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      06-12-2019, 10:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by lsturbointeg View Post
Any suggestions for one to replace the thermostat guys? I've seen them at Home Depot but would like recommendations for those who've had them for awhile now with good results and easy to use
I have nest as I've said no complaints. If you don't have a c wire it's pretty much the only choice as the others require it to power the thermostat. I don't have a c wire and the nest hasn't had any problem.
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      06-12-2019, 10:14 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by lsturbointeg View Post
Any suggestions for one to replace the thermostat guys? I've seen them at Home Depot but would like recommendations for those who've had them for awhile now with good results and easy to use
I've had my Honeywell smart thermostat at my vacation home for about 7 years now. Not one lick of an issue. If you're just looking for a thermostat you can program/control remotely, I would seriously take a look at Honeywell. The added benefit is you don't have Amazon or Google taking permanent residence in your home.

Another option is Ecobee.

Personally, I hate everything being cloud based for these smart devices. I can figure out how to set up my network to provide remote access. That's why I refuse to use any of the cloud based security cameras from Ring and the like. Very happy with my Hikvision equipment and soon will be buying some LTS equipment.
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      06-12-2019, 10:16 AM   #25
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I'd look for one that displays THE FUCKING TEMPERATURE, as in both actual and what it is set to. 90% of the fuckers SHOW THE FUCKING TIME.

Spare me. Idiots.
The Honeywell thermostat I have does all that (current temp, set temp, and time) but will also show what the outside temperature is based on what you program in as your zip code.
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      06-12-2019, 05:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I'd look for one that displays THE FUCKING TEMPERATURE, as in both actual and what it is set to. 90% of the fuckers SHOW THE FUCKING TIME.

Spare me. Idiots.
The Honeywell thermostat I have does all that (current temp, set temp, and time) but will also show what the outside temperature is based on what you program in as your zip code.
For some reason my nest app only shows outside temp when I turn on the AC or I guess whenever the AC is on :
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      06-12-2019, 06:24 PM   #27
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"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

For a dang good reason - if the Government can spy/store/analyze, they will.

And spy/store/analyze they do -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

The 4th Amendment says the Government can't force you to give up your deep, dark secrets without a warrant, but if you voluntarily give the details of your private life to the Government in the name of convenience, well, allrighty then.

Me? I personally don't do "cloud" anything. "Cloud" is just a fancy term for somebody else's computer. A "somebody else" you will never meet, you don't know and probably don't even know where they are.

Having said that - I do have a smart home, well, sorta. I custom designed mine. I'm using an Allen-Bradley SLC500. My attic vents open/close with preset temp limits, same with my foundation vents. I water the lawn, clean the pool, drain the hot tub, all with the push of a button and no internet, no "cloud". Motion sensors inside the house keep track of me and if the outside sensors get tripped while I am inside, it tells me the pizza is here.
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      06-12-2019, 06:50 PM   #28
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For some reason my nest app only shows outside temp when I turn on the AC or I guess whenever the AC is on :
The Honeywell thermostat is much larger than the Nest thermostat. So based on screen real estate, the Honeywell can display more. And all that information is displayed regardless of whether the system is on cool or heat mode. I also see the strength of what the thermostat sees as the wireless signal strength from my wireless access point. That same information is also presented on the smart phone app sans the wireless signal strength. Not sure if the Nest app does this.
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      06-12-2019, 08:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
For some reason my nest app only shows outside temp when I turn on the AC or I guess whenever the AC is on :
The Honeywell thermostat is much larger than the Nest thermostat. So based on screen real estate, the Honeywell can display more. And all that information is displayed regardless of whether the system is on cool or heat mode. I also see the strength of what the thermostat sees as the wireless signal strength from my wireless access point. That same information is also presented on the smart phone app sans the wireless signal strength. Not sure if the Nest app does this.
I've had great results with nest. I also have the doorbell cam/intercom and the smoke and co detector. They are all flawless. If the CO detector detects CO it can tell the thermostat to turn off the air to prevent circulation of CO and buy you some time. Also all the smoke detectors can talk to each other and simultaneously announce which room has smoke. The list goes on. The display is pretty clear you can see it from across the room or using the mobile app or web interface on desktop. The screen is smaller but it has all the info I need that I can see across the room and is customizable.
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      06-12-2019, 10:15 PM   #30
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First- I've been a sales executive in the consumer electronics (mostly specialty/limited-distribution AV brands) segment since 2002. Smart home technology has been my exclusive focus since late last year, as that's when I joined the North American team at Loxone. Call me biased, but I genuinely believe Loxone is providing an experience at least a generation ahead of every other smart home (aka: automation) system available. Life is literally easier when living in a Loxone Real Smart Home.

