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      01-17-2020, 10:17 AM   #397
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I'm wondering if this is an attempt for "///M" to branch further away from BMW and become it's own manufacturer? Sort of like what Ram did with Dodge and what I'm assuming Mustang is starting to do with Ford.

🤔
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      01-17-2020, 10:19 AM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgear67 View Post
The reason people are bitching about M Performance cars is because M owners got to pay an extra $30K to get 0.5 sec faster car on a 0-60...

And we get an xDrive as a bonus so we are using them year round...lol

Yes, this is a Dakar Yellow 435i M Performance (now an M435i) Dinan stage 2, manual gear box, xDrive and very proud of it.
Please. I drive my RWD 335is in Quebec winters using it year round and I'm doing fine. Xdrive is so overrated. If I had a M4 it would be the same thing, I'd be driving it in winter.
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      01-17-2020, 10:21 AM   #399
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the people making these decisions are soy-latte people who drive i3s around all day FYI.

Also why does no one mention cooling? its a significant aspect of a turbo car.
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      01-17-2020, 10:29 AM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPichardo View Post
Going forward, today's M Performance models will be known as M cars slotting just below the single digit M models.

So for the 3 Series derived models, for example, all the below are now simply "M cars":

M340i
M3
M3 Competition
M3 CS
Nice move, now they have a reason to raise the price of M340
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      01-17-2020, 10:33 AM   #401
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Expect to see lots of M340 and M550 joining the ///M car meets.
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      01-17-2020, 10:37 AM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

.
So, you first wrote that an M5 has 17% better performance, then you ask the underlined question?
Also, in the mind of a true enthusiast, the "performance" is much broader term than 0-60 or a 1/4 mile number.
M550 is not an M because it has completely different steering, transmission, drivetrain, suspension, and many other pieces that are optimized to work together well in an M model
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      01-17-2020, 10:38 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Mardio View Post
"There, you are paying for the AMG name even though the car really has zero upgrades over the other models." Really? Zero upgrades? The cheap A 220 makes 181 hp, the A 35 makes 302 hp. Also the A 35 comes with 4 matic and a different suspension and settings. The list goes on regarding the differences. I'm not saying the A 35 is all the special but saying it has "zero upgrades" is completely false.
A Class? Be serious.

I am talking real cars here....I don't even know what an A Class looks like.

300 horsepower on an AMG? My SL55 had almost 500.....FIFTEEN YEARS AGO!

Here is the REAL question....let's see how many people want the M-Performance cars if they start changing residuals for those models to mirror actual M cars (lease mileage overage, too).
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      01-17-2020, 10:47 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

.
So, you first wrote that an M5 has 17% better performance, then you ask the underlined question?
Also, in the mind of a true enthusiast, the "performance" is much broader term than 0-60 or a 1/4 mile number.
M550 is not an M because it has completely different steering, transmission, drivetrain, suspension, and many other pieces that are optimized to work together well in an M model
They work better in an M car, they still work well in an M550.

I said the M5 has 17% Better performance than an M550 - that's not a perceptible difference.
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      01-17-2020, 10:54 AM   #405
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When does the 114i European customer wants to be an REAL M customer? Why not say M114i when the car has an M Sport package? Stupid marketing bla bla

For me a car is a real M when its developed by M in Garching and not in the FIZ in Munich
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      01-17-2020, 10:56 AM   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post
I'm wondering if this is an attempt for "///M" to branch further away from BMW and become it's own manufacturer? Sort of like what Ram did with Dodge and what I'm assuming Mustang is starting to do with Ford.

🤔
Finally some interesting suggestions

M is now also used for the new bmw performance motorbikes, so at this point it is proving us that this use of the M brand is more a German corporate branding exercise rather than a strategic will to transfer high performance technology from racing into exclusive sport models... to move to the M being a M own brand can be, but its already too diluted into standard models as rightly claimed by M owners

What I mean by standard car is a car developed to drive everyday in all conditions, with the aim of security, luxury and confort and it should be powerful as it is a BMW. But that is not what M cars are made for...

The highjacking of the M brand representing the sport division of past legendary racing cars can make sense if this drives further investments and gives BMW even more capability to develop models that can compete with Porsche and Lotus on track, but being more fun, less flashy and polyvalent at a competitive price.

As a last word, BMW should treat more carefully this M brand matters and its community of owners, the bridge to other brands like Porsche, Lotus or even Mustang in the US makes the conversion so easy and its happening. How many M4 owners move to GT3/4 if not a strong BMW M brand can keep them loving and enjoying their M car

M town was a nice concept ... the spirit of it should now be followed by the same people who agreed to it ... at least we know they said yes to the com agency🥳
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      01-17-2020, 10:59 AM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2PDX View Post
I've had 6 Ms over the years.

