C8 Z06......Wow

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Saying and doing are 2 different things.

Like i said, no one in front of me has dropped off and i'm 152 or something on mac's list. I was PM'ing some people from the corvette forum who were 383 and i think the other guy was 411 and no one has jumped off yet either. I know it's still early since they just announced the price last week but anyone smart would not get off the list.

As i said earlier. Those who were ready to drop 90-95k on this car, are still ready to drop 105-120k or so on this car. Unless, as i also said earlier, they never could really afford this car and was really banking on the lowest possible MSRP to get such a beast. As you pointed out with acquiring debt of this magnitude during a recession.

I thought it'd be around 90 or 92k max. But i also thought they'd keep this car under 100k. And it ended up being 106 starting.

I was ready to buy the car at 90-92k and i'm still ready to buy the car at the actual price of 106k. I know when it comes down to it, with taxes and fees whatever it'll total to around 120k. I'm still ready to buy the car.

There are a lot of people on that forum that make good money. And it's not the actual price they have an issue with, it's more about politics and they feel GM is "screwing" them because the new z06 pricing isn't in line with previous z06 generation pricing. Because they even said it themselves, they said they are out and are willing to buy a used huracan or something like that.

So either they're lying about that, or they flat out can't afford the car at all. Or they're lying about all that as a whole and they're still getting the car but feel the need to complain about not buying it on the forums.

The comparison to a used exotic becomes relevant because many exotics in this price range have already fully depreciated or close to it, while a loaded z06 could lose $30-50k in the span of two years, especially if dealers start offering discounts.

I suspect most people that are early on the lists will buy either way because they think the opportunity to flip the car may still be there even if they don’t want the car themselves. Once it starts going further down the list the demand will likely decrease. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I’ve seen this movie before. Hopefully the car lives up to and exceeds expectations. If they start putting out cars with blown engines and other mechanical problems people will have even more reason to balk at the price tag.

[spiceyxi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Saying and doing are 2 different things.

Like i said, no one in front of me has dropped off and i'm 152 or something on mac's list. I was PM'ing some people from the corvette forum who were 383 and i think the other guy was 411 and no one has jumped off yet either. I know it's still early since they just announced the price last week but anyone smart would not get off the list.

I am on the MacList as well and >1,000 spots behind you. Over this weekend I didn't move at all either. I think it is a bit early to see movement from the price announcement just yet.

Even before the pricing I did move down a few spots. I think people's impatience and/or economic realities will start catching up now the car is moving to production though.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

The comparison to a used exotic becomes relevant because many exotics in this price range have already fully depreciated or close to it, while a loaded z06 could lose $30-50k in the span of two years, especially if dealers start offering discounts.

I suspect most people that are early on the lists will buy either way because they think the opportunity to flip the car may still be there even if they don’t want the car themselves. Once it starts going further down the list the demand will likely decrease. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I’ve seen this movie before. Hopefully the car lives up to and exceeds expectations. If they start putting out cars with blown engines and other mechanical problems people will have even more reason to balk at the price tag.

I highly doubt that's the case. Lots of people say things and don't do, especially on the corvette forum.

This z06 has opened up an entirely new field of potential buyers and that's why GM was bold enough to price the z06 they way they did, of course with inflation added to it.

We don't even know how many z06's and for how many model years they are going to produce so it's more favored to say that they have already sold out this z06 for the entire life of it's potential production. Even if one were to take the risk of getting one at it's price without knowing the future could still own this car for 1-3 years and break even or still make profit at the end of it.

To even think they will be offering discounts on this car and they didn't even go into production yet is crazy talk man lol.

This is the car that everyone wants. People are only thinking about an ERAY at this point is because they are losing hope that they can even acquire a z06 at all during it's production, that's why people, high up on the list, are considering backing out.

There's a spreadsheet on the mac wait list. Not many are moving at all. Why would they? This is the last time they would be able to get a car like this. After this, that's it there's no more. It's hybrid small engine probably or full EV.

People aren't going to toss this car away just because it's 10k or so more than what they wanted to pay. This is no different that people still paying 100K for a used 20-21 stingray just so they can have the car NOW, instead of waiting 12-15 months for one at MSRP.

The z06 will be the car people want for a very long time.

[Quadruple VANOS]

It'll take a economic depression (not recession); or a total retreat from banning ICE to generate a new C8 Z06 priced below retail.

