2024 740i-xDrive Invoice And Average Dealer Discount

[DWWS]

Good afternoon!

I’m new to the site and I am old & easily confused so I need some help/advice! Lol! I’m looking into buying a 2024 740ix in Aventurin Red Metallic with multiple options & packages. On the BMW website builder the MSRP comes to $117,495. Here’s where the confusion (for me, at least) begins. I asked my dealer, from whom I’ve purchase 2 previous BMWs, for a breakdown sheet of the invoice price vs the MSRP of all the costs/packages/options associated with my build. He told me, repeatedly, that “I won’t have an invoice price/can’t get the invoice price UNTIL THE CAR IS IN PRODUCTION”. In other words, he’s claiming that he/the dealership won’t know the invoice price/costs of the car until I put down a $5,000 non-refundable deposit and commit to buying the car. I have never had this experience before, I have never had too much trouble getting invoice versus MSRP prices for vehicles I’ve been interested in, both for the base price of the vehicle and then for each option or package that I choose. It doesn’t make any sense to me, logically, to suggest that the invoice price is unavailable Until the car is actually being built. That sounds like what I might politely refer to as a “fib”. He also insists that their invoice price is exactly 6% below the MSRP. He offered me roughly 1% off the MSRP (about $1,200) and told me that’s where they’d be selling me the car. None of this sounds even remotely reasonable and I’m just wondering if some of you far more knowledgeable forum members could please help me and tell me if I’m being lied to and how to go about getting the best price on a car that’s going to need to be special ordered because they don’t have anything like this on any lot that I’ve seen thus far. Thank you in advance for all your help and I’m really sorry if these are stupid questions; this is not something I know a lot about. And I don’t want to get ripped off. And I really want to know if I’m being lied to. Right to my face. That would upset me.

Thank you so much,

David Stott in NJ

[strohw]

There are multiple brokers on here or the Leasehackr Marketplace forum that can get you 8-10% off that build.

[alex2364]

You can find invoice pricing here. https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2024/bm...onal-equipment

But the real question is why do you care or want the invoice price? Most frequent BMW buyers negotiate a percentage off the MSRP, typically anywhere between 6 - 12% off depending on the model. Like the previous post said, all BMW brokers on Leasehackr do this as well.

[DWWS]

I didn’t realize that. Whenever I’ve bought a car previously I’ve always worked of the invoice price and negotiated from there? Usually to slightly below invoice price. However, I haven’t bought a car in quite a while so I’m not sure what to do. I remember (long ago, mind you) someone telling me that the invoice price was what was important since that was supposed to indicate what the dealer paid for the car (not factoring in any dealer holdbacks or things like that). Negotiate of off the invoice price supposedly gave a cleared indication of how much the dealership was marking things up. But, as I mentioned, this is not something I’m particularly knowledgeable about and I realize that I could be totally wrong.

[Condorll]

Originally Posted by DWWS

Good afternoon!

I’m new to the site and I am old & easily confused so I need some help/advice! Lol! I’m looking into buying a 2024 740ix in Aventurin Red Metallic with multiple options & packages. On the BMW website builder the MSRP comes to $117,495. Here’s where the confusion (for me, at least) begins. I asked my dealer, from whom I’ve purchase 2 previous BMWs, for a breakdown sheet of the invoice price vs the MSRP of all the costs/packages/options associated with my build. He told me, repeatedly, that “I won’t have an invoice price/can’t get the invoice price UNTIL THE CAR IS IN PRODUCTION”. In other words, he’s claiming that he/the dealership won’t know the invoice price/costs of the car until I put down a $5,000 non-refundable deposit and commit to buying the car. I have never had this experience before, I have never had too much trouble getting invoice versus MSRP prices for vehicles I’ve been interested in, both for the base price of the vehicle and then for each option or package that I choose. It doesn’t make any sense to me, logically, to suggest that the invoice price is unavailable Until the car is actually being built. That sounds like what I might politely refer to as a “fib”. He also insists that their invoice price is exactly 6% below the MSRP. He offered me roughly 1% off the MSRP (about $1,200) and told me that’s where they’d be selling me the car. None of this sounds even remotely reasonable and I’m just wondering if some of you far more knowledgeable forum members could please help me and tell me if I’m being lied to and how to go about getting the best price on a car that’s going to need to be special ordered because they don’t have anything like this on any lot that I’ve seen thus far. Thank you in advance for all your help and I’m really sorry if these are stupid questions; this is not something I know a lot about. And I don’t want to get ripped off. And I really want to know if I’m being lied to. Right to my face. That would upset me.

Thank you so much,

David Stott in NJ

You should be able to get at least 6% off MSRP on a car you are ordering from your dealer. If he won't negotiate, go to another dealer and try to swing that deal, get it in writing then go back to your preferred dealer (if you want to) and tell him to match or preferably better that deal or you will lose my business, period. This is exactly what I did by the way. My preferred dealer was not happy but he bettered the deal and kept my business. Waiting till the car is in production is BS, they know the pricing.

