just hide the design language entirely to make it "ok" to look at. The non m sport versions of these cars are especially hideous and there's subtle things about the new 7 that are just pointless in design. It's not even the grille either because for the record, I didn't mind the facelifted G11 grille. Because the rest of the car actually looked like the car it replaced.

TL;DR- new bmws are insanely impressive on the road as drivers cars but horrible to look at.

End rant
I'm not a person who has a long history with BMW cars of the past, so my opinion may be different than most in the forum.

But, this is exactly why I purchased my M440i. I'm really glad it looks like nothing else in the BMW lineup. IMHO, any brand is watered down or "cheapened" when the models look like stretched variants if one another. It just screams, no creativity allowed.

When I stop and think about it, the only time I've ever heard anything negative about the design of the 440 was on this forum or from some "journalist" who simply repeats what the last one said. Everyone I encounter in person, wants a photo, a bit of conversation and want to know how much it costs.

I can't say that I would change a thing about my M440…..well, maybe add a manual option, but that doesn't make a break a deal for me. If that changes, I'll sell it and grab a 2023 Supra now that they've finally made it an option.
Hey man that's great! If you enjoy it that's all that matters. I've just been a bmw fan for many years perhaps I'm stuck in my ways. There's just design ques that they're abandoning that I'm not a fan of. I think the larger grille can be done correctly I just think either the 4 wasn't it or maybe it was just too large a jump from the old f32 to the new one. Either way it's a rocket and the B58 is the best they've ever done.
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      05-25-2022, 12:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by E66er View Post
BMW sales is great globally. There were no great discounts in my country.

BMW also overtook Mercedes during the Bangle years. Had they gone with "normal" designs, it would have doubled up on Mercedes sales right? Sure
Once again, all you can do is create a straw man. Just who is advocating "normal designs" and what exactly is a "normal design"?

Did you know Chris Bangle designed the E92, one of the best looking BMW's ever?? And some other designs that helped BMW break sales records. The ugly Bangled Butt, was actually a Adriann VonHoydaank (sp?) design.

And when did I say this 7 series was fugly?? I agree exactly with what Frank said. Unfortunately, that's becoming the common theme with new BMW's, it COULD'VE been beautiful, if not for a few unconscionable mishaps.

Frank nailed it when he said the new 7 has a great line, and it's awesome how the rear tail lights line up, but why give it spider eyes?

The G8X has great lines and a great body shape, COULD'VE been incredible, but they had to put a pig snout on it.

The G42 has a great shape, but they had to put real odd shape tail lights on it that don't line up with the vehicle horizontal line. They also had to put ugly headlights and triangles on the front and black rocker panels. Just a few things from it being beautiful.

Despite that, I still bought one because nothing else drives like it and that's why BMW is selling every car they can make. The Audi S3, S4 look much better, all the lines and angles line up and flow, but no way in hell I buy a raspy 4 cylinder for more $. Even so, try getting an Audi at MSRP, and you'll wait a year, not like the 6 mos for a BMW.

Even Cadillac is making better looking cars, has some great new designs. Try getting a CT5-V at all!! But they certainly aren't going to drive like a BMW.

Just give me a car that doesn't have some weird shape that makes me go or some cheap tacked on ipad from dollar family as a dash.
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      05-25-2022, 01:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
Once again, all you can do is create a straw man. Just who is advocating "normal designs" and what exactly is a "normal design"?

Did you know Chris Bangle designed the E92, one of the best looking BMW's ever?? And some other designs that helped BMW break sales records. The ugly Bangled Butt, was actually a Adriann VonHoydaank (sp?) design.

And when did I say this 7 series was fugly?? I agree exactly with what Frank said. Unfortunately, that's becoming the common theme with new BMW's, it COULD'VE been beautiful, if not for a few unconscionable mishaps.

Frank nailed it when he said the new 7 has a great line, and it's awesome how the rear tail lights line up, but why give it spider eyes?