[Alfisti]

People's failure to understand fundamental economic principles is astounding. The idea that much higher lending rates and a sticker 20% higher than expected will not impact demand is fucking hilarious.

You're the reason we're in this mess to begin with.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

There are a lot of people on that forum that make good money. And it's not the actual price they have an issue with, it's more about politics and they feel GM is "screwing" them because the new z06 pricing isn't in line with previous z06 generation pricing. Because they even said it themselves, they said they are out and are willing to buy a used Huracan or something like that.

GM had to let go of the past with this Z06. The market suggests a higher delta between the Z06 and the base model with the new midengine platform and since most manufacturers are moving away from ICE engines moving forward.

So if some think a used Huracan is a better "bargain", then get it. It's nice to have choices in the midengine marketplace.

This Z06 has real value at this specific time, so if I were GM, I would price it accordingly. I think the pricing is fine, especially when you look at how much a GT3, Lambo or R8 costs these days. Hec, even M4s can land at $100k. Special Caymans and Boxsters are well able $100k. GM made a great car, and the Z06 is set up to be a real winner...so enthusiasts should pay for it. If you don't want to, buy something else...and free up the allocation.

And the fact that frustrated people will still buy it and then just flip it to make a profit PROVES that the car is worth more than the MSRP, so why can't GM cash in on some of that too?

[Alfisti]

TBH the price point is fine, the only issue is the Corvette badge it wears so there's a bit of a conundrum as there's only so many people with this kind of cash who want to spend it on a GM Vette and the usual Vette buyer is maybe priced out.

You can't keep just comparing numbers, there's status. Some of you may be aware I was cross shopping a PP2 stang with a 997.2 911, similar price points, stang actually the better numbers other than through seriously tight turns and everyone here laughed at the stang option and said get the 911.

So your Z0whatever may be as good or better than a R8 or a GT3 or a Hurucan but that is not the be all and end of the pricing discussion.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

So your Z0whatever may be as good or better than a R8 or a GT3 or a Hurucan but that is not the be all and end of the pricing discussion.

GM will sell every Z06 they make if the car is as good as we expect. Maybe some regular Vette owners will struggle to afford it, but there will be other suitors for such a car.

And in America, there's A LOT of people with money, we have so much wealth, bolstered by a stock market for years. So for many, money won't be an issue. Similar midengine or rear-engine Porsches will still be wayyyy more money than this Vette so...it's still a considerable bargain.

But if you're rich enough to spend $200k on a marked-up GT3, then you will, but there will be plenty of people who will still want this Vette, at a relative bargain price.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

GM had to let go of the past with this Z06. The market suggests a higher delta between the Z06 and the base model with the new midengine platform and since most manufacturers are moving away from ICE engines moving forward.

So if some think a used Huracan is a better "bargain", then get it. It's nice to have choices in the midengine marketplace.

This Z06 has real value at this specific time, so if I were GM, I would price it accordingly. I think the pricing is fine, especially when you look at how much a GT3, Lambo or R8 costs these days. Hec, even M4s can land at $100k. Special Caymans and Boxsters are well able $100k. GM made a great car, and the Z06 is set up to be a real winner...so enthusiasts should pay for it. If you don't want to, buy something else...and free up the allocation.

And the fact that frustrated people will still buy it and then just flip it to make a profit PROVES that the car is worth more than the MSRP, so why can't GM cash in on some of that too?

We don’t know what the z06 is capable of track wise and it’s not even a drag car and right off the bat it supposedly runs 10.6 for an NA car that weighs 3700lbs? Sounds decent for it’s weight.

People keep saying it’s a corvette but you’re not buying a z06 to ride in a luxury sports car. You’re also not buying this z06 so you can beat plaids on the street. A lot of people, even with very deep pockets want a track toy that they have no care for since it’s cheap to acquire. These guys with 488’s and gt2rs’s might want a cheaper alternative to have fun at a track day, they will most definitely buy a z06. They’re not considering a gt63amg which is more luxurious and I assume easier to make more power for the track if they’re unable to get a z06.

For people to completely forget about this car because it’s 10k more than expected is foolishness. They know they won’t find something like that for the price brand new. They can get a used R8 which is a supercar but again you’re paying more, for something used, without a warranty, slower and without knowing it’s past life and how it’s driven.