I drive a fabulous M2 now.

I had an F80 M3.

Had an opportunity to test drive the G20 M340i, and it was a beast. Better in every way than my old F80. Steering, torque, sound, handling, etc.

What does that suggest? That the next M3 will be even more spectacular.

As M technology drifts down to "regular" BMWs, including M "performance" cars, that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
You must have been driving your M3 in traffic jams the whole time.
While M340i is nice car - it doesn’t compare to F80 M3 in any way except putting power down in Xdrive form. M3 is better in every other way. BTW as good as the B58 is the S55 is much more explosive and higher revving.

I have both engines in my disposal with 2018 M3 Comp and 2020 X3 M40i.
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      01-17-2020, 11:04 AM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nublu2u View Post
As Jeremy Clarkson said about the e92 335i.....'all you are saying is that you can't afford an M3'. True then, true today.

BMW continue to cheapen the ///M badge, a race to the bottom.
I miss Jeremy Clarkson. In regard to your assertion though, one argument that comes up a lot is that a well optioned G20 M340i costs too close to a base F80/82. That challenges the point you're trying to make.

If we decide to ignore that inconvenient counter point though, and further apply your logic, we can also conclude that a BMW M* driver simply can't afford a real luxury sports car like a Porsche.
Many of us can afford a Porsche but decided a REAL ///M car is the better fit. I've test driven multiple Porsche cars and always come back to BMW. Just saying.

Now let's get back to the fun.

Here I'll say it to get the party started.

M Performance cars are not REAL ///M cars. They are fake!

:
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      01-17-2020, 11:11 AM   #409
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Also last time I checked a “true” M car besides the M specific engine, trans etc also has M specific styling - hood, mirrors, carbon roof, wider fenders, seats etc. There are so many parts that come together to make an M car. The Mperformance cars are not a full M car.
Signed- X3 M40i owner!
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      01-17-2020, 11:11 AM   #410
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Interesting how in the M Town commercials you never see an M340i or M550i...
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      01-17-2020, 11:16 AM   #411
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They aren't real M's
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      01-17-2020, 11:30 AM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I get that the M5 is a better car, with more road "feel", but the M550 has the Performance of the previous F10 generation. The article says the 550 feels great. I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

I say this often for people who use "because track" as a reason, but Modern M cars are heavy and big. Even that E92, while excellent at the limit and forgiving, was heavy to push around all day. You can feel the weight in the corners. Why are you tracking a car with full back seats and leather etc on a consistent basis?

So, if you have the finances for just one car that you need to use every day and track often, get the M3. I'll be a half second behind you having just as much fun.
Again, you're comparing a car that's 12 YEARS older and 2 GENERATIONS older. Compare the 335i to the e9x m3 and tell me they're anywhere close to the same.

To your point about 17% better performance for 25% price premium... It's called the law of diminishing returns. 17% performance increase is a substantial increase. Let's apply this example to school. A student that always gets 100% likely has to work at least 25% harder than the 83% student to get the 17% grade increase. For most people, being a low B student is acceptable and they settle for that score. Again, no issues with it. But that 83% student better not go around claiming to be a 100% A+ student because they aren't. Its a significant difference.

To your final point, I highly disagree if you actually think a M550 will be just a half second behind a M5 on a track. In a straight line, maybe its close to M-like performance, but it'll never have M like involvement or M fun factor. Try breaking that rear end loose like an M5 with precision control and not find yourself getting thrashed around like a ragdoll pointing the other direction.
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      01-17-2020, 11:34 AM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavo11 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I get that the M5 is a better car, with more road "feel", but the M550 has the Performance of the previous F10 generation. The article says the 550 feels great. I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

I say this often for people who use "because track" as a reason, but Modern M cars are heavy and big. Even that E92, while excellent at the limit and forgiving, was heavy to push around all day. You can feel the weight in the corners. Why are you tracking a car with full back seats and leather etc on a consistent basis?

So, if you have the finances for just one car that you need to use every day and track often, get the M3. I'll be a half second behind you having just as much fun.
Again, you're comparing a car that's 12 YEARS older and 2 GENERATIONS older. Compare the 335i to the e9x m3 and tell me they're anywhere close to the same.

To your point about 17% better performance for 25% price premium... It's called the law of diminishing returns. 17% performance increase is a substantial increase. Let's apply this example to school. A student that always gets 100% likely has to work at least 25% harder than the 83% student to get the 17% grade increase. For most people, being a low B student is acceptable and they settle for that score. Again, no issues with it. But that 83% student better not go around claiming to be a 100% A+ student because they aren't. Its a significant difference.

