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      05-15-2019, 10:34 AM   #639
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
The 8 speed ZF is a garbage gearbox. Total garbage. Used in pedestrian sedans as a cost cutting tool. Feels underwhelming in every car I've ever driven with it and have driven about 10+ different cars with it.

No manual and no dual clutch = no care. This isn't an enthusiast car it's a marketing exercise.
Apparently a lot of people disagree with you. The ZF is in a number of performance cars including the current M5, next M3, RS5, and Aston Martin DBS Superleggera.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/
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      05-15-2019, 10:42 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
For those that don't want to read the whole article.

Hard to argue this car isn't great value. I don't care what anyone says, the more I see this car the sexier it looks. It's going to be a head turner so if you don't like attention this car isn't for you.
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      05-15-2019, 10:44 AM   #641
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
There are a lot of sheep who buy propaganda. The real verdict is in 5 years when they depreciate heavily and their original owners weren't compelled to keep them around...
So pretty well the same as any current M car in general then?
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      05-15-2019, 11:18 AM   #642
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
So pretty well the same as any current M car in general then?
He's driving a 1M and apparently if it's not a sporty car that's only available in manual and appreciating in value, it's not up to his standards.
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      05-15-2019, 02:30 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
hmmm I wonder why Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, and Lambo (huracan) all use DCT transmissions instead of autos on their sports cars??

ZF is fine for cruising around town. In fact is probably the best automatic on the market. Its great for daily driving.

Not so great as a sports car. There is definite lag on downshifts with every ZF 8 speed I've experienced compared with a DCT.
You are well aware that the needs and constraints of a $2-300k+ exotic are different than those of a $50k “Toyota”

In terms of performance, BMW has judged (right or wrong) that the ZF is also good enough for the Daddy M. Owner reviews I’ve read have been great, so it appears they were right to most people

IMO — the real missing piece here isn’t the DCT, it’s the 6MT I think that’s the more compelling argument instead of splitting hairs between the auto boxes
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      05-15-2019, 03:04 PM   #644
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Funny thing is, of those cars int he test, i'd buy the GT350. if just for the noise and fucking obnoxious-nous of the thing.
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      05-15-2019, 03:28 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
There are a lot of sheep who buy propaganda. The real verdict is in 5 years when they depreciate heavily and their original owners weren't compelled to keep them around...
What does keeping them for 5 years have to do with anything?

I'm 37 years old and never kept any car longer than 3.
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      05-15-2019, 04:41 PM   #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
You are well aware that the needs and constraints of a $2-300k+ exotic are different than those of a $50k “Toyota”

In terms of performance, BMW has judged (right or wrong) that the ZF is also good enough for the Daddy M. Owner reviews I’ve read have been great, so it appears they were right to most people
You can find a DCT in $40k M2 and Golf R. sounds to me like they budgeted the transmission cost to use the money elsewhere in the program. Or to keep the cost of the supra low.

The ZF is in the M5 for a number of reasons. Fuel consumption (no good 8 speed dct on the market). And because DCTs aren't as good in low speed stop and go traffic as an automatic.

but I agree. we wouldn't even be caring about the ZF in this car if they offered a 6MT
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      05-15-2019, 04:45 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
So pretty well the same as any current M car in general then?
Didn't you get the ///M is for Marketing memo?
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      05-15-2019, 05:14 PM   #648
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I think people need to keep perspective here. This is a Toyota; not a Lexus. It's priced right, and thus equipped well IMO. This is more of an M2C, GT350 competitor than a M3C, Corvette GS competitor.

The aftermarket is going to go nuts on this thing. A rwd 2-seat sports car, with 50/50 balance and a highly-tunable powertrain, for $50-60k. I think people predicting demise here are only displaying poor analysis.
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      05-15-2019, 08:08 PM   #649
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100% spot on, you'll find those things with advan and ray wheels, bride sport seats, big wings, and b58s running 450-500 bhp all day
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      05-15-2019, 09:46 PM   #650
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Check out this comparison, I feel like I would stick with a BMW car.

Last edited by joyjoy22; 05-15-2019 at 09:51 PM..
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      05-15-2019, 10:15 PM   #651
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The m4 gts makes 3.8 sec with almost 500 hp

How much is weight comaprison to this supra?
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      05-15-2019, 10:41 PM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
The m4 gts makes 3.8 sec with almost 500 hp

How much is weight comaprison to this supra?
The press release says 3,397lbs, but C&D has it at 3,372lbs.
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      05-16-2019, 05:12 AM   #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
The 8 speed ZF is a garbage gearbox. Total garbage. Used in pedestrian sedans as a cost cutting tool....
Like this one?