Let me know if I can help answer any questions.

www.loxone.com
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      06-13-2019, 08:16 AM   #31
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First- I've been a sales executive in the consumer electronics (mostly specialty/limited-distribution AV brands) segment since 2002. Smart home technology has been my exclusive focus since late last year, as that's when I joined the North American team at Loxone. Call me biased, but I genuinely believe Loxone is providing an experience at least a generation ahead of every other smart home (aka: automation) system available. Life is literally easier when living in a Loxone Real Smart Home.

Let me know if I can help answer any questions.

www.loxone.com
Curius why you think Loxone is so advanced? What does it offer that Savant, Crestron and Control4 dont? I browsed the site and really could make much out of what was unique. Lots of "No gimmick" ads that honestly seem like a gimmick.
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      06-13-2019, 08:19 AM   #32
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IOT devices and the word "security" do not belong in the same sentence. If you really care about security, you wouldn't go down this path. If you are ok with sacrificing security for automation, then like others have said, ensure it works locally without internet and disable any remote management tools.
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      06-13-2019, 08:41 AM   #33
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Curius why you think Loxone is so advanced? What does it offer that Savant, Crestron and Control4 dont? I browsed the site and really could make much out of what was unique. Lots of "No gimmick" ads that honestly seem like a gimmick.
I'd be interested too. I'm at this stage planning to put Savant into my home later this year but am open to better options.
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      06-13-2019, 08:57 AM   #34
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IOT devices and the word "security" do not belong in the same sentence. If you really care about security, you wouldn't go down this path. If you are ok with sacrificing security for automation, then like others have said, ensure it works locally without internet and disable any remote management tools.
I'm going to elaborate in a separate post, but your information never leaves your home with Loxone. Actually, Loxone's doesn't need the Internet at all (its only used for app control from outside the home). This is part of the reason Loxone is the go-to solution for homes operating "off the grid."
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      06-13-2019, 09:03 AM   #35
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Sonos is amazing imo!
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      06-13-2019, 09:22 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
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Originally Posted by Fliplegend View Post
IOT devices and the word "security" do not belong in the same sentence. If you really care about security, you wouldn't go down this path. If you are ok with sacrificing security for automation, then like others have said, ensure it works locally without internet and disable any remote management tools.
I'm going to elaborate in a separate post, but your information never leaves your home with Loxone. Actually, Loxone's doesn't need the Internet at all (its only used for app control from outside the home). This is part of the reason Loxone is the go-to solution for homes operating "off the grid."
Please do. Thanks! Always interested in new tech. I would be very curious in how well 3rd party integration is handled. For instance, for lighting how well will it integrate with Lutron Homeworks or Ra2. I see Loxone has its own panelized lighting but for many reasons Lutron would be preferable to many. How about pool integration, shades, etc?
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      06-13-2019, 10:00 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Curius why you think Loxone is so advanced? What does it offer that Savant, Crestron and Control4 don't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinonz View Post
I'd be interested too. I'm at this stage planning to put Savant into my home later this year but am open to better options.
First, I am extremely fluent in all the systems sold in the US. This includes Crestron, Savant, C4, AMX, URC, RTi, etc.. The main differentiator is these are more accurately defined as "control systems," where their design goal is to "integrate," or to basically become a remote control for mostly third-party components. A typical Savant or C4 project would say, integrate a Ring doorbell, a Nest thermostat, Lutron lighting, etc.. Additionally these American-style control systems derive themselves from AV, so they put a strong emphasis on controlling third-party media devices like TVs, AV receivers, media boxes (Apple TV and the like).

Loxone is completely different. Instead of being a control system, we are more accurately described as a true "automation system."

The design goal for a Loxone Real Smart Home is to improve your life by autonomously handling ~50,000 tasks per year for you. Besides delivering a true improvement in your life, it also saves your most-valuable resource... Your time.

