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      11-18-2022, 01:36 AM   #67
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I’ve given up trying to understand what’s happening with Bitcoin/ Ether. My investment has dropped by 60% since I bought. Do I cut my losses now, while it still has some value, or wait for it to pick back up again one day?
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      11-18-2022, 06:30 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
What's the current thinking on how Mr. Bankman-Fried's babe-in-the-woods act is going to play out?

I read yesterday his take on the current circumstances in which he finds himself and he sounded like a nine-year old going "Mom! Mom...whaaaa!?!" Given the hole he's in, that was rather entertaining.

Who are the adults in the room - does anyone know?
There are some very wealthy and powerful people who lost a lot of money "investing" with SBF.

Ergo, there will be a lot of attorneys and eager prosecutors who are going to rip this kid a new one.

SBF's whole schtick of "altruistic capitalism" and "doing the right thing" will rank right up there with the former Nazis who argued "I was just following orders" at the Nuremberg trials.
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      11-18-2022, 10:06 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
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      11-19-2022, 08:24 PM   #70
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Just playing to the thread title,

I put very little money ($60 total) in at the end of 2017. I lost the login info. I had to jump through hoops I did not agree with to get back in. I avoided everything until I got an email that the account would be permanently closed. So I had to do the stupid hoops.

My conclusion is this. Crypto is not an investment. It is something that needs to be traded just like stock for it to make money, or multiply ... not sure what the correct terms is for ultimately fake things. Investing is something that is passive on your end. Trading is active on your end.
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      11-19-2022, 08:49 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by iminhell1 View Post
Just playing to the thread title,

I put very little money ($60 total) in at the end of 2017. I lost the login info. I had to jump through hoops I did not agree with to get back in. I avoided everything until I got an email that the account would be permanently closed. So I had to do the stupid hoops.

My conclusion is this. Crypto is not an investment. It is something that needs to be traded just like stock for it to make money, or multiply ... not sure what the correct terms is for ultimately fake things. Investing is something that is passive on your end. Trading is active on your end.
This is actually a very solid analogy.
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      11-19-2022, 11:02 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell1 View Post
Just playing to the thread title,

I put very little money ($60 total) in at the end of 2017. I lost the login info. I had to jump through hoops I did not agree with to get back in. I avoided everything until I got an email that the account would be permanently closed. So I had to do the stupid hoops.

My conclusion is this. Crypto is not an investment. It is something that needs to be traded just like stock for it to make money, or multiply ... not sure what the correct terms is for ultimately fake things. Investing is something that is passive on your end. Trading is active on your end.
I always like to hear the perspective of the retail customers, the outsiders, or people with interest. One of the common things they all share is they always leave their money on exchanges instead of transferring it to a hard/soft wallet. Not quite sure why. We have in a saying in the space, which is "not your keys, not your wallet".

I encourage you to trade it if you can, preferably on a decentralized exchange. These CEX's are nothing more than onramps or offramps. As for the time to buy, I don't think we've seen full capitulation yet.
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      11-20-2022, 03:05 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by RichF90M5C View Post
I've given up trying to understand what's happening with Bitcoin/ Ether. My investment has dropped by 60% since I bought. Do I cut my losses now, while it still has some value, or wait for it to pick back up again one day?
Crypto is not an investment. It's gabling. And yes, every market needs panicsellers.
„Cryptos are too volatile, they say" Same applies to the stockmarket. Big stocks swing/crash like shitcoins.

I had to learn it too. Buy when everything is crashing. DCA the weeks/months after the crash. Sell, in bullmarket. Not all at once! Sell on the way up. Then, when everyone and they're grannies buy Bitcoin and dream of Lambos and financial freedom.

And never, NEVER EVER leverage trade!

I'm buying now and the next months, until the bullmarket really takes off. It will happen again, in 1-2 years.

I'm not a financial advisor, so this is not financial advice. Just how I play it.
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      11-20-2022, 03:17 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x622 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell1 View Post
Just playing to the thread title,

I put very little money ($60 total) in at the end of 2017. I lost the login info. I had to jump through hoops I did not agree with to get back in. I avoided everything until I got an email that the account would be permanently closed. So I had to do the stupid hoops.

My conclusion is this. Crypto is not an investment. It is something that needs to be traded just like stock for it to make money, or multiply ... not sure what the correct terms is for ultimately fake things. Investing is something that is passive on your end. Trading is active on your end.
I always like to hear the perspective of the retail customers, the outsiders, or people with interest. One of the common things they all share is they always leave their money on exchanges instead of transferring it to a hard/soft wallet. Not quite sure why. We have in a saying in the space, which is "not your keys, not your wallet".