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/w652QWz9/9205-D...5-EE8.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]
Still a garbage gearbox. Part of the reason I can't take modern M cars seriously...performance cars are about the details; not the statistics. These days in attention-deficit-Internet-debates the superficial car guys talk about 0-60 times and Ring times. The real peeps into cars don't even care about those things...
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      05-16-2019, 07:45 AM   #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Still a garbage gearbox. Part of the reason I can't take modern M cars seriously...performance cars are about the details; not the statistics. These days in attention-deficit-Internet-debates the superficial car guys talk about 0-60 times and Ring times. The real peeps into cars don't even care about those things...
Can confirm "real peeps" have been discussing 0-60 times long before the Internet.
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      05-16-2019, 08:04 AM   #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Still a garbage gearbox. Part of the reason I can't take modern M cars seriously...performance cars are about the details; not the statistics. These days in attention-deficit-Internet-debates the superficial car guys talk about 0-60 times and Ring times. The real peeps into cars don't even care about those things...
The old True Scotsman, huh?
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      05-16-2019, 09:29 AM   #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Still a garbage gearbox. Part of the reason I can't take modern M cars seriously...performance cars are about the details; not the statistics. These days in attention-deficit-Internet-debates the superficial car guys talk about 0-60 times and Ring times. The real peeps into cars don't even care about those things...
This is a load of crap. I understand what you’re getting at, that the measure of a car is more than stats, and intangibles like feel or emotion are important. That’s absolutely true. But to pretend like that’s the only thing that matters, or that you can’t also appreciate other things like performance, comfort, etc is where we must part company. I assure you there are a lot of “real peeps” that care about all kinds of things.

Your 1M is a modern M car btw
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      05-16-2019, 09:31 AM   #657
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Performance has gotten a bit "meh" though. I mean, the difference between 3.9 and 4.3 to 100 clicks is fuck all, monumentally irrelevant. The actual driving experience is far, far more important to ownership experience than 3.9 vs 4.3.

Which is why i said i'd take the GT350 of those cars listed in the test, just fucking listen to the thing. It's all revs and attitude and glorious noise.
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      05-16-2019, 09:54 AM   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Performance has gotten a bit "meh" though. I mean, the difference between 3.9 and 4.3 to 100 clicks is fuck all, monumentally irrelevant. The actual driving experience is far, far more important to ownership experience than 3.9 vs 4.3.

Which is why i said i'd take the GT350 of those cars listed in the test, just fucking listen to the thing. It's all revs and attitude and glorious noise.
My only gripe with the gt350 is the build quality. They are notorious for having paint defects, trim defects, and if you got stripes they aren't properly aligned with the the rest when coming to seams and panels.

Friend of mine bought one in 2016 through MAS (Military Auto Sales) in Germany. Once he got it, he found paint runs on the lower section of the driverside door, the vents in the front quarter panels were clearly held on with double sided tape (you could see the tape through the gap it created between the panel and the trim), and his hood stripe wasn't lined up at the trunk to the bumper. He had all of that fixed, but within 2 years the motor was burning a ton of oil. Took it to the dealership and they had to order a new motor, which was a month wait just for the motor and then another week or 2 for labor. All covered under warranty, but still quite a bit.

Now, I will say that it was that baby blue they offered a the time so maybe it showed paint runs more? Either way though, the car sounded amazing and handled amazing. A great driving experience every time for sure.

But, if it came down to spending $65k on a sports car with a v8, without going luxury brands, I'd probably go with a ZL1 camaro. Sure, you can go corvette as well, but the supercharger in the ZL1 and that exhaust note are addictive and sound better than the entry trim corvette at $65k. Only downside would be the quality of parts used. But compared to the gt350 that also has lack luster quality parts, at least it doesn't have known assembly quality issues.
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      05-16-2019, 10:36 AM   #659
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Yeah I get the build quality thing, that's a consideration. i guess i am just over the whole OMG this car does 3.9 so so much better than the other at 4.3 ...does it even matter anymore given how fast all these cars are now?
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      05-16-2019, 10:37 AM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Performance has gotten a bit "meh" though. I mean, the difference between 3.9 and 4.3 to 100 clicks is fuck all, monumentally irrelevant. The actual driving experience is far, far more important to ownership experience than 3.9 vs 4.3.

Which is why i said i'd take the GT350 of those cars listed in the test, just fucking listen to the thing. It's all revs and attitude and glorious noise.
As long as you are okay adding a quart of oil every 500 miles. C&D had to add 21 quart to their long term GT350 and they got a good engine;

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...lity-update-3/

Quote:
And then there's the oil-consumption issue: Over 40,000 miles, we added 21.5 quarts of 5W-50. That's in addition to scheduled oil changes. It's the most we've ever added during a long-term test by a long shot. Ford released a supplement to the owner's manual stating that the engine might consume a quart every 500 miles under severe use. "Severe use" pretty accurately sums up our treatment of just about any car, but particularly one with an 8250-rpm redline. And we were lucky; internet forums are rife with horror stories of Shelbys consuming far more.
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