The G8X has great lines and a great body shape, COULD'VE been incredible, but they had to put a pig snout on it.

The G42 has a great shape, but they had to put real odd shape tail lights on it that don't line up with the vehicle horizontal line. They also had to put ugly headlights and triangles on the front and black rocker panels. Just a few things from it being beautiful.

Just give me a car that doesn't have some weird shape that makes me go or some cheap tacked on ipad from dollar family as a dash.
The overall E65 is Hooydonk's work, but the butt is based on the Z9 concept, a pure Bangle design. And it is the best selling 7 of all time.

The E92 was penned by Marc Michael Markefka. Where do you get your facts lol

Anything you say is weird, ugly, spider eyes, beautiful is YOUR opinion. Sales numbers will tell us what the overall opinion on whatever model is.
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      05-25-2022, 02:00 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by E66er View Post
The overall E65 is Hooydonk's work, but the butt is based on the Z9 concept, a pure Bangle design. And it is the best selling 7 of all time.

The E92 was penned by Marc Michael Markefka. Where do you get your facts lol

Anything you say is weird, ugly, spider eyes, beautiful is YOUR opinion. Sales numbers will tell us what the overall opinion on whatever model is.
Exactly! On the other thread that has a pole on the new ipad, 80% of posters say it sucks, but it's just my opinion.
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      05-25-2022, 02:15 PM   #28
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Exactly! On the other thread that has a pole on the new ipad, 80% of posters say it sucks, but it's just my opinion.
Some random internet poll <> sales numbers
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      05-25-2022, 04:52 PM   #29
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Really ugly car
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      05-25-2022, 05:31 PM   #30
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Forget about the looks, will the car still have a major coolant leak at 20k miles? Or a major oil leak at 30k miles?
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      05-25-2022, 07:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by E66er View Post
Some random internet poll <> sales numbers
Yet, a poll here on bimmerpost is a random internet poll?? I'm sure you're fellow posters appreciate your comments. Sales numbers don't mean a damn thing if the variables for purchase aren't defined. Some people don't even consider what a car looks like when they buy.

When the population is growing exponentially and people have more disposable income than ever if a luxury car company making great driving cars isn't setting sales records then they have some very very serious issues.

Keep on genius!!
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      05-25-2022, 08:28 PM   #32
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Guess why BMW didn't hire that guy.

I think new BMWs are awesome 👏
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      05-25-2022, 08:56 PM   #33
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Lol... they did hire that guy. He designed the original e53 X5, and the first “new generation” Mini. Both were important models and major successes for BMW.

He then moved on to work for Ferrari, Maserati, Fiat and McLaren, so a pretty outstanding track record.

I like the section of the video where he removed the daytime running lights and shortened the height of the grille - had BMW been bold enough to go with that idea (with a bit of further refinement) the car would have looked more aggressive & unique, with a nod to the e31.

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      05-26-2022, 10:15 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
Yet, a poll here on bimmerpost is a random internet poll?? I'm sure you're fellow posters appreciate your comments. Sales numbers don't mean a damn thing if the variables for purchase aren't defined. Some people don't even consider what a car looks like when they buy.

When the population is growing exponentially and people have more disposable income than ever if a luxury car company making great driving cars isn't setting sales records then they have some very very serious issues.

Keep on genius!!
"your" vs "you're" - learn it "genius" lol.

It is a random internet poll. Who are these people who don't consider a car's looks when they buy...people who buy what you don't like the looks of? Is your source the same as the one that said Chris Bangle designed the E92?
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      05-30-2022, 08:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
Yet, a poll here on bimmerpost is a random internet poll?? I'm sure you're fellow posters appreciate your comments. Sales numbers don't mean a damn thing if the variables for purchase aren't defined. Some people don't even consider what a car looks like when they buy.

When the population is growing exponentially and people have more disposable income than ever if a luxury car company making great driving cars isn't setting sales records then they have some very very serious issues.