For a moment, think about the automotive industry. in the 1990s, cars didn't leave the dealer with a lot of creature comforts. It was commonplace to bring your car to a shop to put in a third-party audio system, perhaps a third-party alarm with remote door unlocking/locking, and maybe remote starting. You manually turned on/off your headlights. You manually turned on/off your wipers. Even the aftermarket alarm system required you to take your keys out of your pocket to hit the fob to unlock your doors or open your trunk. You likely manually controlled your HVAC system too.

This is the current state of the home building industry. Unless you have a custom home built for you, builders expect that you're going to add "aftermarket" smart home systems after the sale. We at Loxone are working to change this reality. At least 50% of my time is spent meeting with architects, builders, designers, etc., to get them to bring their homes into the 21st Century by incorporating smart technology in their designs.

A Loxone Real Smart Home automates your lighting, HVAC, energy system (solar/wind generation, battery storage), is a much, much more advanced way than those control systems. This brings efficiency and higher performance. You can think of what we're doing is akin to adding automated systems to your home that you already take for granted in the automotive space.

Let's talk a couple of specific examples of our unmatched system intelligence ...

HVAC: A Loxone system doesn't use a conventional thermostat. We measure temperature and humidity at every control pad (light switch). We then use a relay in our MiniServer (main processor) to activate/deactivate the air handler. This forgoes a separate thermostat you have to buy and put someplace. Additionally, we use the occupancy sensors we already are using for lighting to tell us if we have to send HVAC to a particular room/zone. You may be thinking... ZONE? Yup! We offer motorized dampers that go on the HVAC ductwork that allows a single air handler to be divided up into multiple zones on HVAC. This provides a computer-controlled distribution of HVAC where it's needed and not where it isn't. Additionally, we often incorporate window/door sensors to prevent sending head/AC into a room with an open window.

Window Shades: A Loxone system knows the longitude and latitude of the home, so it knows where it is on the globe. When we incorporate shades, we tell the system the direction the shade roller is facing in relation to North. This information can then be used to automate shades in relation to the position of the Sun. As the Sun moves across the horizon, shades can autonomously move to block the Sun. Additionally, the same occupency sensor mentioned above can keep the shades down if nobody is in a room.

Electric Vehicle Charging: Loxone has an exclusive agreement with BMW that brings enhanced functionality when BMW's best charging station is used, but even if you own a Tesla or Leaf, we bring advanced capabilities. With BMW's charger, we know the specific EV user has arrived, so the home can tailor itself to that particular user. I think of this as the EV charging equivalent to driver profiles automatically selected by a particular keyfob. The difference being the home adapts to the specific user. With any EV charger, we can set rules around conditions. Perhaps you only want to charge your EV when generating power from your solar panels?

Environmental Awareness: Want to automatically retract your motorized awning if the wind picks up? No problem! How about we lower some shades if it gets really hot outside? We can easily do that.

This only scratches the surface. There is so much more, but I have to run to a meeting. I'll pick this up later.
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      06-13-2019, 10:00 AM   #38
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For cloud devices which I think are where everything is headed you need to use a strong password and maybe 2factor authentication. This will help prevent anyone accessing your account.
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      06-13-2019, 10:18 AM   #39
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For cloud devices which I think are where everything is headed you need to use a strong password and maybe 2factor authentication. This will help prevent anyone accessing your account.
The flaw in this (beyond privacy) is you lose functionality when you lose communication with the cloud.
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      06-13-2019, 10:26 AM   #40
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For cloud devices which I think are where everything is headed you need to use a strong password and maybe 2factor authentication. This will help prevent anyone accessing your account.
The flaw in this (beyond privacy) is you lose functionality when you lose communication with the cloud.
Yes but it seems that's where everything is headed. I do have an older d link camera that records to a local dvr. If the internet goes down it will still work but not my nest doorbell. There is a doorbell made by a company called la view that can also record to a local dvr so it shouldn't need an internet connection. My garage cam has an sd card slot so that should work as well if I use it but cloud storage means the footage isn't lost if the as card or dvr is stolen.
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      06-13-2019, 10:38 AM   #41
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
For cloud devices which I think are where everything is headed you need to use a strong password and maybe 2factor authentication. This will help prevent anyone accessing your account.
The flaw in this (beyond privacy) is you lose functionality when you lose communication with the cloud.
Yes but it seems that's where everything is headed. I do have an older d link camera that records to a local dvr. If the internet goes down it will still work but not my nest doorbell. There is a doorbell made by a company called la view that can also record to a local dvr so it shouldn't need an internet connection. My garage cam has an sd card slot so that should work as well if I use it but cloud storage means the footage isn't lost if the as card or dvr is stolen.
A doorbell is one thing, but I wouldn't want the proper operation of my critical systems (lighting, HVAC, security components) to be reliant on a solid Internet connection. That's a recipe for disaster.