[DWWS]

Yeah, it’s that last part that bothers me; it sounded like a flat-out lie.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by DWWS

I didn’t realize that. Whenever I’ve bought a car previously I’ve always worked of the invoice price and negotiated from there? Usually to slightly below invoice price. However, I haven’t bought a car in quite a while so I’m not sure what to do. I remember (long ago, mind you) someone telling me that the invoice price was what was important since that was supposed to indicate what the dealer paid for the car (not factoring in any dealer holdbacks or things like that). Negotiate of off the invoice price supposedly gave a cleared indication of how much the dealership was marking things up. But, as I mentioned, this is not something I’m particularly knowledgeable about and I realize that I could be totally wrong.

I did this as well 15 years ago buying Hondas and Toyotas. But German manufacturers like to use percentages off the MSRP especially when you’re building a car from allocation. The dealer and manufacturer make more money when you add options to a car so if you add more options and increase the MSRP, you’d get a higher discount from the percentage. This is more fair for both sides because the dealer doesn’t how you will option the build and you can even change your mind on options before the build locks, thereby changing the MSRP and invoice.

[vreihen16]

This question would be better asked in one of the "topic" forums here, and not the web site problems section that very few people read.....

[DWWS]

I don’t think I’m allowed to post there yet… I think I’m too new of a member? Something like that? Or I could be completely confused. That’s a very likely possibility. Lol.

[paul e]

When I bought my 340 I found the dealer invoice price in a variety of locations.

I offered $1500 over invoice and that was accepted.

[DroMike]

There's certainly nothing wrong with or negotiating up FROM an invoice price in your mind. But as is noted here, BMW dealership-speak or tradition is that you express your offer as a price below MSRP. So go ahead and know what the car cost the dealership, and ensure they DO get SOME modicum of profit, but when you make your offer, make it in whole or half percentages off MRSP. "I'll give you 6.5% off MSRP," etc.

As far as the actual invoice prices, or what they paid for the car, no dealership will provide that to you up front. They may provide it for you later, after you've made some type of commitment. You CAN factory order a car for a modest price of $1,000, and if you change your mind -- esp. before it goes into production -- that money is refundable! You should be able to get invoice info from them after you've ordered but before it goes into production. You can cancel if when you (in football terms) get up to the line and don't like what you see...

His claim that he paid 6% off MSRP, while not horribly far from the truth, is still less than accurate. Because I hate to see you or anybody taken, below I've attached the wholesale/MRSP VIR (Vehicle Inquiry Report) on my 2024 i7 eDrive50. You can directly compare the invoice against the MSRP price and then do the math for your particular car and options, including all packages, etc. BTW, I've truncated it to exclude items without any figures involved (i.e., standard no-charge items) and of course my name and the dealership which released it to me perhaps by mistake. If you look at the numbers you can see that the dealer paid roughly 92.9% - 93.4% of the MRSP to BMW, i.e., 6.6% to 7.1% off. That's why I say your dealer was less than accurate with that lowly 6% off everything statement. Of course this also doesn't include a dealer holdback where the dealer will get $2K to 6K held back by BMW to give to the dealer for selling a unit. You're not supposed to know about this or at least it would be, um, gauche to bring it up to the dealer, but this is why they can actually sell BELOW "invoice." I asked for and was happy enough with 7% off MSRP for my i7. Others here have done a little better, or a little worse.

DEFINITELY email even up to a half-dozen other dealerships, tell them you're a serious buyer, and make an offer you feel comfortable with (starting with about 6%). Some will give it to you, others won't (depending on time of year, what BMW is selling and what they aren't and other considerations). You'll quickly get a "feel" for how far dealers will bend and who is willing to sell for more so another dealer won't get the sale.

Anyway, when they DO, email the next dealer and say that dealer "A" or "C", etc. gave you "X" price or discount but you want to do better, or, I just like you more than the last dealer, etc. Something like that. Sure, it's a little sneaky, but there's nothing illegal about it. Believe me, they'll be trying to bleed money from you on any number of things, like (a) the close but not exactly correct "I-pay-6% off MSRP," (b) this "non-refundable $5K down payment crap, and (c) his 1% discount counter (HAHAHAHA!) to you that you've already experienced. Also, get ready for the after-purchase full-court press (switching to basketball) of, extended warranties, rustproofing and financing (where they make most of their money). You're trying to get the best price for YOU, right? All is fair in love and war, and when you've dealing with a 6-figure automobile, it ain't love.

But above all, don't feel you need to be dictated to by any one single dealer. If you're in New Jersey, you should have a good number of dealerships in a 100-mile radius. You can do this all in front of your computer and not physically go into any dealership. The only time I physically went INTO the dealership was to pick up the car after I'd negotiated all to my satisfaction over emails.