I encourage you to trade it if you can, preferably on a decentralized exchange. These CEX's are nothing more than onramps or offramps. As for the time to buy, I don't think we've seen full capitulation yet.
Agree!
Even if the whole market seems fu**ed bc of FTX and it's domino effect, for me it's THE time to stack up. Shit has to be washed out. Regulation on Central Exchanges (CEX) are needed, to protect us dumb „traders".
I use CEXs solely as on/offramps and move the coins immediately to hardware wallets.

Hey, banks are like CEX. They are not save at all. Ever checked, how much of your funds in your bank accounts are insured? I'm at risk here too. In most swiss banks, there are only 100k insured. So I need to take action here.

Again, not financial advice.
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      11-20-2022, 03:24 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x622 View Post
FTT? FTX was an exchange..

https://pacer-documents.s3.amazonaws...2020648197.pdf

Here's some docs from the incoming CEO. He was the guy who untangled the Enron fuckups. Really good read.
FTX_17Nov22.pdf (Nov 17, 2022) (PDF - 30 pages):
"I, John J. Ray III, hereby declare under penalty of perjury as follows:
1. - 3. (...)
4. I have over 40 years of legal and restructuring experience. I have been the Chief Restructuring Officer or Chief Executive Officer in several of the largest corporate failures in history. I have supervised situations involving allegations of criminal activity and malfeasance (Enron). I have supervised situations involving novel financial structures (Enron and Residential Capital) and cross-border asset recovery and maximization (Nortel and Overseas Shipholding). Nearly every situation in which I have been involved has been characterized by defects of some sort in internal controls, regulatory compliance, human resources and systems integrity.
5. Never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occurred here.
From compromised systems integrity and faulty regulatory oversight abroad, to the concentration of control in the hands of a very small group of inexperienced, unsophisticated and potentially compromised individuals, this situation is unprecedented."

"Sam Bankman-Fried vs. The Match King" (Nov 13, 2022)
(interesting read about also the greatest swindler of the 1920s, whose massive fraud partially contributed to the creation of the SEC in 1933-1934):
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/202...he-match-king/
"One of the hardest things to do as a human being is to keep your wits about you when everyone else is seemingly going mad.
This is especially true when there’s an enigmatic figurehead overseeing the operation. (...)
FTX seems to have started out as a legitimate crypto exchange. And when losses started piling up at his trading arm the misallocation of resources went to ludicrous speed.
This is a classic example of too much, too soon.
Too much money. Too much control. Too much leverage. Too much attention. Too much power. Too much everything.
The way I see it, there are two types of charlatans.
Type I charlatans are the visionaries who are more or less sincere but wind up ruining their followers anyway because they take their ideas to the extreme or fail to account for the unintended consequences of their actions.
These false-positive charlatans are so passionate that it becomes difficult for their victims to see any downside. When you combine intellect, passion, and people in search of money and/or power, it’s easy to become blinded by the potential risks.
Once a Type I charlatan gets a taste of success, it’s tough to pull in the reins when things go wrong.
Type II charlatans are the out-and-out fraudsters who blatantly set out to take people for all they’re worth. These hucksters are only interested in making as much money as possible and don’t care who gets hurt in the process.
These charlatans are false negatives because they lie to persuade you to part with your money. It’s difficult to see through this type of charlatan because they know exactly how to sell you. They understand human behavior and tell you exactly what you want to hear.
The strange thing about both Kreuger and Bankman-Fried is it seems they each started out as Type I charlatans and ended up Type II once they got in too deep.
When technology moves forward by leaps and bounds, as it did in the first part of the 20th century, people prefer betting on the future more than betting on the past.
It appears the same thing happened with crypto."

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"Sam Bankman-Fried, Elizabeth Holmes And 9 Other Epic Billionaire Blowups":
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimam...naire-blowups/
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      11-20-2022, 10:47 AM   #76
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I don't listen to millionaires that understand how to use debt while at the same time telling everyone else debt is evil.
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      11-21-2022, 06:36 AM   #77
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I don't listen to millionaires that understand how to use debt while at the same time telling everyone else debt is evil.
I don't follow Ramsey, but will say this: his advice is aimed at the 90% who really do not understand "capital" and how to use it properly. When he says, "debt is bad", he's making a blanket statement to warn that 90% who, frankly, don't understand that concept and who will absolutely be better served avoiding debt.
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      11-21-2022, 01:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by tgrundke View Post
I don't follow Ramsey, but will say this: his advice is aimed at the 90% who really do not understand "capital" and how to use it properly. When he says, "debt is bad", he's making a blanket statement to warn that 90% who, frankly, don't understand that concept and who will absolutely be better served avoiding debt.
So maybe he should teach people how to use it to their advantage vs just saying it's always bad.