As for direction, I guess I have a different perspective. Loxone is the most-advanced system available and it doesn't rely on the Internet for anything other than off-site app control. We only even need a LAN for in-home app control. In other words- your entire LAN can go down and a Loxone Real Smart Home can still fully function. That is completely unique. The side benefit is you don't need to invest in better network components like you would with a system relying on the LAN for communication.
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      06-13-2019, 10:50 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Curius why you think Loxone is so advanced? What does it offer that Savant, Crestron and Control4 don't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinonz View Post
I'd be interested too. I'm at this stage planning to put Savant into my home later this year but am open to better options.
First, I am extremely fluent in all the systems sold in the US. This includes Crestron, Savant, C4, AMX, URC, RTi, etc.. The main differentiator is these are more accurately defined as "control systems," where their design goal is to "integrate," or to basically become a remote control for mostly third-party components. A typical Savant or C4 project would say, integrate a Ring doorbell, a Nest thermostat, Lutron lighting, etc.. Additionally these American-style control systems derive themselves from AV, so they put a strong emphasis on controlling third-party media devices like TVs, AV receivers, media boxes (Apple TV and the like).

Loxone is completely different. Instead of being a control system, we are more accurately described as a true "automation system."

The design goal for a Loxone Real Smart Home is to improve your life by autonomously handling ~50,000 tasks per year for you. Besides delivering a true improvement in your life, it also saves your most-valuable resource... Your time.

For a moment, think about the automotive industry. in the 1990s, cars didn't leave the dealer with a lot of creature comforts. It was commonplace to bring your car to a shop to put in a third-party audio system, perhaps a third-party alarm with remote door unlocking/locking, and maybe remote starting. You manually turned on/off your headlights. You manually turned on/off your wipers. Even the aftermarket alarm system required you to take your keys out of your pocket to hit the fob to unlock your doors or open your trunk. You likely manually controlled your HVAC system too.

This is the current state of the home building industry. Unless you have a custom home built for you, builders expect that you're going to add "aftermarket" smart home systems after the sale. We at Loxone are working to change this reality. At least 50% of my time is spent meeting with architects, builders, designers, etc., to get them to bring their homes into the 21st Century by incorporating smart technology in their designs.

A Loxone Real Smart Home automates your lighting, HVAC, energy system (solar/wind generation, battery storage), is a much, much more advanced way than those control systems. This brings efficiency and higher performance. You can think of what we're doing is akin to adding automated systems to your home that you already take for granted in the automotive space.

Let's talk a couple of specific examples of our unmatched system intelligence ...

HVAC: A Loxone system doesn't use a conventional thermostat. We measure temperature and humidity at every control pad (light switch). We then use a relay in our MiniServer (main processor) to activate/deactivate the air handler. This forgoes a separate thermostat you have to buy and put someplace. Additionally, we use the occupancy sensors we already are using for lighting to tell us if we have to send HVAC to a particular room/zone. You may be thinking... ZONE? Yup! We offer motorized dampers that go on the HVAC ductwork that allows a single air handler to be divided up into multiple zones on HVAC. This provides a computer-controlled distribution of HVAC where it's needed and not where it isn't. Additionally, we often incorporate window/door sensors to prevent sending head/AC into a room with an open window.

Window Shades: A Loxone system knows the longitude and latitude of the home, so it knows where it is on the globe. When we incorporate shades, we tell the system the direction the shade roller is facing in relation to North. This information can then be used to automate shades in relation to the position of the Sun. As the Sun moves across the horizon, shades can autonomously move to block the Sun. Additionally, the same occupency sensor mentioned above can keep the shades down if nobody is in a room.

Electric Vehicle Charging: Loxone has an exclusive agreement with BMW that brings enhanced functionality when BMW's best charging station is used, but even if you own a Tesla or Leaf, we bring advanced capabilities. With BMW's charger, we know the specific EV user has arrived, so the home can tailor itself to that particular user. I think of this as the EV charging equivalent to driver profiles automatically selected by a particular keyfob. The difference being the home adapts to the specific user. With any EV charger, we can set rules around conditions. Perhaps you only want to charge your EV when generating power from your solar panels?