GM gave us their version of the 458 for half the price, with a warranty, more power, faster and actually sounds better and people want to consider a used huracan for more money? That doesn’t make sense. If an exotic car is what they were after, they’d never consider a z06 in the first place nor were they ever serious if they changed their mind because the car ended up costing 10k more than what they thought.

In the end I hope people back out, so when I’m driving mine I can see all the drooling faces that I believe were the ones that wanted the car lol.

It’ll make that experience so much better.

[Alfisti]

Jesus you gibber some shit.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

People's failure to understand fundamental economic principles is astounding. The idea that much higher lending rates and a sticker 20% higher than expected will not impact demand is fucking hilarious.

You're the reason we're in this mess to begin with.

x2

I think everyone expects the car to be great, that's not really in question and I'd still be interested in buying one myself at current MSRP, though it wouldn't be the screaming bargain I was expecting. Maybe people here weren't around for every previous generation of Z06 being given away for $10-20k off sticker (or more). To say that discounts won't be available is also laughable, this is still Chevy we are talking about. It could be the best car on the planet and they can still build enough to discount them if the price is high enough. What if MSRP was $180k? Everyone has their breaking point for buying where it's no longer worth it. Name the last American-made sports car that was never sold at a discount. i can't think of any, even cars like the Viper ACR and Demon were sold at discounts from what I remember though I could be wrong.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

x2

I think everyone expects the car to be great, that's not really in question and I'd still be interested in buying one myself at current MSRP, though it wouldn't be the screaming bargain I was expecting. Maybe people here weren't around for every previous generation of Z06 being given away for $10-20k off sticker (or more). To say that discounts won't be available is also laughable, this is still Chevy we are talking about. It could be the best car on the planet and they can still build enough to discount them if the price is high enough. What if MSRP was $180k? Everyone has their breaking point for buying where it's no longer worth it. Name the last American-made sports car that was never sold at a discount. i can't think of any, even cars like the Viper ACR and Demon were sold at discounts from what I remember though I could be wrong.

Look if it was 6 months ago i get the argument that demand well outstrips supply but right now, temperature has changed. It's no coincidence that in both the real estate and car markets, it's the blue ribband long term bets that are holding value.

[Humdizzle]

https://www.corvetteforum.com/articl...z06-price-tag/

Fans React to Higher-Than-Expected 2023 Corvette Z06 Price Tag

Pricing for the 2023 Corvette Z06 is higher than expected, but many still plan on buying one.

After many months of waiting, General Motors finally announced 2023 Corvette Z06 pricing earlier this week, and needless to say, it was a bit more than most folks expected. Coming in at $106,395 for the for the 1LZ coupe, $113,895 for the 1LZ convertible, $115,595 for the 2LZ coupe, $122,595 for the 2LZ convertible, $120,245 for the 3LZ coupe, and $127,245 for the 3LZ convertible, not including the extra $17-19k for the Z07 package or additional options that can drive the price up past the $150k mark. That's a whole lot of money by most people’s standards, but in all fairness, the 2023 Corvette Z06 is a heck of a lot of car. Regardless, a pair of threads in the Corvette Forum resulted in some pretty interesting takes on this news, too, many of them laced with anger and disappointment.


“Terrible news. So not only did GM string us along forever, but they also outright lied to us about the price differential to a base Stingray being in line with the prior gen,” said Armchair Architect. “$45k+ (after gas guzzler tax) for an engine upgrade package and wider body, with no lightweighting at all? No thanks. GM just pulled the biggest ‘blue *****’ move in all of automotive history. I don’t think they realize how much negative PR/bad will they have generated throughout this whole debacle which culminated in this nonsense. Oh, and orders open up on the day (July 28) when Q2 GDP figures are released and we officially learn that we’re in a recession!”


Of course, not everyone is disappointed by this news, as it will make quite a few folks drop out of the running in terms of actually buying a new Z06. “Love it! I know this sounds snobby, but I’m happy it’s more expensive so I won’t have to wait forever to get one,” said marknagy13. “The C8 is still an amazing car for people where this is slightly out of their price range. My two cents is that Chevy didn’t want to blend the price of this vs. a used C8. That wouldn’t be a good biz model.”


In spite of a veritable wave of negative comments surrounding GM’s pricing of the 2023 Corvette Z06, a poll in this thread indicates that roughly 47 percent of Corvette Forum readers still plan on buying one, compared to the 17 percent that won’t and 35 percent that are still on the fence, as of this writing.