He's a salesman, nothing less, nothing more.
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      11-22-2022, 12:15 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by tgrundke View Post
I don't follow Ramsey, but will say this: his advice is aimed at the 90% who really do not understand "capital" and how to use it properly. When he says, "debt is bad", he's making a blanket statement to warn that 90% who, frankly, don't understand that concept and who will absolutely be better served avoiding debt.
This is very true and he has saved a lot of people from getting out of debt and/or getting into deep debt. Let's face it, a majority of Americans are terrible with managing their finances and living beyond their means. It doesn't matter if you make $20K a year to $200K a year. A majority of them live paycheck to paycheck and carry large amounts of loan and CC debt.

And let's be real here, you have to know how to work the system to "use debt" to a real advantage. For me personally, I'm not interested in that. I like having no mortgage, CC debt, etc. I sleep much better at night knowing everything is mine.
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      11-22-2022, 07:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrundke View Post
I don't follow Ramsey, but will say this: his advice is aimed at the 90% who really do not understand "capital" and how to use it properly. When he says, "debt is bad", he's making a blanket statement to warn that 90% who, frankly, don't understand that concept and who will absolutely be better served avoiding debt.
So maybe he should teach people how to use it to their advantage vs just saying it's always bad.

He's a salesman, nothing less, nothing more.
Isn't he also a Christian faith based guy where he views debt as inherently bad from the religious standpoint?
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      11-22-2022, 07:39 PM   #81
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Isn't he also a Christian faith based guy where he views debt as inherently bad from the religious standpoint?
That I don't know, I'm not a religious person.
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      11-23-2022, 03:07 PM   #82
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Isn't he also a Christian faith based guy where he views debt as inherently bad from the religious standpoint?
Yes, he is lets Christianity interweave with his financial preachings and it's annoying.

His show would miss the mark if he tried to explain to people how to leverage debt to work for you because most people in this country aren't that smart when it comes to money management. He helps a ton of people address their money issues and get out of bad debt. He captures are way larger crowd and makes a ton more money doing that.
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      11-23-2022, 07:34 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrundke View Post
I don't follow Ramsey, but will say this: his advice is aimed at the 90% who really do not understand "capital" and how to use it properly. When he says, "debt is bad", he's making a blanket statement to warn that 90% who, frankly, don't understand that concept and who will absolutely be better served avoiding debt.
This is very true and he has saved a lot of people from getting out of debt and/or getting into deep debt. Let's face it, a majority of Americans are terrible with managing their finances and living beyond their means. It doesn't matter if you make $20K a year to $200K a year. A majority of them live paycheck to paycheck and carry large amounts of loan and CC debt.

And let's be real here, you have to know how to work the system to "use debt" to a real advantage. For me personally, I'm not interested in that. I like having no mortgage, CC debt, etc. I sleep much better at night knowing everything is mine.
I'll echo that. Everything I own is paid off. CC debt baffles me, how a person can have $50k saved but carry $10K in CC debt at 25% interest is pure insanity. Talk about having no clue about how money works.
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      11-27-2022, 07:58 AM   #84
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I'll echo that. Everything I own is paid off. CC debt baffles me, how a person can have $50k saved but carry $10K in CC debt at 25% interest is pure insanity. Talk about having no clue about how money works.
Isn't that a tautology? If it isn't paid off, you don't own it. The bank does. Right?

But, for example, even if you have paid off the mortgage on your home, you don't really own it. Because if you don't pay your property taxes, you no longer have your property.
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      11-28-2022, 09:09 PM   #85
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The name of this thread is a dichotomy
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      11-28-2022, 10:52 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Isn't that a tautology? If it isn't paid off, you don't own it. The bank does. Right?

But, for example, even if you have paid off the mortgage on your home, you don't really own it. Because if you don't pay your property taxes, you no longer have your property.
You own it, you're just being an idiot and risk potential foreclosure and the property being sold at auction at which you get the remainder after fees, interest, etc. That's a pretty rare thing to happen too, BTW. Same stuff could happen with your car, your boat, etc.
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      11-28-2022, 11:59 PM   #87
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I imagine it’s possible that ultimately crypto will be worth what it costs to mine it, plus or minus things like whatever speculative value the market attributes to it as the result of current economic conditions.

So, no. I don’t see it as a long term investment.
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      11-30-2022, 09:22 AM   #88
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Bitcoin ‘rarely’ used for legal transactions, on ‘road to irrelevance’, say European Central Bank officials

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...2ee04a7f39d73f
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