Environmental Awareness: Want to automatically retract your motorized awning if the wind picks up? No problem! How about we lower some shades if it gets really hot outside? We can easily do that.

This only scratches the surface. There is so much more, but I have to run to a meeting. I'll pick this up later.
Thanks. Your post reads a bit like the marketing materials. "50k tasks per year" and "most advanced system." There is nothing unique about what the materials and post describe. Example, occupancy sensors can do exactly what you describe with in terms of controlling lighting and hvac with Savant, Crestron and Lutron. I am interested in real world applications.

For instance, say you have a Jandy or Pentair pool controller. Can you natively control? Does Loxone make its own pool controller?

Another example. Sure you can control your own lighting but i would be reluctant to use a relatively new company for such a vital system when Lutron had robust, reliable systems and its much more likely they will be around and support in 10-20 years.

Really just trying to understand how this is any different or just marketing spin. No offense, honestly interested. Also, to address the post below none of the aforementioned automation systems require internet connection either.
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      06-13-2019, 10:51 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
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For cloud devices which I think are where everything is headed you need to use a strong password and maybe 2factor authentication. This will help prevent anyone accessing your account.
The flaw in this (beyond privacy) is you lose functionality when you lose communication with the cloud.
Yes but it seems that's where everything is headed. I do have an older d link camera that records to a local dvr. If the internet goes down it will still work but not my nest doorbell. There is a doorbell made by a company called la view that can also record to a local dvr so it shouldn't need an internet connection. My garage cam has an sd card slot so that should work as well if I use it but cloud storage means the footage isn't lost if the as card or dvr is stolen.
A doorbell is one thing, but I wouldn't want the proper operation of my critical systems (lighting, HVAC, security components) to be reliant on a solid Internet connection. That's a recipe for disaster.

As for direction, I guess I have a different perspective. Loxone is the most-advanced system available and it doesn't rely on the Internet for anything other than off-site app control. We only even need a LAN for in-home app control. In other words- your entire LAN can go down and a Loxone Real Smart Home can still fully function. That is completely unique. The side benefit is you don't need to invest in better network components like you would with a system relying on the LAN for communication.
The thermostat doesn't need an internet connection except for software updates and operating via the app. You can use the controls on the thermostat itself without an internet connection just like any thermostat. It doesn't even need a WiFi connection to communicate with the smoke detector as it uses a separate mesh network so in case of fire where the internet goes down the smoke detectors can still talk to each other and the thermostat. I don't think the app will work on a LAN with no internet though, unlike my dlink camera.
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      06-13-2019, 11:18 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobiggens View Post
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

For a dang good reason - if the Government can spy/store/analyze, they will.

And spy/store/analyze they do -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

The 4th Amendment says the Government can't force you to give up your deep, dark secrets without a warrant, but if you voluntarily give the details of your private life to the Government in the name of convenience, well, allrighty then.

Me? I personally don't do "cloud" anything. "Cloud" is just a fancy term for somebody else's computer. A "somebody else" you will never meet, you don't know and probably don't even know where they are.

Having said that - I do have a smart home, well, sorta. I custom designed mine. I'm using an Allen-Bradley SLC500. My attic vents open/close with preset temp limits, same with my foundation vents. I water the lawn, clean the pool, drain the hot tub, all with the push of a button and no internet, no "cloud". Motion sensors inside the house keep track of me and if the outside sensors get tripped while I am inside, it tells me the pizza is here.
To your 4th amendment statement about the government can not force you give it up freely if you do not you exercise your right to privacy . I am waiting for some government lawyer to argue you do not have any expectation of privacy since you knowing and freely gave third parties free access to your personal information. Police can not listen to what you said in your home without a Warrant, but they can listen to everything you said in public all for the sole reason you have no expectation of privacy in public space or a space which you do not own or control.

There is already case law on companies trying to go after someone for sharing trade secrets. The court have said unless the company can show they taken every precaution to protect the information they can not go after someone for share information if the company did not have history of doing everything they could to protect it.

You can see someone in government saying you have no reasonable expectation of privacy since Google knows, and Alexia knows, Nest Knows everything you are doing in your house and especially in the bedroom and you openly invited them in so why would you expect to have privacy. We already have the government fighting to gain access to your locked iPhone. and they want to see every bad thing you make have recorded on your iPhone.

Last edited by Maestro; 06-13-2019 at 12:10 PM..
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