[Alfisti]

Meh, that's one random on a forum.

[M3WC]

What do you get in used market? 2018 R8, those will run you $150k. 991.1 GT3 go for $140k, but realistically I'd want the .2(which are $180k+). The .1 navigation is horrid. A clean 458 with low mileage and good service history is over $200k. Plus anything you buy used will have no warranty. Honestly the C8 Z06 in today's market is a good deal starting at $106k.

[Alfisti]

I don't disagree, it's just an awkward target market.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by M3WC

What do you get in used market? 2018 R8, those will run you $150k. 991.1 GT3 go for $140k, but realistically I'd want the .2(which are $180k+). The .1 navigation is horrid. A clean 458 with low mileage and good service history is over $200k. Plus anything you buy used will have no warranty. Honestly the C8 Z06 in today's market is a good deal starting at $106k.

106 is a smoking deal. The thing most people are shocked about is what the average transaction price will be / how much many will be decontenting their build due to package and option prices. 106 might be the starting price but 145 will be a pretty common price, IMO, if people get the things they wanted when the car was announced.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by M3WC

What do you get in used market? 2018 R8, those will run you $150k. 991.1 GT3 go for $140k, but realistically I'd want the .2(which are $180k+). The .1 navigation is horrid. A clean 458 with low mileage and good service history is over $200k. Plus anything you buy used will have no warranty. Honestly the C8 Z06 in today's market is a good deal starting at $106k.

Exactly.

I honestly believe it's not the actual price now that people don't like. It's the expectation of hoping for a 90k price tag for so long because they're using previous generation price lines for the z06 and assuming it's going to be the same this time around. In a time where we're in an economical collapse.

Like i said earlier. If those people were ready to buy a 90-92k car. They are still ready to buy one at 105-110 or so. A lot of people who expected a 90s MSRP were going to spec their car to what would've totaled out to around 110-115k anyway. And knowing the trim levels and what they offer, people are now realizing it doesn't even make sense to go with a 2LZ. So they're going to pay the price they thought they would've got with the 2LZ except now they know they don't need it, so they're going to pay the same price originally anyway!!!!

In the end, the people who really wanted this car will get it. I want this car so 90k, 98k, 105k, i don't care what it cost. If the MSRP was 125k, i'm still getting it. It would suck to pay more but you're also getting a lot of car.

Instead of paying fucking 130-140k for a fucking 2014 R8 with 30k miles not knowing where it's been but hey, it's an R8 so i can show off i have an exotic car! Fuck that shit.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jesus you gibber some shit.

Ha ha ha !! Amen to that. There are definitely a bunch of M fanboys here which is expected. But this dude takes the Chevy cock balls deep. Lol. Come up for air my friend.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

106 is a smoking deal. The thing most people are shocked about is what the average transaction price will be / how much many will be decontenting their build due to package and option prices. 106 might be the starting price but 145 will be a pretty common price, IMO, if people get the things they wanted when the car was announced.

Tadge flat out lied to all of us when he said the price increase would be in line with past gens. That would have put the starting MSRP around $90k.

Good news is, with my low #, I can likely flip it if I don't like it enough & get that R8 or McLaren...

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by M3WC

What do you get in used market? 2018 R8, those will run you $150k. 991.1 GT3 go for $140k, but realistically I'd want the .2(which are $180k+). The .1 navigation is horrid. A clean 458 with low mileage and good service history is over $200k. Plus anything you buy used will have no warranty. Honestly the C8 Z06 in today's market is a good deal starting at $106k.

You can still buy a 458 for under $200k.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Looks is subjective but you can park both cars in a lot somewhere and everyone will gravitate towards the C8Z. Or you can park the GT4 and a stingray in a lot somewhere and everyone will gravitate towards the stingray.

A mid engine DCT car with a V8 that sounds like a ferrari making 670hp for 106k that supposedly runs 10.6 in the 1/4 for a car that's not a drag car that's rumored to run the ring at 7 minutes (we'll see), is not a bargain of century?

Give me an example of something better for the price, brand new.

Maybe while the C8Z is new.

Base C8 get more attention than a GT4? Meh, as a former Vette owner and someone getting a C8Z, I would take a longer look at the GT4.