To your final point, I highly disagree if you actually think a M550 will be just a half second behind a M5 on a track. In a straight line, maybe its close to M-like performance, but it'll never have M like involvement or M fun factor. Try breaking that rear end loose like an M5 with precision control and not find yourself getting thrashed around like a ragdoll pointing the other direction.
Man that's a lot of numbers.

Look. The M5 is the best 5 Series you can buy. It's the fastest, most involved one.

All I'm saying is you might not NEED all that performance. If you don't, an M550 is a nice choice, and still a car you can enjoy every day with performance better than most previous M cars. That doesn't mean it's NOT an M car.
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      01-17-2020, 11:35 AM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skifahrer View Post
When does the 114i European customer wants to be an REAL M customer? Why not say M114i when the car has an M Sport package? Stupid marketing bla bla

For me a car is a real M when its developed by M in Garching and not in the FIZ in Munich
"Look at me in my new M i3 guys. It has M sill plates so it's a real M now!"
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      01-17-2020, 11:38 AM   #415
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Well, a real M car is obviously not:
- a SUV: exit X3M, X5M, etc
- a FWD or a AWD: exit M235i, M340i, M5, etc
- a sport car that sounds like shit : exit M2C, M3, M4, etc
- a boat: exit M6, M8, etc
- a car that looks very much like a normal BMW: exit M240i, etc
So, in conclusion, my M2 LCI was the last real M-car! 😆
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      01-17-2020, 11:53 AM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Man that's a lot of numbers.

Look. The M5 is the best 5 Series you can buy. It's the fastest, most involved one.

All I'm saying is you might not NEED all that performance. If you don't, an M550 is a nice choice, and still a car you can enjoy every day with performance better than most previous M cars. That doesn't mean it's NOT an M car.
Haha like I said, finance guy...

I agree you may not need all that performance and that is 10000% fine. The majority of people just get a thrill out of smacking the gas pedal at the light briefly to get in front of someone and a 335 or even 328 will likely jump the majority of cars out there. They're great daily drivers. I'll never agree though that you can slap a few performance items here and there and then consider an M340/M550 a true M car.

We're all entitled to our opinion. I personally think the M moniker should be reserved for the highest tier performance variants as it was originally intended. Those who really care about sports/performance cars will always look at the M2, M3, M4 etc as THE bmw cars to aspire to. I think the current ///Marketing on the non-M cars dilutes what made the M's so special in the first place and that to me is a shame.
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      01-17-2020, 11:54 AM   #417
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      01-17-2020, 11:59 AM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kavo11 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
I really did own an M3, for 10 years, and even tracked it.

The M340 would walk the e92, since it's MUCH faster in a straight line and more than equal with its cornering grip. I'm well aware of the M mantra of overall capability, but that's what the M340 has.

Lets look at the M550 vs M5:
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...-m550i-xdrive/

"25 percent price increase for maybe 17 percent more performance"

I get that the M5 is a better car, with more road "feel", but the M550 has the Performance of the previous F10 generation. The article says the 550 feels great. I'm just wondering why the 550 isn't an M car since it has M performance.

I say this often for people who use "because track" as a reason, but Modern M cars are heavy and big. Even that E92, while excellent at the limit and forgiving, was heavy to push around all day. You can feel the weight in the corners. Why are you tracking a car with full back seats and leather etc on a consistent basis?

So, if you have the finances for just one car that you need to use every day and track often, get the M3. I'll be a half second behind you having just as much fun.
Again, you're comparing a car that's 12 YEARS older and 2 GENERATIONS older. Compare the 335i to the e9x m3 and tell me they're anywhere close to the same.

To your point about 17% better performance for 25% price premium... It's called the law of diminishing returns. 17% performance increase is a substantial increase. Let's apply this example to school. A student that always gets 100% likely has to work at least 25% harder than the 83% student to get the 17% grade increase. For most people, being a low B student is acceptable and they settle for that score. Again, no issues with it. But that 83% student better not go around claiming to be a 100% A+ student because they aren't. Its a significant difference.

To your final point, I highly disagree if you actually think a M550 will be just a half second behind a M5 on a track. In a straight line, maybe its close to M-like performance, but it'll never have M like involvement or M fun factor. Try breaking that rear end loose like an M5 with precision control and not find yourself getting thrashed around like a ragdoll pointing the other direction.
Man that's a lot of numbers.

Look. The M5 is the best 5 Series you can buy. It's the fastest, most involved one.

All I'm saying is you might not NEED all that performance. If you don't, an M550 is a nice choice, and still a car you can enjoy every day with performance better than most previous M cars. That doesn't mean it's NOT an M car.
M550i is a fantastic car.

Funny to see M5s stuck in traffic and crawling at 3MPH like everybody else...
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