ALSO, if you're paying cash, DO NOT tell them or admit to this until you have negotiated a price in writing first. "How will you be paying?" is the FIRST question they'll ask you. Either avoid the question/charge the subject, or simply say, I'm thinking of financing, which of course isn't a commitment either way. When they hear "financing" they'll be way more open to giving you a larger discount. Why? Because they'll make a huge profit on the thousands of dollars in interest they'll collect on the back-end of course.

Best of luck to you and enjoy your beautiful new car if and when you make the deal!

Mike

[DWWS]

Mike, you are a Scholar & a Gentleman! Thank you so much! I just have a few questions if I may just to clarify exactly what I’m dealing with here because I have bought other cars from the dealership and I’m a little disappointed in what’s happening now. The first question is, is there any truth to the salesman telling me that they won’t have the Invoice amount until the car is in production? That doesn’t even make any sense simply from a business standpoint. I think that’s a bold face lie but I also know that I am wildly ignorant about this so maybe I’m wrong? The other thing is what’s this nonsense about a $5000 nonrefundable deposit? Can they do that? Where is that coming from? I mean the salesman said it right to me I have the email but it sounds like that may not be something that’s entirely kosher? Just wondering. I’m definitely going to start researching other dealerships! Thank you so much for taking all that time to craft such an incredibly thorough response! I really really appreciate it!

[DroMike]

Glad to help.

As for your first question, logic and common sense tells us they've long known what the invoice amount has and was for all cars on their lot. They can't be in business without knowing in advance what the cars cost them to be put on the lot and determine what profit they may make! That invoice sheet I gave you for a 2024 vehicle is dated in September, 2023!

However, you really shouldn't think of it as a matter of a boldface lie. They're doing business with you. They may tell you anything they want to get your sale. That's just the way the game is played. If a salesman told THAT to me, personally, I would've looked him in the eye and said, "Oh, c'mon, you really don't think I'm so stupid as to believe that do you?!" It certainly IS a boldfaced lie but don't take it personally. However, I must say, that's a really bad sign for a dealer relationship and just on that alone I'd knock their dealership WAY down on your "I'd-really-like-to-do-business-with-you" list.

As for the deposit amount per se, they can certainly charge anything they want.

Re the non-refundable part of it, you can only go on what they say their terms are. If you're asking me is it legal for them to make it non-refundable, I don't know. You'll have to check w/your state's attorneys'-general office or whatever agency is the right one. HOWEVER, it's completely hard for me to believe that if you back out of your deal they would or could in good conscience -- maybe even legally -- keep your entire $5,000 if they've not lost anything. I'd think they COULD get away with maybe 10% for admin/restocking type punitive fees but that would be absolutely it. You'd really have to go onto Google or make calls. I'd bet you dollars to donuts that this is total bullshit.

Now the REAL real crux of this point is that the terms seem wildly unfriendly, and in your words, not business like. I completely agree. You can counter by simply exercising your rights to take your business elsewhere. If the dealer's geographical location is something you covet, well, that could be good and bad. Using the tact I mentioned, you could inquire with other dealers via email. Should they not mention any non-refundable deposit you can contact this original dealer and tell him/her that you feel more comfortable with the second dealer's [less money deposit] [refundable terms] [etc.]. Perhaps that original dealer may then relax his/her terms to retain your business.

The dealers will "act" as friends of you (although your guy doesn't seem keen on that at the moment), but they don't care at all about you personally. They're there just to reap the largest profit any way they can. You can shop around for the best deal like you might for an auction item on ebay (making offers or bids), or for a hammer at any hardware store where you may obtain the lowest price. Afterward, are you going to care about them as friends or whether or not they were forthcoming, truthful or accurate on some of the details? No. Afterward, you just want to have your product or commodity and be satisfied that you made a reasonable deal for yourself. Remember, you can still go to, and be welcome at your closest/local dealer for any servicing or repairs -- think of the car sales and parts/service as two completely separate entities, which in fact they are. It doesn't matter if you bought your car in Timbuktu so long as you have a BMW warranty, etc. Feel free to purchase your car anywhere -- after all the ka-ching'ing is over, adios, you don't need them anymore.

OMG, can I STOP "talking" here, or what?!

BTW, there are also a lot of posts not only on this G70 forum but other BMW subforums here re folks' experiences with these things. You might want to spend an hour or two drudging up more helpful and real world information. Absolutely DON'T be satisfied with MY (or just one or two others') information only. Consider what more owners' experiences are similarly.

Mike

[AlteBMW]

The thing I don't like about the dealer DWWS is dealing with is the lack of respect for the customer. Yes it is true that dealers want to maximize profit and are not your friends. At the same time you can have a business relationship that is based on mutual respect (like many other business relationships). That means your desire for the right car at a fair price in a fair deal is respected, and the dealer's need to make a profit is respected. That's where a deal gets made.