Keep on genius!!
So many things to dialog with you on but you are wrong to state the world population is growing exponentially. It is definitely not and backed up by data. To add insult to your argument's injury, growth is actually slowest in BMW's biggest markets - China and the US.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/doug-boucher...h-exponential/
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      06-01-2022, 01:00 AM   #36
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Coming from a fan and owner of several bimmers.
I can not nor never will warm up to this FUGLY creation. It does not even resemble BMW in any way. Hideous.
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      06-02-2022, 04:27 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post
Coming from a fan and owner of several bimmers.
I can not nor never will warm up to this FUGLY creation. It does not even resemble BMW in any way. Hideous.
Darn, they probably lost you to Mercedes or Lexus to get an S-Class or LS.

What's that? It's highly unlikely you were ever in the market for a $130K+ limousine? Oh, okay.
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      06-02-2022, 04:33 PM   #38
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Darn, they probably lost you to Mercedes or Lexus to get an S-Class or LS.

What's that? It's highly unlikely you were ever in the market for a $130K+ limousine? Oh, okay.
TX owns and has had a few different 7-Series models.
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      06-03-2022, 02:58 AM   #39
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Darn, they probably lost you to Mercedes or Lexus to get an S-Class or LS.

What's that? It's highly unlikely you were ever in the market for a $130K+ limousine? Oh, okay.
You're funny. Do you do stand up professionally?

If I was so inclined, I can go place an order for one tomorrow or any car in its price range, in full with a check. Just because I thoroughly dislike it, doesn't mean I can't afford it junior.
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      06-23-2022, 01:02 PM   #40
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I think it is a waste to get into arguments or heated discussions because of the appearance of a car. If someone likes it and can afford it, he buys it; if he does not, he does not buy it. Not buying is the 'biggest' message people who do not like a product can send to the company concerned. You people who do not like it need to move on to some other brands - there are many options available.

I was a fan of BMW myself but not so much nowadays. BMWs were not the best looking cars except certain exceptions like the E39 and the F06, but they were not the worst looking either nor were they odd or displeasing, but the certain recent ones are like they lost the brands identity and the proportions of certain elements do not seem ok. I do not like the direction they took with their exterior designs, and the G70 is even worst. The exterior may not be ugly as such but is surely odd for a car. The front design suits more the SUV. Reliability and durability are also concerns. Bangle designs were a big change too but at least they look more like BMW unlike this G70 which looks like an Alien or something from a movie. There were things that people loved with BMW even with the appearance, but some or even many of these are no longer present in the new cars.

I seen comments like the car needs be in black to look good, but then this itself shows you that the shapes and lines on the car are not something pleasing to the eye, and they have to be made less prominent for the appearance of of car to be pleasing

The car might suit Asian markets in terms of appearance, but does it match Asian cars in terms of reliability, durability and cost of running? Likely not. Given they copying Asians or trying to make cars like Asians but with more power and luxury, they should be following them on reliability and durability too.

Appearance is something very important when buying a car in this price range. People do not buy such cars just for using it as a vehicle - a means of transport - and do not care about how it looks, else they buy the most reliable and economic cars available that provide enough comfort.

In my country, I have not seen the new 4 series on the road (the one with the big grill). So it seems people are not ordering such odd-looking cars here. Even the G11 facelift there are very few - I seen only 2 or 3, but I seen many other expensive cars from other brands. There are also a lot of G30.

I think BMW took a gamble on the exterior of G70 and they likely have a back-up plan in case it is a failure; that will likely show at the face-lift. As for the sales, if it will be low, maybe they will blame it on COVID instead of admitting their mistakes as has been the case in other sectors in several areas concerning sales, growth and so on.

Again I say: like, buy; not like, do not buy.

Last edited by Shantosh Seewooruttun; 06-23-2022 at 01:52 PM..
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