IMHO, a $5000 nonrefundable deposit request means the dealer does not think the customer is serious; it is a way to say "I really don't want to do business with you." I have seen deposits often for popular models, but $1000 refundable. That should be enough of a placeholder for a dealer to order a car (or even hold a car on the lot, pending finalization of the deal). As for pricing transparency, there is a lot of data out there for customers and a dealer who distorts information is again disrespecting the customer.

Finally, I see the situation about you're done after you buy a bit differently. I go back to the same dealer repeatedly exactly because the relationship is solid and the service is superb (they've delivered cars to my house after service, for example, comped some things that didn't need to be comped, and treated me well with respect for my time and also for my knowledge of these cars). I almost surely do not pay the lowest price possible, but that is okay. We have done fair deals for both me and them. The service I get is worth something to me. There is something to be said about being a "valued customer" even if that has become a trite phrase.

[DroMike]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

IMHO, a $5000 nonrefundable deposit request means the dealer does not think the customer is serious; it is a way to say "I really don't want to do business with you." I have seen deposits often for popular models, but $1000 refundable. That should be enough of a placeholder for a dealer to order a car (or even hold a car on the lot, pending finalization of the deal).

OP: I wholeheartedly agree with AlteBMW's comment, particularly the first sentence. When I first read about the $5K deposit, it seemed like a slap in the face to me. When I interfaced with the first dealership re my i7 order, they told me they'd need a $1,000 deposit and wanted to do a credit check. I told them I thought it premature for a credit check and they immediately raised the deposit price. Once I acquiesced (I didn't care that much -- my credit is excellent), it was back to the very standard $1,000. I believe at the beginning it matters that you convey your staunch seriousness as a buyer.

Otherwise it's true that there's no downside to building a relationship with a dealer -- I'm certainly not advocating being enemies -- but if you're a one-off sale and/or not planning on being a repeat customer, I think it matters little. In the end, it's still just a business deal of somebody supplying you a product you want to purchase, and not much else after you drive away in your new car. You'll still receive the universally courteous service afterward and a year or two down the road, half the employees will have moved on anyway.

[DWWS]

I agree with everything you’re all saying and I greatly appreciate the advice and support. And as far as the disrespect is concerned, and not thinking I’m a serious buyer, don’t forget, I’ve purchased two cars from this dealer! I’m sitting in my X7 as I typed this and my daughter had an X6 for a while that she traded in for something else eventually. But I bought both of those cars from this dealer and from this exact sales person. I have no idea what’s going on and I thought it’s so strange that I wanted to come hereand get advice from knowledgeable people like yourselves because it almost seems surreal to me. I have purchased two cars from this man. I have no idea what his problem is. It’s frustrating but as you know there are plenty of other dealers around.

[DWWS]

For anyone curious/iterested/bored, here are some of the emails between my sales person & me. Bear in mind as you read these that this is someone from whom I’ve already bought 2 cars…

[Berliner]

Please get another salesman, he is neither friendly nor interested in selling you your third car (okay of course he is, but he is not willing to put any effort in this, even if it's just for your "good feeling" or to show some endeavours). The offer is plain ridiculous in my opinion.

He didn't take 30 seconds to write these messages. It's really unprofessional. But not "I am your friend, so please excuse my typos, we talk that way to each other" unprofessional. Just unprofessional

I would not be interested in getting this guy a commission. No way. I'd pay full MSRP somewhere else when the going gets tough, but not with this guy

[LVBMW]

Originally Posted by DWWS

For anyone curious/iterested/bored, here are some of the emails between my sales person & me. Bear in mind as you read these that this is someone from whom I’ve already bought 2 cars…

Contact a broker (Autocompanion, Insight Auto) - many good ones on the Leasehackr forum page (I used Autocompanion) and get their offer which will almost certainly be infinitely better than your dealer's offer but can be used as a bargaining chip.

[DroMike]

Just so much poppycock from this guy. I continue to agree with the others -- your salesman is bad news. Dump him in the Bay (I have my SF Bay, but feel free to use your Sandy Hook or Delaware Bays)!

All in all, I'm sorry you're getting either the runaround or a hard sell. And you, a multi-car repeat customer (I myself am only on my first BMW)! What's his problem?! I mean geez, I'm still fairly pleasant and reasonable while HIS team didn't lose the Superbowl!!

[AlteBMW]

My message to the salesman especially on thr $5000 nonrefundable for a repeat customer would be, if you want to be polite, "are you kidding me?" and if you don't want to be polite,

[rollingtaser]

my respsone woulde be:

well, i'll have to sleep over this.

and its' very friendly. too friendly... i like the AlteBMW post very much here...

i'm sure you get me